• Bruce Davis • 2021

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: We're on the record.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Good morning, everyone. This is the 32nd Subsequent Life Parole Consideration Hearing for Mr. Bruce Davis, CDCR number B41079 who is present in the BPH Hearing Room. Today, is Friday, January 22nd, 2021, and the time is 8:37 A.M. We are conducting this hearing by video conference. Mr. Davis, can you hear and see me?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I can.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: If at any time that changes, please alert me so that we can make the necessary adjustments. For the record, I can hear and see you.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Deputy Commissioner, can you hear and see Mr. Davis?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes, I can. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: This hearing is being audio recorded. So, for the purpose of voice identification, I will identify the participant. And when I do, each person is asked to state your full name and spell your last name. I will go first. I am Deborah San Juan, S-A-N J-U-A-N. The Presiding Commissioner video conferencing. Deputy Commissioner, please identify yourself.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I’m Neal Chambers, C-H- A-M-B-E-R-S Deputy Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you, Mr. Davis, please identify yourself. Spell your last name and give your CDCR number.

INMATE DAVIS: I’m Bruce Davis, B41079.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And spell Davis for me.

INMATE DAVIS: D-A-V-I-S.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you. And would Mr. Davis' Attorney, please identify yourself.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Michael Beckman, B-E-C-K-M-A-N, Attorney for Mr. Davis.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you. There is no Deputy District Attorney from Los Angeles County on this hearing. Um, we do have the family members of the victims. First, Ms. Debra Tate, can you identify yourself and spell your name?

VNOK TATE: Yes, my name is Debra Tate, T-A-T-E. I am appointed spokesperson for Hinman family.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And Ms. Martley please identify yourself, and your relationship?

VNOK MARTLEY: I am Kay Hinman Martley, M-A-R-T-L-E- Y. My cousin was Gary Hinman.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And Mr. Campion, please spell your last name, and identify yourself.

VNOK CAMPION: My name is Chris Campion C-A-M-P-I-O- N. And I'm a support person for Kay Hinman Martley.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Um, there are Correctional Officers in the room with Mr. Davis who may be relieved from time-to-time. Mr. Davis, were you able to hear and see everyone?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. We're going to take a brief break to check the quality of the recording, and ensure that each party can be heard.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. The time is 8:40.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right, we're recording.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Mr. Davis, is located at San Quentin State Prison in San Quentin, California. He was received by CDCR on April 21st, 1972 from Los Angeles County under case number A267861. He was committed to CDCR for first-degree murder, and that was two counts, and criminal conspiracy, and sentenced to a term of seven years to life. Mr. Davis, qualified for elderly parole consideration in October 5th, 2002. All right regarding the crime, um, a description of the facts of the crime. Bruce Davis was a member of the Charles Manson Cult known as the Family who lived together at Spahn Ranch in the summer of 1969. In July, 1969, Mr. Mason, and a group of family members, including Mr. Davis discussed ways to raise money to relocate their group to the desert. They identified an acquaintance Gary Hinman as potential source of funds. On July 26th, 1969 Mr. Davis dropped off three family members at Mr. Hinman’s residence. Two days later, the group of three called Mr. Manson from the Hinman’s house and reported that Mr. Hinman was not cooperating. Mr. Manson and Mr. Davis returned to him in his house, when they arrived Mr. Hinman had already been struck with a gun. During the struggle the gun had discharged. Mr. Davis took the gun and pointed it at Mr. Hinman — Manson sliced Mr. Hinman’s face open with a sword cutting him from the left ear to his chin. Mr. Davis and Mr. Manson drove off in Mr. Hinman’s vehicle. The other three family members remained at Mr. Hinman’s house for two more days while Mr. Hinman were bleeding. Robert who solely eventually stabbed Mr. Hinman in the chest and smothered him with a pillow, killing him. Inside the home, Mr. Hinman’s blood — in using Mr. Hinman’s blood the group wrote the words political piggy and drew an animal paw print on the wall. Mr. Hinman’s decomposed body was found on July 31st, 1969. In August, 1969, Mr. Manson expressed his belief that David Shea who worked at a ranch — worked as a ranch hand at Spahn Ranch was a police informant, and was working with the neighbors to have the family removed from the ranch. Family members of Mr. Manson, Ms. — the family members Mr. Manson, Mr. Davis, Steve Grogan and Charles Watson lured Mr. Shea into a car with them. They drove Mr. Shea to a secluded area, and stabbed him multiple times, killing him. Mr. Davis had acknowledged that he used a knife to cut Mr. Shea from his collarbone to his armpit during the attack. Mr. Davis was arrested in December, 1970 after evading capture for more than a year. He was convicted of two counts of first- degree murder and criminal in conspiracy to commit murder and robbery. Now, as I've mentioned, this proceeding is being recorded as mandated by Penal Code section 3042(b) and will be transcribed as the official record of this hearing. No other recordings are authorized, including a recording available by video conference software. A violation of this provision may result in exclusion from this or future hearings. Mr. Davis, as this hearing is being conducted by video conference, I'm going to notify you of certain rights that you have and ensure you want to continue with this hearing. First, you have the right to be present at the hearing and meet with the Board of Parole Hearing Panel. Do you accept that this video conference satisfies this right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You also have the right to be represented by an Attorney at your parole consideration hearing. Do you accept that your Attorney's appearance by video conference, and your ability to have privileged communication with your Attorney by telephone satisfies this right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Mr. Davis, we are not here to reconsider the findings of the Trial and Appellate Courts, nor are we here to retry your case. The panel accepts as true findings, the findings of the courts. The purpose of today's hearing is to find out who you are today, and whether you would pose an unreasonable risk of danger to society if released. We’ll consider many factors, including your criminal history, your behavior, your programming since you came to prison, your parole plans if released, as well as the testimony that we hear today. After we have asked you our questions, the Attorneys will have an opportunity to ask clarifying questions and as today that would be just Mr. Beckman. And then Mr. Beckman can give a closing statement, which will be limited to 10 minutes each. After the closing statement, Mr. Davis can make a closing statement, and then any of our victims and witnesses who would like to make a closing statement they can. By law, Ms. Tate, Ms. Martley, and Mr. Campion are allowed to speak last before the panel goes into deliberation. Our expectation is that all parties to this hearing will treat one another with dignity and respect. Mr. Davis, I strongly encourage you to be completely open and honest with us today. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give at this hearing will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I do.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, thanks. Your date of birth is October 5th.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Commissioner, can I ask a question?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Um, you indicated earlier that Mr. Campion is a support person here. If that's correct he doesn't have the ability to speak at the end, so I want to know want to know how he's been designated for this.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, then, and he's here to support, okay, he does not speak that's a mistake on my part.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Um, okay, your date of birth is October 5th, 1942. You were 27 years old at the time of the crime. You are now 78. Your life term start date was April 21st, 1972. And you have been in prison for 48 years. Does that sound about right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Before proceeding further, we need to conduct a review under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Your BPH 1073 was dated January 8th, 2021 and it's been reviewed. Your reading level is noted to be 12.9. I also note that you have a high school diploma, and I noted that you spent a couple of years in college. According to our records, you require glasses. Did you bring your glasses, sir?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Very good. Um, there is also a magnifying glass somewhere on that table.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, there is.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You're currently in uh, Mental Health System as CCCMS. Is that right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Um, you're not in the Development Disable Program. Are you taking any psychotropic medications?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And any of the other medications that you're taking, did you take them either last night or this morning as prescribed?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Um, do you need any other accommodations today?

INMATE DAVIS: Not that I'm aware of.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. Deputy Commissioner Chambers, do you have anything else to add?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: No, Commissioner. You've covered them.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. Counsel, do you have any objections? Has his due process rights for this hearing been satisfied, and are you okay with us continuing on with this hearing?

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Well, I'm okay to continue on with the hearing. I want to note for Mr. Davis with regard to the ADA that he is awaiting a hip replacement for the second, and he may need to stretch a little bit more than normal, that's the only other accommodation I would request.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Let me also stipulate that I went over his pre-hearing rights with him, and his counselor did as well. And then I don’t have any issues with regard to the hearing ops um, — getting into this morning's proceedings.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. As far as needing the stretch that's fine just let me know. Sometimes I get going and I forget people need a break. So, you guys that goes for everyone, give me that wave okay? Um, and you wanted to state for the record Mr. Beckman, what your objections for the victims were because he is likely.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: I'm not going to bother with that. I was going to request it very simply. Um, if you decide to use confidential information any time during this hearing, including during deliberations that you will call me back and allow me to put objection out at that time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. Fair enough. Okay, I'm going to start off by reading the Governor’s last decision, I don't know if I'll read the whole thing, but I think what best to do today is to make sure that we do our best to address the Governor's concerns, because this was just written in November 2019, all right? So, this is from Governor Newsome in November, 2019. I acknowledge Mr. Davis has made efforts to improve himself in prison, and he has been disciplined only twice in nearly five decades of incarceration. He's earned several educational degrees in prison, including a Master's Degree and a Doctorate. Mr. Davis has participated in many self-help programs, including Alcoholics Anonymous, Anger Management, and Alternatives to Violence. He has donated to charity, and we see positive work ratings from his supervisors. I commend Mr. Davis, for taking these positive steps. I also note that Mr. Davis is now at the time, that 77 years old, although now we know he's 78, and that the psychologist who evaluated him in 2016, concluded that he is aged and he has shown less criminality and increased pro-social endeavors. However, these factors are outweighed by the negative factors that demonstrate he remains unsuitable for parole at this time. Mr. Davis is part of one of the most notorious “Criminal cults in California history”. He and his family members robbed and murdered and tortured and killed many victims in Southern California in 1969. During his time on the ranch, Mr. Davis furthered the family's core objective to start a race war and trigger the apocalypse and participated in these two extremely calculated and violent murders to the end — to that end. And it's difficult to overstate how impactful these crimes were on the people of California. They left a legacy of terror and pain that continues to haunt the state today. In addition, to the horror of these crimes, there is additional evidence that Mr. Davis should not be released from prison. I do not believe that he has demonstrated adequate insight into his willingness to engage in such extreme violence. At his 2019 Parole Hearing Mr. Davis explained that he was initially drawn to the culture of sex, drugs, and rock and roll that surrounded Mr. Manson. He left California for a year, then returned to Spahn Ranch, uh, found that the whole scene had changed and that the discussions that he had turned to race wars, riots, intercepting society. Mr. Davis claims that he did not believe that Mr. Manson sincerely (Unintelligible). And that at that point of, um, that the first time he saw the family’s vision being fulfilled, was the torture and murder of Mr. Hinman. Mr. Davis acknowledged helping him plan to attack on Mr. Hinman, and continuing to associate with Mr. Manson and the family after learning of Mr. Hinman’s death. He also admitted that he stayed with the group even after finding out about the heinous Tate- LaBianca murders during which five more people were killed by the family. Mr. Davis told the Board, as long as I felt like Manson was my friend and that I was having affection from girls and I could get loaded when I felt like it, nothing else really mattered. He explained that he lacks empathy and sympathy and did not care about the family's activities and (Unintelligible) since his own psychological and emotional needs were being met. Mr. Davis acknowledged that he willingly participated in the attack on Mr. Shea, and that he knew in advance that Mr. Shea would be killed. He admitted cutting Mr. Shea, and said that when it really came down, I didn't care if Mr. Shea had been alive or dead, it didn't make any sense to me. None of Mr. Davis’ statements at his 2019 hearing indicates that he has a comprehensive understanding of how he came to participate in such extreme violence. As a result I do not believe that he has the current insight and skills to abstain from violent situations in the future if released. A lack of empathy and a desire for drugs do not account for Mr. Davis' repeated and deliberate decisions to remain by Mr. Manson's side, furthering the cult’s core goals and actively engaging in violence. He has not sufficiently explained why he was so indifferent to the suffering and death of the victims of the family. Even as the cult’s body count continued to rise. Mr. Davis had ample opportunities to alert the authorities, personally intervene to stop these crimes, or even just walk away. Instead he escalated his own violent participation and deepened his close connection to Mr. Manson, all in pursuit of his own little personal gratification. And so Mr. Davis can adequately explain the external characteristics and decision-making that led him to these extreme actions. I do not believe that he can be safely released. All right. So those are the Governor's concerns. And as we have the same governor this time, um, we're going to do our best to address those concerns at this hearing. All right. So Mr. Davis, do you have anything you'd like to say right off about what's going on in previous hearings?

INMATE DAVIS: No, ma’am. I was, I've always been treated fairly.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. So we'll be going into the main hearing. You do have a new Comprehensive Risk Assessment. It was approved on November 28th, 2020 and written by Dr. Mancusi, and they found — and um, he found you to be a low risk for future violence. Um, the Panel has also reviewed confidential portions of your central file, and we will advise you, and I understand what your, um, your Attorney has requested if we'll be relying on any confidential information when we make our decision today. So, um, I — this has been — your life prior to your life crime has been covered in several previous hearings. I'll just state the record really quickly that you were born in Louisiana, raised by both parents. Um, talked about a good childhood. There are areas where you talk about not feeling loved by your father. Um, and he died from a stroke in 1968. So these crimes occurred about a year later. And your father was an alcoholic. And you talk about being sexually abused by a friend and by a male teacher. Um, you, — uh, before these crimes occurred, it looks like you went on a trip to Europe for six months.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So what are other things you think are relevant to this hearing? So tell us about your childhood.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, as I stated several times, uh, uh, my relationship with my dad was, uh, very checkered to say the least, there were some good times and there was some bad. And, uh, I found out later that I was caught in a power struggle between my mom and dad and like his — like my father, my grandfather treated my dad who, when he was upset with his wife, took it out on her son. And my father got — caught that relational style. And when he and my mom would, uh, would have a disagreement, if it got to a certain point, he took it out on me. I never, I never understood why it was happening, not for years.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what do you mean he took out on you?

INMATE DAVIS: He would go, he would, he would be mad at me. He would curse me. He would, he would, uh, give me a whipping. Now, he never was, he never broke the skin, he never gave me a bruise, but he was — it was very scary and disheartening to me.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you feel like those times you had done nothing wrong and he just comes up and starts hitting you?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, Yes, well, I basically, I wasn't, I wasn't, it wasn't, he was mad at my mother. So instead of doing something to her, he did it to me. That was his way of getting at her. And there would always be, I don't know if he had, if he had a reason in his own head or not. I didn't always know what his reasons were.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And how often did this abuse occur?

INMATE DAVIS: Not super often. I don't know if probably, I, I couldn't count the times. I couldn't give you a correct answer as far as a numerical number, but it happened enough to where I became very distant from him.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. You, um, at 18 you graduated from high school on time, when did you leave the house?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, 1960 — 1961, ‘62.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You were born in — so about 20 years old, you left the house?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I was still 19.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: 19, you did not want to college?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I've been to college. I've been to college for a year. Um, I came out to the West Coast for a while and then went back to, uh, Tennessee that’s where I was raised and I went to school again. And then I came out here in 63.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Um, when you left home, was it on good terms or to move out to California?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. Yes, it was.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And, um, so I — you worked in construction in your early twenties, is that right? Like as a welder.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And then in 1969, you had been employed for — unemployed for several months in the beginning of 69?

INMATE DAVIS: In the beginning of 69. I had come back from Europe. Yes, I was, I was unemployed.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So how were you supporting yourself even though you're unemployed?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I still had, I still had some money.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: From your father?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, yes, leftover from my trip to Europe.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And tell me how — I just read that some women or some girls paid for you to go to Europe with them. Tell me about that.

INMATE DAVIS: Um, a friend. Um, well, two, two, two, two, of the guys I knew and a couple of girls, they said we have a, we have a steamer lined up to take us to, uh, the Spain you want to go. And I said, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So it's kind of like a bunch of young kids going backpacking around Europe is that?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, we weren't backpacking, but we went to Europe, we went to Spain and other places.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And you stayed in hotels or what were you?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, hotels, we stayed in hotels, mostly, well all the time, you know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So you came back, I think I read in May of ‘69.

INMATE DAVIS: It was close, you know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Then, then tell me, where do you go and live? And I mean, tell, tell me what's going on then?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I got back to the States. Uh, I went to mobile my mom was living at the time and her, her and her family, I stayed there a while. And then I came back out to LA.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And where did you go in LA? Did you go to live with some friends or?

INMATE DAVIS: No, I was — uh, Manson met me at the airport. He knew I was coming.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So how did you meet Manson then? When did you meet him?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, 1968.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you had met him before you went on the trip to Europe?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. Yes. We’ve, I’ve, I’ve known him, we met in about March of 68, March, April, May, June, — March, March, April, sometime there. And, uh, uh, we were in, we were living in (Unintelligible) at that time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Were you living with him?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. And then, we moved to Spahn Ranch from Topanga and I was there just a little while and uh, everybody got a broke up. We all just left. And, uh, I went, I went back, back East and while I was there and my dad died a little while later, I went to Europe.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: I came back the following spring and, uh, that's what I rejoined, uh, Mr. Manson.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So when you met him the first time, what was he like? Was he committing crimes? I mean, committing crimes or what was going on the first time, had he started a cult?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, the first time I met him, uh one of his friend came in, uh, a friend took, he had to bring some tools, uh, borrowed some tools from Manson and asked me, and asked me to give him a ride up the Hill with the tools and that's when I met Manson. And, uh, he was, uh, very polite, very, uh, forthcoming, uh, engaging. We talked, um, I was attracted to this, to the whole, to the situation, uh, there were about, I guess there are four or five other girls there with him. And, uh, I was, of course I was attracted to the girls and you know, and then, um, you know, he was the first man that I had met, who I, I really, I respected because, I perceived he had power and, um, and he treated me like an idiot, as if what I thought and said was important. And it was something that had never happened before with someone I was

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: How old, you're what, 25 years old?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And how much older is he than you?

INMATE DAVIS: I think he was about seven or eight years older.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So that — he was a father figure, and I'm thinking he wasn't that much older than you to be a father figure. Right?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I took it as a father figure. He was, uh, he, he, he seemed to be a lot more mature than I was. Uh, he treated me as someone with respect. Um, like I said, I, I perceived, I thought he had, he had control or power of the situation he was around. He had, uh, he had a way of communicating to me. That was, that made me feel good. Um, I felt very accepted and, uh, and treated like on an equal level.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So what were some of your character flaws that attracted you to a man like this?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I was uncertain of myself. Um, I was, um, I was impulsive. Um, I was very immature, I was alone. I felt lonely. Um, uh, I was hungry for excitement. Uh, I had a lust for women and drugs. Uh, so when all those things appeared available, I was just, I was holed in.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And how many other men were part of this cult?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, let's see probably a half a dozen, maybe more.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And this is before you go to Europe, how many people all together are there in this cult?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, uh, there was, uh, well, there's, three guys. There's, three, three, three guys, there’s three guys. And, uh, there were probably a half, a dozen girls, maybe more, I don't remember their exact count.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So we are talking about 15 people?

INMATE DAVIS: Approximately.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And there was some writing that I read, um, that you wanted to be Manson’s number two man.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, that was an allege, I wanted to be his favorite guy, but I didn't, I didn't, I didn't love to be his right hand man. I just wanted to be his favorite because I wanted his approval.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So was there any violence before you left for Europe?

INMATE DAVIS: No, not a bit.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But you guys were stealing to feed yourselves or the girls were getting food in the back of the grocery stores or?

INMATE DAVIS: Well

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What were you doing with your time?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, really nothing. Just, uh, I was on vacation in a serious way. Uh, I was, well, here was one thing. Uh, I was drawing unemployment. I had worked for several years in Santa Fe Springs and around Southern California. So I started drawing unemployment probably about January, February of ‘68, so I had employment — I had unemployment every week.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And where were you guys all living? All 15 of you living?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, not — there weren't quite that many in Topanga. Right. Uh, but once we, but there were more, when I came back, when I came back to Europe.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But before Europe, in Topanga, where were you living?

INMATE DAVIS: In Topanga?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes.

INMATE DAVIS: Where were we living in Topanga? Is that the question?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Were you living in a house? Where you taking —

INMATE DAVIS: Well, there, there, there had been a house that had been well, had been declared unlivable because of a mudslide, about half of the house has been run with mudslide. And so we were just living in that house.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you were like living in abandoned house?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes that's. That's where I, that's where I met Charles Manson.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Because you're bringing tools up to this abandoned house or something?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. So what made you decide when you came — first of all, when you went to Europe, a couple of girls, were these girls from the Manson family?

INMATE DAVIS: No. No they were not.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What did you know these girls from?

INMATE DAVIS: Oh, I knew them from, when I was in Knoxville, Tennessee. Uh, and, and they were, they were, they went to schools

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, so you knew them from back home, basically.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: They had nothing to do with California.

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So what made you decide when you guys got done on your trip through Europe? What made you decide to go back to the Manson family?

INMATE DAVIS: I was still attracted, I was still attracted to, drugs and the girls.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. Were you keeping up with your mother at this time or your sister?

INMATE DAVIS: My mother, I was still my mother. She was immobile.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So she knows that you had gone up to Europe for a few months with some friends and now you are going to go back and live in this cult.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what did she have to say about that?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, she didn't really know the whole story. I didn't tell her everything. I just told her. I had a friend in LA and I was going to LA.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. So you come back in May of 69. Charlie picked you up at the airport and that's when you go to Spahn Ranch?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And tell me about the difference in what was going on now with this cult?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, the difference was, there was, there was talk about, of, uh, of, uh, a revolution, uh, based on the unhappiness of, of, well, based on everybody's unhappiness, according to Charlie and, uh, and especially the black population that he said was going to revoke, and the white population because the, uh, the, the anti-war demonstrations were going on. And so it kind of the basis of all this unrest was the death of Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, Jack Kennedy, those kinds of things, and the riots, the riots in Chicago, Detroit, Newark, LA, those were kind of a basis for the narrative that he told.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So I understand about what's going on out in the world. I have always wondered how you would put the violence in the Manson family, as I don't see how there’s the connection, especially since the Manson family killed white people.

INMATE DAVIS: Ma’am, I, I'm, I'm ashamed to say this, but I did not care as long as Charlie and I got along, and I got along with the girls and there was drugs, outside of that I had no concern. The only thing I wanted to do is those things, those, the drugs, the girls and, and, and Manson, those are those things I was

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: At that point of time, you didn't care what they did or what they were about or what their philosophy was.

INMATE DAVIS: No. I don't think, I never thought that that Manson really believed that stuff. I think it was just the story he told, but I didn't believe it. And he knew I didn't, but he would just, I would tell him that's crazy. And he would say, well, just, just see. So, you know, the way I felt about it, as long as I was not threatened or being hurt, I was okay. Now that was bad.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: It didn’t matter that you are involved in murders of other people?

INMATE DAVIS: I wasn't involved. Okay. Now, after, after, after Mr. Hinman, um, I, I had rationalized that if I didn't actually strike the, the killing blow that I will be all right, because I didn't really do it. That was my rationalization. I had deceived myself into thinking that that as long as I didn't do the actual murderous act, that I was free, I was, I was safe from

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You are still around and hanging out with people who are killing other people.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Commissioner, that was a timeline here because you're, you're, you're going from when you first got back to Los Angeles and Spahn ranch, there was no violence, you’re talking a while before that, that didn’t happen, so let's, let's take it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: (Unintelligible) more on that, higher up. I haven’t asked him about the actual crime yet. I'm still just trying to understand his mindset to still want to be with these people.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, my mindset was this. They were satisfied, what I thought I needed. And outside of that, I had no concern.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And you thought you needed, what?

INMATE DAVIS: Say that again?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what did you think you needed? This is when you came back from Europe and decided to go over.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. I needed, I needed Charles Manson's approval. I needed sex from the girls and drugs. That was what I needed. As long as that looked into me, I was just, I had a television, the other thing, I didn't feel that I was in jeopardy. So I was all right. Now, that's how it felt. And, uh, uh, it is, uh, terrible, but that's how I felt.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. So Mr. Hinman — this is July, we're moving out up to July 26, right? Has anybody been murdered before Mr. Hinman?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No other, any other violent crimes taken place?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So Mr. Hinman was the first? He was the older man who lived on Spahn ranch, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, no, and they, they lived in old Topanga road, uh, down in the Topanga village

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Which was, we were over in the Valley. He was across the Hill, down the other side of the, uh, of the mountain going toward the beach.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, um, tell me what happened with Mr. Hinman. Tell me about that crime.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, first I, I, we had been, I had been to Gary's house a few times, with a couple of the girls, because they, they moved in before I got there. And Gary was always very open, uh, generous, talented guy, great guy really. And I liked him. We got along, but when it came down to, uh, — we were in a camp one night near the ranch and it came up we needed money to go to the (Unintelligible). And one of the girls, I don't remember who exactly it might've been Ella, uh, said, well, Gary has a big, uh, inheritance and I — and we can get that. And, uh, that's how, that's the first time that getting money from Gary came up to my hearing. Okay. And, uh, Manson said, why do you think he would give it to you? She said, well, we'll ask him to join the family and I was, I ain't even thinking that was a possibility. And of course, in the family where you gave everything into a common, common purse, so to speak. So that was the, that was the, that was the thinking. So he said, we'll go and ask him for the money. And, uh, they came up with (Unintelligible) says, well, I'll make sure he gets it. I'll take a gun and a knife. Okay. So, and then Manson says, well, you want to drive? We drive. And I drove the car, so I delivered them to the house, let them out and came back to the ranch. So that was my part, as far as that went. A few days later, uh, uh, Charlie came to me and said, I talked to Bobby or talked to the guys who in the house, I don't know exactly what I said Gary was not cooperating, so we have to go see him. So I drove Manson back to Gary's. We went in the house, Gary was bleeding. He had, um, they had abandoned them —

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: More than two days

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, it was probably, well, Yes, probably about two days after we, uh, after the initial, after I left them there initially, and, um, the gun had been fired. He involved me and struggled over this 9 millimeter was mine, sorry to say. And, uh, the gun that had been fired, nobody was shot with it. Thank goodness. And, uh, I found, uh, when I heard about it, I retrieved the gun and I got back from Bobby. And, uh, I had it in my hand, uh, Charlie was talking to Gary and Gary was cheating and said, I don't have any money. I don't know what you're doing. What's all this about, uh, Manson didn't believe him. And I stood there. I had the gun in my hand and I'm sure Gary felt threatened by it because he didn't, — as far as he knew everybody was his enemy in that house. And here's somebody right here — and Manson had a sword.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, everybody was his enemy and you had been torturing him for two days. And I mean, you are the first one to go on right?

INMATE DAVIS: Absolutely. And so, so he was, he was, so I could, I knew he was, Gary knew he was in a terrible place and no friends. And, uh, he had, he had, Charlie got into, well kind of a discussion about, he didn't have it, he didn't believe it. And finally, uh, Manson cut him on the side of the face with the sword, cutting his, his, uh, his ear part, his ear about his face like this. And, um, would have been on the side. When I saw that that's the first time I've ever seen blood, as far as, uh, an altercation. I mean, with a weapon. And at that point, I said, I'm leaving. And I walked out, but I took Gary’s car with me.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you're saying you never put your hands on Gary?

INMATE DAVIS: Never.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You never stabbed him?

INMATE DAVIS: No, ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You never had, you stood there and watched them — for him, but you didn't do anything about it.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, yes. Not a thing, not a thing I'm ashamed to say, Gary deserved — we'd been, we'd been well friendly and he deserved support from me, but I betrayed him and abandoned him right in the middle of it and walked away and didn't do anything to help him. I could've called the police. They could have stopped it. I didn't do that because I didn't care. And then,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Was it, I mean, this went on for two days. So they know that these group of people are torturing this man for two days, and that you didn't care about it. I mean, how does somebody get that way?

INMATE DAVIS: Because I had given up caring first about myself and about everybody else. I had given up on myself. I see it now. I did not, at the time I didn't think it like that, but there was a time even with my dad, we were having a big discussion, not very polite and I remember looking across the room and in my mind, I said, I'm turning you off, regular. And I don't care what you do or say your thing from now on I don't care.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes. But if the discussion with your dad nobody's getting bludgeoned.

INMATE DAVIS: No, but we're talk, we're talking about the basis of when I started not caring. And that was where it started. I thought I was just turning him off. But in reality, I was turning myself off. And from then, I just, I had the opinion that I was the only person that cared about or could look out for me and everything else just became the background.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Did you think Hinman had money and was lying about that he didn't have money

INMATE DAVIS: When he was talking and said he didn't have it. I believed him. I believed he didn't.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But that still didn't matter. Because then if you believed he didn't have money, you're just killing someone to kill them.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, he wasn't — okay. I knew he was, I knew he had been hurt. I knew he was in jeopardy as serious, but you know, when you don't care, you just don't care. And I didn't, I was looking out for myself.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. You take his car and you go back, you go back. And everybody else who was involved in the torture and murder, they eventually come back to the ranch?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And do people talk about it.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, yes the did.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And then what was the tone or the attitude that they talked about it?

INMATE DAVIS: They just said that Bobby stabbed him and I was, I was, — I don't know what their attitude was really. I was not really paying a lot attention to their attitude. My attitude was, well I wasn't involved. So that's okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So then what's the next thing that goes on that's — we're at the beginning of August now, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, uh, the next, the next bad day that happened was one morning about daylight, where I was standing, we were standing on the place called the Boardwalks at the ranch with, uh, with Charlie Watson, Steve Grogan, me, (Unintelligible). Manson comes up and says, we're going to kill Shorty, that's Donald Shea. And, um, I, I wish I could have just fell through the floor at that moment, but I couldn't leave. I felt it would not, that would be, that would be jeopardizing me if I said I'm not going to go for it. So

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What? Do you think Manson would have killed you?

INMATE DAVIS: Not Manson himself, of course,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But he wasn't told —

INMATE DAVIS: Well, it's like a gang thing and, and if you don't participate, you're the enemy.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Were there any other, um, family members, I guess you'd call them that started hanging out with the group and then realized that they turned to violence and then decided to leave?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, David Baker, I think David Blake he left. I don't know why. And, um, I'm trying to think if there was any other, any other name that I remembered exactly who left because of that. I can't remember any, not to say it didn't happen.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. Tell me about the murder of Mr. Shea.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, like I said, um, Charles (Unintelligible) authority. He said, we'll get, we'll get, to take us down to the car parts. We we'll go down to the Valley, we need some, we need some parts for the truck we’re working on. Later on that morning, probably about, I don’t know, it was, it was well day light when it happened, where the stores open, uh, Donald agreed to take us down to, to get parts. Three of us got in the car, he was driving, um, Watson was in the front passenger seat. Grogan was in the driver's seat and back he was riding back of Mr. Shea and I was on the other side, in the back seat. So we were driving down the road and, uh, Watson says, pull over. And Donald says, what for? And Mr. Grogan, uh, stated hit — in the back of the hands of the pipe ranch.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Did you know that that was the plan?

INMATE DAVIS: I know he had, I know he had to buy for us, that was obviously just random. It was pretty obvious.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: I mean, so you knew when you all got in the car that you really weren't going to get car parts, but you were all getting into the car to kill him.

INMATE DAVIS: That's right. That's right. And, uh,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what was the reason for planning to kill him?

INMATE DAVIS: That he was a, we were told we believe that he was an informant, that he was informing the police, the authority, something

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: About this cult, living at this ranch.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. Yes ma'am. And, uh, because they wanted us to leave, uh, the people who were involved with — now, this is, I'm not sure I have all the details right. But there were some people involved in, they wanted to buy the ranch property and make condos and use it for residential development, something like that. And, um, so there was, uh, so, and, uh, they wanted us to leave and we knew that we would be out of the ranch if that happened. So that was, that was Manson’s thinking. And, uh, I went along, I went along. I, I walked out and went with him. So, uh, uh, Mr. Watson stabbed, uh, Shea, Mr. Shea, pulled him out of the car, went down the Hill, into the underbrush, I said and I didn’t — I stayed in the car and I was, I was, I was kind of frozen. I stayed in the car for I don't know how long, then Manson pulled up behind us with some of the girls drove him up evidently, when he walked by the car, he said, come on and I went. So we got down there to the murder scene exactly. Donald was been stabbed several times apparently. And uh, he was saying, why, why are you doing this? And Manson had a laugh and says, this is why. And then Manson stabbed him. And, uh, then and Manson handed me a machete. He said, cut his head off you know. Well, I took the machete in my hand, but I found out there was a limit to what I would do. I got it. And Manson handed me a knife, a knife in my hand and said you better do something. Well, I understood what that meant. So Mr. Shea was on my left, I had the knife, I turned around and I cut him from his, uh, his collarbone down toward his, uh armpit.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you guys are slowly killing this person by stabbing him, different ways and he's still conscious?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And he's crying and screaming for his life and saying, why are you doing this?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, that's right.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And he's thinking, he's, he thought he was helping you people, right?

INMATE DAVIS: I'm not sure what he thought.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, he's thinking you’re down to get some car parts.

INMATE DAVIS: Oh, well, yes and that, Yes. I'm sorry. No, Yes, Yes. He said, yes, he did. He's in that he sure did. He didn't have to –- and he had said before we hear — we heard that he had said before that he was afraid of. But some of the testimony in the trial, someone said that he said I'm afraid of those people.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Rightly so

INMATE DAVIS: But then he gave us all a ride, I don't — so, so he probably had mixed feelings about it who knows, who knows, but he did give us a right, and he thought he was doing us a favor and we betrayed that favor. I killed him.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So, um, then after that, what, what happened?

INMATE DAVIS: After I, after I attached him and cut him, I dropped the knife and I walked away. I walked on down the Hill and the, and the ranch was mapped to our West, so there's a little Creek that ran back up towards the ranch, so I just got down to the Creek and walked back to the ranch.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You were by yourself?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You walked down —

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. I wouldn’t,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What did Manson think you're — when walking away and not helping them finish the job?

INMATE DAVIS: I've done my part. I had done my part.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Meaning of these times you have very, you know, you're here first degree murder, but the, the involvement you talk about is very limited. I mean, you kind of come out sounding like not the worst side of the group.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I was worse enough to go along with it and do nothing about it or try to stop it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No, I got all that. And, um, but still just your, the involvement and behavior that you're saying, kind of puts you still in not as bad of a light as some of the other Manson family.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, that's not, that would not be my judgment, but, uh, I was reluctant in the Shea case I was reluctant, but I'm standing there. I didn't feel there was any place to go. So I did it, I did it, I was, I was, I was too much of a coward to stop. So I was guilty. I'm as guilty as anyone.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So you walked out to the ranch, and then how much time between that and the other murders.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: The murders that happened at night, like the Tate LaBianca murder how many days past?

INMATE DAVIS: Those happened between, between in time, Mr. Hinman, then the Tate Murder and then Mr. Shea

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Mixed up on the story I was thinking they were after. So you had known that group of people, you, you chose not to go on those two nights as a murder spree. You chose not to go?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And Manson didn't make you go or nobody made you go. You had the choice.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I did. I didn't go

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So when you decide to leave. I mean, what happened? Because you weren't, um, arrested for like another year. So when did you leave the cult or leave Spahn ranch?

INMATE DAVIS: Um, well, let's see. I, it was before October, we were at the ranch moving, moving certain things up to the Barker Ranch out in (Unintelligible) up and uh, um, uh, try to think of the County, just North of LA. And, uh, we're kind of moving back and forth. Um, then, uh, the last thing that happened in that, I was, um, I took a truck. I went through, I went to Las Vegas in a flatbed truck with a bunch of, uh, it was about four or five 50 gallon drums, I was going to buy gasoline for our gang buddies. So I did that and I came back and when I got back to the Barker ranch, I've been going to wash. Uh, most, everybody had been arrested the day before and I was told, well, hold up, the Sheriff was here and arrested, uh, Charles Manson and the girls. And, uh, I don't think there was maybe the (Unintelligible). I don't remember exactly, but I, but I got arrested the next day. This is in Inyo County. And so they put us in jail in independence. This was about October 6th, maybe the 7th, of ‘69.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Deputy Commissioner. You want to take over questions?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Thanks. I do have a few questions. Um, you talked about — let's talk about this maybe pre-Europe and post-Europe, okay. You talked about there being three guys – and of course my landscaper is here right now and it's probably messing up our recording. Can you just give me one second?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Sure. I'll ask a couple more questions.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So tell me what the impact (Unintelligible).

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I can't hear you. I'm sorry. Can we just go off the record.

INMATE DAVIS: I'm not hearing you, I'm not hearing you very well, ma'am

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: It's 9:40.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes. I was on mute. Okay. Now you should be able to hear me. Can you hear me better now? Let me ask you few more questions. So first of all, tell me about the impact, the victim's impact that this had on both the men and their families.

INMATE DAVIS: Terrible, terrible. Uh, they lost their sons, their friends or their brothers, their fathers, uh, devastation. Uh, we heard the Gary's mother died because of the shock and loss. Uh, there was terrible pain and, and all kinds of confusion and, um, the wilderness about why and what, and just how and I can't, I can't, I can't imagine, well, I can only imagine the kind of feelings they were going through, it was devastating. And it was so senseless.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: How long before they even found out? Well, I mean, Mr. Hinman, you know, he had been dead in his house for like a week, right. Someone coming up for music lessons, I think found him?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. That's why, that's what I heard.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So they, they find out about this a week after it happened.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Did he have children? What kind of family did he have?

INMATE DAVIS: Gary? Oh, I don't think, I don't think Gary was married, so I don't think he had any children, but he had brothers. I know he had siblings. I don't know if he had brother, his mom, his parents. I don't know if I have all those parents, but he had his mother and they lived, I think they lived in Colorado. And, uh, and Gary was, uh, Gary was looking forward to going to the public service. He had, uh, he had, he talked about having some kind of a offer from him or a, for a federal, some type a federal job. And that was it. He was excited about that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: How old was Gary?

INMATE DAVIS: He was a few years older than I am. I think he was probably late twenties. Um, I'm not, I’m not sure exactly, but he was a little older than I am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what, what effect did this have on the community of his death?

INMATE DAVIS: It was terrible. Yes. The first I take probably the first thing was, was his, his music students and his faith group. They were in shock, I'm, I’m sure and missing. The landlord, who had to deal with this house after this murder. Uh, the people around him, I'm sure they were, they didn't know what was happening. They saw, they might be potential victims. I can imagine. So they went into a state of fear and shock and uncertainty. So they were, I’m not sure how long that went on with them. Right. And maybe this thing didn't get resolved until October so that was August, July.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And then Mr. Shea, tell me about the effect on his family.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, he had, he had children, he had a wife, he had friends in the, in the, in the movie business. He was, uh, he was aspiring stepdad and cowboy actor and, uh, had all the readings to go with it and had big, have big plans. And we knew some of the people around him that were involved in the movie business. Now I never saw him in the movie, but that's what he was doing. And uh, he’d been in the, he'd been in the service, uh, kind of back and forth with his wife a little bit, uh, with his family.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So how old was he?

INMATE DAVIS: Say that again.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: How old was he?

INMATE DAVIS: He was a, he was older than Gary. He was — I think he was born, I think he was born — 35, 36, something like that on that. I'm not really exactly sure.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right, so he is in his 30s.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes ma'am. And uh, so we, we cut, we cut this last shot, his dreams, his family. They lost — his children lost their dad, his, uh, his parents, his mother lost the son, I can — well, to what it was a terrible. If they were devastating with grief for a long time, they didn't know why it happened. There was a lot of mystery around it, (Unintelligible) terrible

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Manson’s family as some as Southern California is starting to unravel what, what's going on, right? This is — murders.

INMATE DAVIS: Right. You know, Southern California went into lockdown. The gun store sold out around that area. Uh, all the security services just put into business. People were buying chain link, fences, guard, dogs, um, all kinds of security system for their homes, everything like that, plus, and that was the,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Was it known that there is this cult one around killing people? Is that what word was? Or what do you think it was?

INMATE DAVIS: They didn't know what it was. They didn't know what it was until October. They had no idea. They didn't, they, it took them a long time to figure, figure out that that Hinman and, uh, the Tate murders were even connected.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All connected. Um, why did they put, what was it piggy something on the wall. What was the reason for that?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I was trying to deflect blame. It was, it was too, it was a mark of what they considered to be the Black Panthers. So the idea was that the Black Panthers had done this. And that was a little that was a little Panther mark on the wall. That's the thinking,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: If this is to start a race war or to get the people of Southern California, thinking that there's a group of Black Panthers out doing these bloods and murders, what's the advantage of that to Manson?

INMATE DAVIS: I have no idea what that, I think, you know, I always, I never really believed that Charlie believed all that stuff really, but, — he, they, we all believed it enough to participate in what we do that's for sure. And it could have been, he thought that, well, we've got started now because, uh, the authorities will take it to Black Panthers and then they'll, they'll put pressure in that direction. And,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And I mean, maybe that's part of why there's been many people looking at this horrible bloodbath of the summer, but I still, that it's the fact that it's just senseless and that you still can't quite understand what's the reason behind this. Like, what's the alternate game? Is it Charlie trying to control a group of people that do these horrible things and the fact that he can get them to do it and he being like central as a bigger person or

INMATE DAVIS: Well part of it

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: It's part of — I mean, what other secondary gain or other motives where there on this?

INMATE DAVIS: And as, as I look back and see it, you know, um, Manson had a great control issue, that's pretty obvious I'm sure. But, and he had hate for everything I suppose, in a certain way. And especially to the people in authority that he thought had hurt him. Now, this is just a guess, but I, I think it's right. And to get back up the so-called system, I think that was his part of his motive. Maybe the major, maybe seemingly the major motive and to start a (Unintelligible) and to put them in discomfort or do whatever he could do to take his revenge that seems to be major.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And you, you didn’t have the same motive as want to be with this cult, because usually when you're with a group in a cult, you kind of all believe in the same goal or same mission.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, you know what I, what I believed in, I'll tell you what I believed in. I believed in me, I believed in having my, my lust fulfilled. That's what I believed in. That's the only thing that bothered me. The only thing that I was like that I really cared about as long as I didn't — that's why I, I left Gary's house as soon as I saw blood, you know, I knew he'd been hurt, but I wasn't there for that. But when I saw that happen, I knew I was gone. I just wanted to get away from the circumstance. As soon as I was away from it, I went back to, you know, feeling like I always felt even when I was back at the ranch, when I found out Gary had been killed, you know, I, I was not, I wasn't particularly bothered. I wasn't bothered enough to do anything. I wasn't bothered enough to leave because I was getting what I considered my needs met.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So when did the gravity of what you had done hit you?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, I was in Folsom. This is, this is four years later and, uh around, where I'm staying in the building, there was a mother — out there around the corner. I couldn't see, it was the domino table. Uh, a black man named Lewis from San Diego had a bunch of debts and he was, he wouldn't pay. And so everybody he owed, the whites and the Mexicans, they went to, they went to the other black guys and said, this guy owes, no, if you don't do something about it, we do. And we don't want to do anything about it because that'll make her race war. So his, his associates, black associates, they killed him. I didn't see it happen, but I heard it. And I walked, I, I walked over and just looked around the corner and I saw this man lying in a pool of blood. It was huge. It looked like a youth full of blood to me. And all of a sudden I realized what I'd done, and I knew that I really deserved to be in prison. And that Manson deserved to be here too. And I remember just looking at it and it was, I don't know how long I saw it but didn't take long to figure out what had happened. And I remember standing with my back to the wall and the jail politics says that if a black person gets killed, that's okay — to be. And I remember, I remember having a thought well, that's good. And then all of a sudden, first time this happened, and I started worrying about this dead man's parents. How is this going to be broken to them? How are they going to be told what happened? And I fought against that. I said, no, I don't care. And so I started, I got back on this. I said, that's good. That's good. And then it came back again. And I was just crying and I couldn't. And all of a sudden I'm standing there and the Lord spoke to me. He said, I'm changing. Okay. And that’s when it hit me, I mean reflect, it was a shattering experience. And that was the last of my racism. That was the last of my indifference — it was the first time I'd ever, the first thing I've tried to remember, was I ever, sorry for being anything to anybody before. And I couldn't think of a time that was embarrassing or shameful if I woke up to it, right there, and, uh, then I began to — and I started thinking about Donald Shea. I started thinking about Gary Hinman and then later on, I was, I was, I was in there, I was somewhere between awake and asleep. I don't know what to call that. And I saw this picture opposite, opposite a park and there were two great stones together. And one said Gary Hinman and had his date of birth and death, and the other said Donald Jerome Shea, they were all (Unintelligible). And this woman comes up, I recognize her as Gary’s mother and Donald's mother and my mother all in one. And she came up, she's on the right side. She came up and she put her left hand on my shoulder and she pointed to her and said, that's all you left. She thinks that's all you left me. And she knows she wasn't mad, but she was so hurt and this is the first time that I ever felt that I ever, I just felt the hurt right there. And it was just, I just turned to jelly on the inside (Unintelligible) even more. And, um, that got me in touch with —

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Because all though the trials separate, you said you, you denied that you were a part of the murder or that you knew anything about it. So it wasn't for four years after that?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: I, I put them through all the pain of having to go to court for me. I should've just, I guess, but I didn't have, I didn't. And so I just apologized to them that they had to sit there and listen to all these details. And they’re in the same room with me that I would turn it and they had to come to court several days. I can't imagine. I can't imagine.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Were there any other murders that you were involved in that you didn't get caught for?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No. Because I did hear something about, you're not cooperating with police. Was that because back then you just said, I didn't know anything about this, unless there's some other crimes.

INMATE DAVIS: When I first got arrested, the detectives told me, they said, look, we, we, we know enough about this, we know that if you just tell the truth, we can't guarantee your judge will help you, but we are but you know, I was a fool and, and still, and still wanted Charles’ approval and he wouldn't have approved if I'd helped. And I, I just played stupid on it — I'm good. So I should have settled right there, but I didn't. So I didn't cooperate. In fact, I pled innocent, not guilty and caused everybody to have to go to court and go through the (Unintelligible). I can't imagine the expense. And, uh, you know, the inconvenience to say the least. So everybody's true. Not only them, but the whole city of Los Angeles, the money, they understand the extra duty, the people who were just put out of, uh, all kinds of things, you know, and later on, when I was in CMC, that was ten years later, or six or eight years later, I was going to, I was going out one day and a young officer stopped, he was at the podium (Unintelligible). He said, he said, my family was so scared. He said, I was about eight, about eight years old at that time. He says, he said, we thought you guys are going to come get us, we've been told that everybody, was anybody could, we didn't know who it was. We didn't know what was happening. And then, and I’ll tell you what, the part that broke my heart because he said, my friends and I was afraid. And then we found out that they had only been killing rich people and we were really poor so we felt a, we felt relieved. And, uh, Yes so it put me in touch, put me in touch.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Deputy Commissioner. Has that background noise gone?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: It has.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, you can take over.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Can you hear me and see me okay sir?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. So I just wanted to clarify a few things

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: When you're finished with, uh, the crime, can we take a short break before going to post- conviction.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I, I think that's fine. I just wanted to clarify a few things on that topic. I just will establish sort of more information on your, your mindset at the time. So, uh, you talked about with the Commissioner, uh, there are three guys and a handful of six girls or something at the family, uh, at Topanga Canyon prior to your leaving for Europe. Is that accurate?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So it was, it was you and Charles Manson and who else?

INMATE DAVIS: There was a brother named Bruce. I don't remember his last name.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: And then there was, there was there, there was another gentleman named Mark. And I don't, that's all I knew, there was Bruce and Mark and me and Bobby was late every now and then he would stop by.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. So, all right. So it was maybe closer to five guys at the time. All right. So you met Charles Manson in March or April of 1968, I believe you said. And then you left for a trip to Europe about seven months later, in October.

INMATE DAVIS: No, I left for a trip in June, actually.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You left in June. So you really

INMATE DAVIS: The October thing, that’s that the next year.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. That is, all right. So how long were you gone? So you had met Charles Manson and let's just say March, you left in June. So three or four months. How long were you gone?

INMATE DAVIS: I was gone until about May, the next April, March or April of the next year, that was 68 and I left.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So you'd been gone eight or ten months.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: What Charles, what did Charles Manson saying when you, when you left?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, what happened was, there was some, there was something happened at the ranch. I'm not sure exactly how he knew, but evidently we had to leave when we evicted, right. I'm guessing, um, uh something like that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. So he was, he was fine

INMATE DAVIS: There was a rope, he said, look I’m not going to live with this — uh, and where did this kind of breaking up from it? He said, we'll come back to you again later on. And so I said, okay,

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Did you have any communication with him while you were away?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: No communication?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. No. I did write a letter from when I was in England. I wrote a letter to the Topanga, I wrote to Topanga shopping center, that's a little shopping center there, where it close to Gary's house and they had a bulletin Board and I wrote, um, I wrote (Unintelligible). And it says, um, I'm talking to, I'm talking to, uh, to Charlie and the girls in the big black bus. Um, write me and say hello. And I gave him my England address. I got a letter back. So I knew where they were. I had their phone number. So then when I got back to the States, I called

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. And you said, Charlie picked you up at the airport?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. I let it LAX.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. All right. So you've been involved with them for a couple of months. You were gone for quite some time and then you came back and that's when you said there were more guys there.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So, so, so when you got back, how many guys were there?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, Watson was there

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Right

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, Danny DeCarlo. Um, Dave, I don't remember the name was Barker Baker, whatever it was, he was there.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So a whole lot more guys there.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So was everybody sort of jockeying for position with Charlie at that point or what?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I don't know.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You wanted his approval? You wanted?

INMATE DAVIS: I wanted his approval. What he did with other people. I, I didn't particularly notice or care.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Where there were lot, there were girls to go around too there?

INMATE DAVIS: There were girls you'd go around.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. But that's why you were there and now you have six or eight guys, more guys. Were they more interested in you or the other guys that had been there for a long, longer time?

INMATE DAVIS: The girls were interested in whoever Charlie's told them to be interested in.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Did Charlie tell them to be interested in you?

INMATE DAVIS: Evidently.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes he did.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And you talked about in July? So this is just, you got back what May, so June, July. So just a couple of months, you understood what Charlie's new philosophy was, what his plan was at that point?

INMATE DAVIS: I heard it.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So you'd heard it. And part of that was going to the desert. It was starting the race war. And then you, what do you do? You escape to the desert and that's your safe place until the apocalypse. And then Charlie takes over the world.

INMATE DAVIS: That was the narrative, sir.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And Hinman was the first murder?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And Hinman was money to go to the desert.

INMATE DAVIS: So basically yes sir

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So isn't that the start of it? You plan to the start of this whole thing.

INMATE DAVIS: That was the first one.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Because you just talked about how you have all this little bit of involvement and you just say that, I only had a gun in my hand. You never pointed the gun in Mr. Hinman.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I'd probably do.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Let me say, I don't remember exactly. Did I have the gun like this? Did I have it in my hand? Gary was taking it, that I was a threat with that gun.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Well, you've always said, you've always said that you didn't point the gun at him and today you said you had a gun in your hand.

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, but further reflection. I would say that if somebody said Bruce pointed that gun, I would not argue with him.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: I don't remember exactly my, my body position right. Uh, I was a threat to Gary, no matter if I pointed directly at him or whatever, but I threatened him with this gun. I'm sure I did that. That's for sure. And I held it in a way, where I'm sure he knew that it was a threat.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Well, it seems to be a bit different than what you, what you've described in the past and there's been a lot of hearings. And when was the first time that you admitted to the Board that you were even there? Was that 2010?

INMATE DAVIS: I don't,

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: My video just froze. I heard you say I don’t.

INMATE DAVIS: I don't, uh, I don't remember if when I, before 2010, I don't remember ever, I may have, I may have admitted. I was there. I don't remember exactly before 2010, I was, I was not at any kind of, I mean, when I (Unintelligible)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: But you found Jesus. You, you had this epiphany in 1974. So how are you still doing this? 35, 36 years later.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, it just took a lot of time. That's all. That's how I see it. Uh,

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I'll say that is a long time.

INMATE DAVIS: It is a long time, I'm saying, to say

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: 2012, in 2012, you, you dripped out a little more information. You talked about Larry being present at the murder of the victim Shea.

INMATE DAVIS: He came, he came with, he got out of the car when Manson got out.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. You didn't really talk about that again today. Who else was there? You said some of the girls?

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Objection, Commissioner. He wasn't asked about who was there. So I like the insinuation

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And the insinuation, I'll just state it. I don't know that he's telling the truth or being honest or open. And I think that the record reflects that, uh, that's true that he hasn't been for a long time. So —

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: He also has been for a long time Commissioner,

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. But when we go back, that's fine. But when we go back to 2010, well going back to Schwarzenegger right, he had four reverses under (Unintelligible) Brown. You've got

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: (Unintelligible) I don’t remember when.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Newsome, reversed, Brown reversed you, I think four times Schwarzenegger everybody talks about you minimizing your role in the crime.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, you know, in 2010 I wrote a letter. I wrote, I talked to the Commissioner and I took as much responsibility as I could. I said, I am responsible. I feel, I feel moral responsibility for everything that Manson and all the rest of them ever did because I stayed there and my presence encouraged them to do whatever they did. And I never said don't do this. And I was one of the older people there. So my presence was a, it was a kind of acquiescence. So I'm responsible, I'm responsible. I made the decision to do everything I did. Nobody made me, I decided to do that because I thought that doing it would get me more of what I wanted than not doing it. Now, when it came to Larry, Larry did take part in this, he stood to the side, he stood to the side. I left him out. I made a mistake. That was terrible. Um, but he wasn't involved in it. He was a kid, he was probably 16 or 17, uh, startled to death, like a sane person would have been there. And I, I took the law in to my own hands in that way. And I, I was, a terrible mistake.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So after Hinman, and then we have the other things. Did you ever participate in any of the creepy crawling?

INMATE DAVIS: No, sir.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And that's, the record, is that you, you said you were scared to do that or, or what, why, why didn't you participate in that? It's 10:15. I have lost connection. Okay. We're recording.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. We're back on the record. We've taken a 15 minute break. So continuing on, its Bruce Davis hearing B41079, everyone who started the hearing has returned. Um, before we go back to the Deputy Commissioner’s asking questions. Um, Mr. Davis, I know — are you using a Walker?

INMATE DAVIS: No, ma'am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No. Okay. So you walked in, it was hard to tell — corner — um, so do you, you don't need a Walker because I didn't put it on for ADA or a cane or anything.

INMATE DAVIS: No, ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: It was just hard to see, so. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

INMATE DAVIS: No, I'm good. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Deputy Commissioner back to you.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Thank you. And the last thing that I heard before my computer froze up, I had asked a question regarding the creepy crawling, uh, whether or not you had participated and then I think there was a question regarding, um, a statement that I read where I think that you had made some sort of statement that you were maybe scared to go along with that. So that's where I left off, sir, if you could just, uh, you may have already answered it, but if you don't mind answering that question again, please.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I didn't want to go. I never, I was never asked, — Yes, I was asked one time and that was that was, turned out to be the, Tate the (Unintelligible) of the Tate murders.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So you were asked to go.

INMATE DAVIS: I didn’t want to know, I didn’t know, I didn't know what was going to happen, but when they talked about going on the creepy crawlers and things like that, I was, that was, that was out of my range. I wasn't going to do that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: That seemed a little too risky to me.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Even though you'd already been involved with the kidnapping and torture and ultimate death of, uh, Mr. Hinman?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Did you know that they were going around and it was the creepy crawling, I mean, was that intended as far as you knew to kill someone?

INMATE DAVIS: Manson put that in, in order to get them past, get them past their fears and, and the, the, the steering was you would get it – they, they would come into somebody's house in the middle of the night and just walk around in there and just get used to it. It was kind of part of the Eastern enlightenment series of getting over your fears. And, um, I mean, that's how I see it now. I don't, I don't know if he ever said it like that, but that's what, that's what that was about.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. How long had they been doing the creep — the creepy crawling

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I'm not sure how exactly how long? Uh, it might've been started before I got there. Um, back from Europe, I'm not sure exactly when, I heard about it a few times.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And you never participated in any?

INMATE DAVIS: Never.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. But you were asked to go on the night of the Tate and LaBianca murders.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So how did you have the courage to say no then?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I'll tell you what, I was, I was a little amazed that it just came out of me. No, just like that. I wasn't, I wasn't in the habit of saying no to Charlie, but with that, I tell you, it wasn't me. Someone came out to me and said, no, I will not. And that was it. I never heard another word about it.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So with Mr. Shea, why didn't you have the courage to just say no and not cut him?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I wish I had, I should have.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Well that's, that's not the answer. Yes. The question, why, why, why do you think looking back on it now? Why do you think that you didn't have the courage then?

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Well, the two differences was this, uh, I think Mary or Susan (Unintelligible) I don't remember which one came. I was in the back part of the ranch before the Tate. And, uh, one of the girls came up and said, hey, uh, Charlie wants you to go on, uh, go out with us tonight. He wasn't there. And I said, no.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So you didn't say no to Charlie.

INMATE DAVIS: No. And the next night, the same thing happened — the girls, I was at another place and I said, no, I'm going to go.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You think of Charlie asked you himself, you would have gone.

INMATE DAVIS: I would I tell you, I would have been more likely, I'm sure of that, I don't know. I, I, I didn't know when I started, when I said, no, it wasn't as if I, I might, my action said, I intended to say no, but I mean, no, came out of me. It was almost just a reflex, that I said no.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And on the murder of Mr. Shea — now he was dismembered, right?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: He wasn't. Who was dismembered? Who had his head and legs and arms cut of?

INMATE DAVIS: No. Nobody, no one — looks at it.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. But you said that —

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: The autopsy report, it was also a Board investigation that, in which both be in the record.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes. Okay. I was just trying to get some information because he did say cut his head off. Charlie did tell you to do that.

INMATE DAVIS: And, uh, and if I remember right, I told you, I didn't

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Right. That's right. You said no. Yes. But you've cut him.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Were you aware of where his body was buried?

INMATE DAVIS: No. Uh, I left, as soon as I left. Um, no, um, I knew later that, uh, Steve Grogan was on the burial, did the burial.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Did you ever make any statements? And this goes back. I mean, was it ever something because the discussion and some of the, uh, statements were that you saw him get the capitated and it was far out and things like that. Did you ever make any statements like that where people

INMATE DAVIS: Oh yes, I was foolish, foolish braggadocio.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. But, but it didn't happen. So you just lied about it?

INMATE DAVIS: Absolutely.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: What benefit was lying about that?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, part of, part of the, uh, uh, part of the thing was Manson said, we'll tell people we cut, cut shorted up in small pieces and that will scare them and we'll tell the Baker the same thing and they won't testify against us.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right

INMATE DAVIS: So that's how that got started. All right. And, uh, so I was all in on that, like a fool.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Uh, Commissioner, that's all I had on the crimes at this time. Uh, would you like me to move on to post-conviction?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes, please. Thanks.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Mr. Davis, this is your 32nd Subsequent Hearing. You've been in prison a long time. You've got multiple grants of parole. I think you've gotten a grant. What is it, six times in a row?

INMATE DAVIS: I'm sure, that's correct.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Going back to 2010. And so I went back and I read all those Governors’ reversals, and we, I alluded to that earlier. And do you, do you recognize the common theme in all those governor reversal letters?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And what is it? Um, I wasn't telling them everything. Um, I didn't have enough insight. Um, I was minimizing.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You've been involved in substance abuse programming, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, sir.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Is it AA, 12 steps?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Do you know your steps?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: What step five.

INMATE DAVIS: Step five is admitted, after taking the inventory step four, then step five, I admitted to myself or others, the exact nature of my, my shortcomings in my, my inventory

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay, but that also possibly be used to admit the exact nature of the crimes you've committed.

INMATE DAVIS: In the inventory?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So how long ago did you first work step five?

INMATE DAVIS: I'm not sure.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: But you held on to information until at least 2012 where you didn't tell the exact nature of your crimes?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I didn’t

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Bruce stop, uh, I'm going to object. I'm going to instruct my client, not to answer. This is not relevant to the suitability at all. Um, we were just – I don’t really (Unintelligible) Deputy Commissioner. Um, the last six panels of this Board has determined in my client is telling you the truth. And he does have and accepts full responsibility for this crime. The last psychological evaluators for the Board feel the same way. So if you seriously believe that the Governor's stated reason is what is going on here. I got the (Unintelligible) for you in Arizona.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Thank you, Counsel. I'll, I'll pass on that. This is a DeNovo Hearing. I can ask the questions. I'm going to ask questions. If you want to instruct your client not to answer questions, I'm trying to get to his level of insight and understanding of himself today and back then to see the change.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: What — when he first acknowledged step five of the 12 steps has nothing to do with today. So I'm instructing him not to answer that question.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And you can instruct him and I'll ask it and I'll make the statement.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Let me say this. The answer is, I don't remember exactly.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: It's been a while. All right. I couldn't tell you the day.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: I couldn't even tell you the year.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Could you tell me the decade?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I’m sure within the —

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: I instruct Bruce, don't answer the question.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Okay.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: What about step eight?

INMATE DAVIS: I'll say this I'm uncertain about it.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. What about step eight? What’s step eight?

INMATE DAVIS: Step eight, uh, fix it. Let's see six. Uh, I, I acknowledged my need for help. And seven, I asked her ago, eight, eight, I ask for help.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Eight is you make a list of all the people you've harmed.

INMATE DAVIS: I made a list.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And have you done that?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Now obviously we know that victim, Shea and victim Hinman are on there?

INMATE DAVIS: That’s right.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And we have the community and other things like that. Are there any other people that you've harmed?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Are there any other people I'll just ask this and your Attorney can object if he wants and he might, but there's this discussion of several other people that ended up dead, John Phillip. Did you harm him?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And he was, what? Was he your roommate? What was his relationship?

INMATE DAVIS: We were in the same house when he was shot himself. I wasn't, I wasn't — little Patty was with him in the bedroom.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And you had nothing to do with that?

INMATE DAVIS: Not a thing.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And you had an ex-girlfriend Doreen Gaul.

INMATE DAVIS: Never heard of her?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: No. Okay. And James Sharp, they were found murdered. And there was a discussion that there was some tie to you of some sort. What about in London? It was Sandra Good's, Ex-fiancé. Joel Pew. Were you in LA, were you in Europe or in London at the time of his murder?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Do you know anything about that?

INMATE DAVIS: I know I wasn't there because the FBI checked in the home office said I was out of the country.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. But you never had any additional information on that? Nobody ever talked, you guys seem to talk a lot and brag about things. Did anybody ever tell you about that murder?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And the similarities to the Tate and LaBianca murders, as far as you know, you would have no reason to know why they were similar?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. All right. Is there anything else that you haven't told a Panel before? Because although your Counsel objects, I don't have bad intentions for my questioning, sir. The issue has been minimization of your involvement, not really discussing your willingness to engage in that violence or, you know, and so understanding yourself and really being able to talk about it. And for you substances sounded like it was a problem.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, let me say this. My motivation for doing, from participating in this was my greed

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay

INMATE DAVIS: My lust, my, my want of acceptance, affection from the girls, the drugs, I did it because I thought I would get more of that than if I didn't, if I hadn't done what I did, I was going to lose those things. I was not going to lose.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So let me ask you this very pointed question. What was it about you? Right? The greed, the lust, acceptance, all that, so that may have been your motivation, but what was it about you that allowed you to participate in murder to obtain those things? So that's the end result, you know, uh, you got the girls, you got the drugs. So what was it about you?

INMATE DAVIS: I wanted to continue to get them, to not participate means those things got cut off. I saw that my participation was part of

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. When you went to Europe and were there — you were there with other ladies?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Were they sexual partners?

INMATE DAVIS: Some.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Did you do drugs?

INMATE DAVIS: A little bit? Yes I did.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So you were able to do that? Not around the family or Mr. Manson.

INMATE DAVIS: True.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So were you doing different drugs? Was the sex better? What's the difference? What was the big draw about the family?

INMATE DAVIS: It was Charlie, he was a big draw.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Why do you think that was? I think you have to explain that a little bit better.

INMATE DAVIS: I was looking for a father figure. I had adopted Charlie in my heart. Now we didn't make a formal thing, but I had, I had. And, and, and that's, that was the draw.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So were you just blindly following him?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, blind enough to do what I did. That's for sure.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You made statements like his plan was silly?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I wasn't following his philosophy as a, as an intellectual thing, but I followed what he wanted because I wanted him.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Why?

INMATE DAVIS: Because he was my father figure.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I get it. But that's just a very blanket statement. It's not a very deep answer. You talked about, you had issues with your dad, you talked about wanting. So can you get a little deeper than that?

INMATE DAVIS: I I'm sorry if, if, if it doesn’t convey anything, but, uh, that's, that's what I was, I was looking for. That's what I was protecting for myself.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. So where do you, where do you get your self-worth from today?

INMATE DAVIS: I get my self-worth from God. I was created by him. And I'm worth something to him by virtue of being a creation.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Anything else?

INMATE DAVIS: That covers it all I think.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Let's go through a few things here, disciplinary history. Your last 115 was in 1980. Your education in prior hearings has been well-documented. Uh, you've got educational upgrades, including a doctorate. Is that correct? A PhD?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Vocations and marketable skills. Your, how old are you, 78?

INMATE DAVIS: 78

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: 78. Do you think you'd be working in any manner if you were out on parole, sir?

INMATE DAVIS: Not any, not in any physical way.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Right, right. There was a discussion potentially about maybe you wanting to do some sort of, uh, speaking or book writing. Is that still something that you're entertaining as an option?

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Oh, wait.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Well, the speak, the speaking

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Bruce. Stop Bruce. You asked him if he has, if it's still an option, he's denied it. He's told everybody four times. He's never had that idea. So it's not like he'd still be doing and your questions should be is he, is he planning on doing, he can't answer that question.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Are you planning on speaking or writing a book, sir?

INMATE DAVIS: When I speak from a pulpit to a, to a religious group, obviously I want to tell them what Jesus did for me. The caveat is I will never talk about my case except to just admit it or talk about anybody else’s crime. My, my message to them is the message of redemption by Christ through his grace. That's the message.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. Since your last hearing, have you been able to, uh, participate in any self-help programming?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, the chapel was open for a little while. We've been shut down up here for, you know, um, I was in, I was in Avenal for awhile while it was running, while we were up. And, uh, I signed up for a group that uh, My Brother’s Keeper but, they never got started. I was in a, uh, a prison fellowship Academy and, uh, for a, for a few weeks and then it all ended.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay

INMATE DAVIS: And so,

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: And we know with corona virus, everything's been shut down. Um, what sort of programming have you taken relative to gang activity? I know it was part of the life awareness program that you took maybe in 2016 or ‘17. Have you ever taken that CGA or anything else like that?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: We've covered, well on comparison, um, in, when I was in CMC, the, uh, the CGA program was absorbed into the, uh, to the lack of awareness.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Right. And so you have taken that. And so I think there was some earlier statement how the family was, had some of that gang mentality. Would you agree that that's true?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes I would

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So how do you plan to avoid getting back into a situation where you're tempted, uh, to be involved in any sort of, uh, that, that gang mentality?

INMATE DAVIS: I think the temptation would be very limited because — if not absent, because that's not my taste anymore. I have no, I have no — I’m going in no way.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: The way of the church.

INMATE DAVIS: The way of Jesus.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: The way of Jesus. Okay. All right. Commissioner, do you have any questions on any of those topics before I move on to parole plans?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No I don’t, thank you.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Let's talk about your parole plan, sir. If you're granted parole today and it doesn't get reversed, where would you go?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I have a, I have a couple places I could go once in San Louis Obispo to, to transition, um, home called, uh, restorative partners.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I saw that letter.

INMATE DAVIS: You saw it?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes. Okay. And that is your first choice?

INMATE DAVIS: One in LA Francisco homes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. What would be your first choice and why?

INMATE DAVIS: Um, well, SLO would be my first choice because I was there for a while. I was there, I was there for 39 years and I, I met a lot of people through to the inside and outside programs and things of that nature and a lot of support.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: That's a good reason to go. So how long has that program do you know?

INMATE DAVIS: Years, I suppose.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So if you're involved, there’s transitional housing, restorative partners, I mean, you could live there for, for years.

INMATE DAVIS: I understand, I could live there as long as I need.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Is that when your intention is to do at this moment right now, do you plan to stay there for a long time?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, Yes, I stay, well, long enough. I stay up. I, I, um, I'm settled to stay there until, until the circumstances and the situation opens up where there's something better, just as good. Right.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So could you describe for me what those better circumstances would look like?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, in that case, I think we'd be living with a literally in it. I'd probably have a roommate and that, in there. So I'd like to have a room of my own.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Um, I think the privacy thing would be, uh, would be a major, uh, the major, uh, item. Um, if I were living there and had my own place, I'd be good. You know, if I could cook for myself and just take care of myself, as I said, we're in apartment and, uh, hey, that'd be fine.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. How are you going to avoid a relapse to any sort of drug or alcohol use?

INMATE DAVIS: I lost my taste for that a long time ago, and I realized that first thing, I just stay away from where it's happening. I don't associate with people that are involved in any kind of drugs or alcohol. My friends don't do that because it's, it's, it's not good for anybody.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. I think I saw a Relapse Prevention Plan.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Was the last one. Uh, the most recent one that I saw was from 2012. Is there a more recent one?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, not really.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, everything that, that lot is still the same. Uh, uh, let's see. Uh, Mr. Beckman is on my, uh, uh, my, my safety net, uh, my friend, he's a pastor in Canyon country. My sister whoever's running the, uh, uh, transition home. My, my parole officer. I have other friends of support right in that area. So there's a, there are several people that are committed to my doing good.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: So, that would be my -.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Do you have plans to continue, uh, is it with Al-Anon or AA?

INMATE DAVIS: I always, I will always be, uh, in the 12 step program, I’m sorry of some kind.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Are you an alcoholic?

INMATE DAVIS: I’m committed to that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Are you an alcoholic?

INMATE DAVIS: I have alcoholic tendencies.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Are you a drug addict?

INMATE DAVIS: Am I a drug what?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Are you a drug addict?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: I haven't been a drug addict for many, many years.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right.

INMATE DAVIS: 1974.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes, I recall reading that, uh, that year and the story about hearing the voice that said you will never get high again.

INMATE DAVIS: That's right. That was the end of that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. I'm looking at a list of your triggers here. What are some of your external triggers?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, my external triggers are that I need, I have a need for affection, uh, I am sometimes triggered with impatience. Well, um, well impatience, that's one. Um, um, I think, I think, uh, impatience is probably my biggest thing.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: So, you get impatient and that might trigger you to drink or use drugs?

INMATE DAVIS: No, that was just telling me that I'd better look out.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. So, that's more of a warning sign for you.

INMATE DAVIS: And some, and some of the things might be if I got, uh, you know, like the negative, the negative media for instance, that would be, that would be a hard thing. Loss of a job, loss of an income, um, death of somebody close, uh, insecurity of, of, of, uh, of money, health, things like that, those are all things that would impact my, you know, I’d feel the impact.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. And so what are your coping skills? What, what do you have today that would make you, or allow you to, to take those triggers and those urges and not act on them?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I'll tell you, I agree. I will not feel that I am, I I've come to a place now that I, I recognize them. Sometimes not as quick as I wish I did, but I recognize them. And so I understand where they're coming from and where they have led in the past. So, I know that when I get triggered for whatever or I think about it, I know that to carry this going forward, this is not, it, it has always had a bad result. And so I need to just refocus on something that that's productive. I need to just re-label that stuff as this is not good, right? Then I need to recreate something around me that, that, that is useful and positive.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. I'm just looking through here seeing if there's anything else? How do you make amends, sir?

INMATE DAVIS: I'll make amends by trying to do the right thing from here forward. Not major, mostly indirect, u, my only direct amends has been to apologize through letters to the victims. And, uh, you know, remember, uh, remember Gary and Doll, uh, and, and promote, uh, a safe and positive lifestyle. Those are the things I think would honor them.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. Now, I do have some support letters here, various folks, and a bunch of people have written a lot of letters over the years, I've gone back and looked through and I've seen some familiar names over the years. They're all part of the record. I'm not going to put every one of them on the record. Um, but we have quite a few different folks involved. Your sister of course, Judith Ward is she still supporting you? I saw a letter from August of 2020.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, she is.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. We have, uh, Matt Genevese.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Robert Glaus, G-L-A-U-S former Chaplain?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Who is a chaplain. He's offering you financial assistance. He says, he's going to set up a -.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, he did.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes, a $10,000 account for you to help you out. We've got former Inmates that have written letters. Um, Mr. Jones, I think Mr. Kelly, um, Daniel Herring, Robin Adair, Sherry Hounds. So, there are folks out there that support you.

INMATE DAVIS: That’s right.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: There's a whole lot of people that, that oppose parole too.

INMATE DAVIS: Um, I'm sure there are.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes, I was looking through some of the letters that we had received, um, Alan Paterno, uh, with that change.org petition. I didn't verify his number count of signatures, but I believe he stated there are over 24,000 signatures for over 4,000 public comments from around the world dealing with that opposed. Uh, we also got letters from, uh, Jimmy Williams and Wendy Moran and Daniel Langford. We've got, we've got opposition as well. And so I've reviewed whatever's in the file there and name maybe some of them. So, all right. Is there any other topic or any other part of your parole plan that we haven't covered that you want to bring up?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, let's see place to stay, um, uh, some kind of 12 step involvement, uh, involvement in my church, um, re-involvement with my family. Uh, re- establishing relationships with friends I haven't seen in a long time. Well, um, I don't know everybody got a suggestion, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm just trying to think, what am I, trying to go down this list? I can't take it much more.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes, the Comprehensive Risk Assessment, looking at some of the risk factors and you hit on one of them earlier with that media attention, increasing your stress level. Another, another point that the clinician found as highly relevant was some of your, if you ever ran into any problems in your support network.

INMATE DAVIS: I don't know what. What was the, what was the point there?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Just, if anything were to come up, if you got sideways with some folks, it could be, it could be bad. I don't know. Would it be relevant to your, to your risk of recidivism. So, what are some of the, what are some of the challenges you think you could face out on parole? Um, you have a real need for acceptance. I think we've established that at this hearing and others. What if, what if it's not going the way you think, what if the, your support network isn't doing what you think they should? What, what, what's your plan? What are your, what, what challenges would that present?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, it definitely would be an emotional challenge.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Yes.

INMATE DAVIS: Um, you know, my acceptance does not come from the Lord and what other people do I'm glad when they accept me. I've recognized that everybody won’t. Some people will change. Some people can go in either direction. Sometimes that feels good to me. Sometimes it doesn't, but it doesn't change what I'm going to do because it doesn't, it doesn't affect the whole picture. It just effects a part of it. I feel the pressure, but, uh, it's not going to change my direction. And, and I'm certainly not going to do something stupid because somebody else does something that I don't agree with.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. All right. Commissioner, I'll turn it back to you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Mr. Davis, you doing okay? Do you need a break?

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. No, I’m good.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, this last area is called offender change.

INMATE DAVIS: Called what?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And, um, offender change. This last area of questions is offender change.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So, one of the things, um, I always like to give an opportunity is if you have any comments about your risk assessment, one from last fall that was just done. You were given a low risk for future violence, but I'm sure you've read it.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Is there anything that you don't agree or you do agree or you want to highlight?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, you know, of course, you know, I, I've never argued with the, with the people that make the assessment because I don't have their train. I don't have their point of view, uh, particularly and so, and so when they say things like I have this need for acceptance or maybe I would be pushing this. I don't disagree with you. I say, well, there's something better to investigate. Something to think about because I've realized that what they say is it's real, this is real. And I've never heard them say something that was completely off the wall. So, so when they say that you know, they, they say, well, uh, maybe he has such a need for acceptance that he would do something illegal or go in the wrong direction. I'd say no way, no for that, but I understand their concern because then all I can see is the past and what happened just while we're talking. So, I'm not saying they are wrong. I'm just saying, I don't see it that way, but I can, I can understand what they do. And, and so I, I, I'm good with that. Um, the only, the only, the only thing I ever did, I had any, uh, in fact, I've, I've read it down where, uh, where she said, Yes, this is on page 10, about the middle of the page. She says, uh, if you were, if you were asked to speak, would you be encouraged, right. Maybe it's you and I responded, well, I'd be open. And, uh, I'd listen. So, if somebody approached me and said, we want you to speak. I’d say well, I’ll be open. I want to hear what you have to say. And I'm not saying that, uh, I’ve told them, and I wrote, I said, I've been encouraged if anyone wants to hear the testimony of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done in my life I'd be highly encouraged. I didn't say it then, I wish I hadn't, but that was a clarification point I wanted to make. And, uh, I said the only thing I would speak from, from the pulpit and talk about nobody stays even (Unintelligible) right. I want to talk about what the Lord did and how he saved me and changed me. That's, that's the message I have.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So, I'm going to just kind of go through I highlight some things that I, in the risk assessment that just maybe aligns to talk or clarify. And so starting on page 10, there's, this is also on, um, the middle of the page. The clinician writes during the present evaluation he noted that there was an impulsive thing to say and stupid impulsive thing to say that it's “stupid” though express that many people are interested in hearing about his “close call I had with the evil side of the world” and how he has changed me. So, I thought that the language you had that you used a close call of the evil side of the world, I guess I, I struck with, I wouldn't say I wouldn't call your, that summer was a close call with the evil side of the world. What did you mean by that?

INMATE DAVIS: That was a very gross understatement. I mean, it was more, it was just, it was more than that, but it was all that, like it could have been a lot worse for, for a lot, for others, for me, it could've been worse. So, it wasn't the worst it ever could be. So, that's when I said (Unintelligible). Now, that was, that was an understatement I know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes, but I don't think it's your fault. I mean, seeing you as part of the Manson involvement would call that a close call. That was a horrific, horrific nine people plus the nine people were murdered plus all the other victims and liberations that we've had. I mean, I know you are involved in all nine deaths, but I'm just saying.

INMATE DAVIS: No, you are right.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: That, that could be called minimizing your involvement.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, understated very much.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: And now look, I was never trying to say Oh, I wasn't that involved. I just said, Hey, I was scared at a certain point. I was reluctant at a certain point, but I did it and I chose to do it. So, I'm not saying, Oh, they made me or I was the victim, or, uh, I was captured or I was enthralled. I'm not saying that. I didn’t do it on my own. It’s my decision to do all the bad things that I did.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And one of the other things is you have the ability to stop. It went on for such a long period of time. And once you realized, Oh my God, what they're doing, even though you may not have been there that night during the Tate LaBianca murders or whatever, but you still could have called the police or made a um, confidential call to the police or, or like some family members did take off because I'm getting the hell out of here. I don't want to be part of this.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You said that several times Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Huh.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: You said that several times that you didn't do anything and you could've done to stop it.

INMATE DAVIS: Hey, yes. I am, I am ashamed and sorry that I was such a coward.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: But that was, that was what, that was about.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Another, um, well I said I read something about I just caught him on the shoulder talking. That was another area that I highlighted.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: What page Commissioner?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: That was, um, page 12. There's a whole lot of writing. I put the posts on the side. Um, I also, this is kind of on a different thing, but it says you have numerous chronic health conditions that impact his physical capacity and endurance limiting his mobility and ability to work. So, you're about to have a hip. I mean, we, you're 78. I just want to put on the record what your health concerns are and your physical limitations.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, ma'am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, you're about to have a hip replacement and you already had the other hip replaced?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, after I -.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what other chronic health conditions?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, well, emphysema, uh, enlarged prostate.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Um, and so how does the emphysema, um, limit you? Like you can't run or walk or, you know, what does -?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, you know, I can walk pretty good. Uh, when I get into climbing a bunch of stairs, I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm um, I'm, uh, I'm moving to say I'm a little short of breath is kind of an understatement. I'm, I'm short of breath.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: And so I have to, I have to concentrate to breathe.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Uh huh. And is, are your lungs atrophying or anything with the emphysema?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, you know, I think as far as I can tell now, I don't really know all the signs, but, but what happens is, uh, the, uh, the smoke, the, uh, the pollutants, I was a welder for a long time, smoked way, too much other stuff and cigarettes, and you're, you're the areola begins to react and have scars and, uh, and, and it kind of tries to close off to protect itself the way I understand it. And then, and then of course, then if there's a dysfunction or a, uh, an injury in your body, the white corpuscles come there to try to fix it, right and fight whatever it is and things, and so that's what causes all the inflammation. I know about all that. It can flex and spit up and all of that. And that spreads, the doctor said, there's no cure for this, no known cure and-.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Right, emphysema, just your lungs slowly get worse, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. And when they lose their capacity, you know? And, um, so that's, that's the prognosis.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And then I'm sorry, you said enlarged prostate, any, anything else?

INMATE DAVIS: A whole lot. No, I don’t think so.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Oh, no, I just want to establish.

INMATE DAVIS: I hear you. I hear you. I'm just thinking about what it seems like anyway. Now, that that's all medical.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes, it did note that you have no cognitive decline, so that's good. Um, you know, we talked kind of over and over about the media attention if you were to be released and you being prepared for that amount of stress, right? Um, but it does say here, I'm on page 14 and third paragraph, it says that you have fair insight. Um, all right.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Commissioner?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All Right. Uh?

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: I went back on page 12 when I was looking for that statement that you were (Unintelligible) and I found it, but it's a little bit different than the way you said, so I'm going to read it into the record really quickly.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Sure.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: He handed me the machete and said, cut his head off. I took the machete and said no way. So, he gave him his knife and said you better do something. I know what that meant. And I'm standing and looking at (Unintelligible) Charles Watson with a knife that they just stamped him with. So, I reached over and cut him on his shoulder.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, the desk that I, my, where I think I was okay. Sometimes I put notes on the margin where I want to read mine because I thought that wasn't a little bit minimizing. Got it. And it’s not that I'm only looking for negative things. I'm also looking for positive things that's why I brought up the metaphor.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Um, when I, you know, it does talk quite a bit about your support in the community. You do have a good support team. Um, we recognize that your family is at the State, but you have other from your ministry and you have other support. Um, all right. So, just a couple of questions on offender change, tell me who you were when you came to prison. This is back in 1972, I think. And who are you today or how are you different today?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, there are great differences that, uh, I'm not, I'm not dropped or loaded. I'm sober. Um, and I'm thinking a lot differently.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: So that's that, that, that item leads to all the rest that I'm different. I have, I care about myself. I care about people around me. I, um, I want to help. I want to be, I don't know. I want to be useful. Um, I, see, I don't see people anymore as, can you help me? And that's all the good you are to me or can you hurt me? And that's all, I'll stay away. I don't have the world divided up like that anymore. So, I'm more, let me be more vulnerable, just be open. And, um, so I, uh, I got my value from, from there that created me. That gives me a, uh, the knowledge that every other human being is equally as valuable. And so that gives them value, their own value. And so from that point of view, I want to be of help.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And the other things about who you were and who you, how you're different today, I'm not looking for anything else. I just want to give you the opportunity.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Okay. Well, I'm not dependent on drugs. Uh, uh, the, the crazy life I don't need, I don't need the action.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: How about, um, I mean, I know there's no women in prison, but obviously there seemed to be a big draw was the promiscuous sex.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. Well, you know, I was married for 25 years in CMC, had a great wife, great wife, and part of my foolishness, I let her get away. I didn't let her, I mean she left, but, uh.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, what was your foolish step?

INMATE DAVIS: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't agree with her, her politics. I just said, I just -.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: When you say politics like, like Republican versus Democrat, those type of politics or person politics, or what do you mean?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, kind of, kind of the, you know, the big picture politics. She was more, she was more right wing than me and all I had to do to save the whole thing of just shut up. That's all I've had to do, but I didn't have enough sense. And then, so when we get into it and say, if I could have disagreed with her because she was, she was, I thought she was mostly right. It was just some things I just said Oh. And so I just uh.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, when you think about that, you don't want to be with a partner if you're out in the free community where you've got to shut up and especially as much as politics has been in the news recently, right? Those marriages tend to be strained. You know, that reminds me there's two reasons why lifers come back to prison. The two most prevalent reasons for parole violations, do you know what they are?

INMATE DAVIS: No, ma'am. I know they get in trouble.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: It's a common one. It’s a common one.

INMATE DAVIS: I'd say it's probably sex or money.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, it's got to be a parole violation. So, (Unintelligible) screen or relapse into drug use would be one of them, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Think about it when you see lifers coming back to prison. And then the second one is domestic violence. This is the two reasons that lifers are most likely and I say this more because that can affect anyone. You might get out and you and your wife get back together and you get in a big argument. Somebody knows your history. They call the Police. Police are going to show up, right. And who's going back to jail and that's even necessarily to violate parole, (Unintelligible) so your parole agent decided to get you out.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Well, uh, uh, stating the scenario just like you stated I could have disagreed. I don't think it's likely in my case, but if you are saying.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: It's to be aware of it, right.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: I don't think most people who did spend a weekend in jail didn't expect it either.

INMATE DAVIS: No, it didn't start out that way. I'm sure. But we never, we never had with my wife and I, we never had a violent thing or a real fussy, fussy.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, you can't get too violent in prison, right?

INMATE DAVIS: I mean, we're not talking about physical violence. We're talking about emotional or verbal and we never, it never came down like that because, uh, we, we never disrespected each other in any way as far as degrading or something like that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, it's just something I always bring up in this section because you never know, you might end up in an assisted living and you, and one of the other ladies in the assisted living hit it off and you start a relationship and you know things happen. I've been a parole agent. So, that's why I always bring it up to, um, out while you're on parole, if you were on parole, what are your three biggest challenges as far as not violating, not doing a parole violation, does that make sense? Like if you were to violate your parole, give me what are the three reasons that it would most likely be?

INMATE DAVIS: Changing, maybe changing, uh, changing, uh, residency without notifying my parole officer, uh, uh, getting a speeding ticket.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Let's talk about that one. Um, changing residents that would be a parole violation.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And why do you think you would be at risk for that?

INMATE DAVIS: (Unintelligible) those are just things that among all the possibilities, that is not what we're asking for.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Right, I want you to look at what you are, you know you yourself personally.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What your pattern of behavior has been, nothing that are going to do it, but when I get in trouble it's usually because of that kind of thing.

INMATE DAVIS: You know, I've made up my mind not to get in trouble for a long time. No, I wouldn't get in trouble with about drugs or alcohol. I wouldn't get in trouble with anything about firearms. I wouldn't get in trouble if it was about somebody else’s life.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You haven’t answered my question. And my question is, if you were, I will also tell you as a parole agent, most parolees when they wake up in the morning, they're not thinking, Hmm. I think I'm going to violate my parole today, okay, right, so.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Look at, look at you, yourself and some of your character flaws and think of something that, you know, I really got to be on the lookout, but really need to be cognizant of.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, you know, now, now, that you brought it up. Um, like let’s say if I was in a recovery home or the transitional home, and I the rules got where they were just, I didn't think they were good for me or I didn't like it. Okay. Well, I realized that I would have an impulse to say I'm out of here, right. And that would not be good. Uh, and there you would be, that's how you would change residents. Let's say, you know, another, and it was a good, it would've been a good move even, but they say, Hey, you can come stay with me and you impulsively leave the transitional home and go stay with that. And then your parole agent finds out two days later, I'm like, wait a minute. I never approved that placement, that would wind up to be a violation.

INMATE DAVIS: I, I would be tempted. I'm not going to be thinking about it. I would not, I would not do it without notifying my parole agent and I don't care what unless they say, Hey, we got to put this on hold. So, I get a hold of the man, right, but I mean.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: On weekend and, and you're thinking to myself, if I stay here, I'm going to end up getting in a fight or I'm going to end up doing, you know, because something and this place that you want to go, you know that you probably would probably approve it, you know, but you can't get a hold of your parole agent over the weekend. So you're like, you know, I'm good with my parole agent. I think I'm going to go and do that.

INMATE DAVIS: No, I wouldn't do that. I would, I would talk to people on my relapse prevention list like —

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.—

INMATE DAVIS: I would call Mr. Beckman or call my friend who's a pastor, I will call a friend. I have friends all around there and there, they all tend to if anything you need anything, let us know and we can help.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: They calm you down and say, Hey, look at the big picture. You need to be here it’s family. So, it's approved by your agents.

INMATE DAVIS: If it came to that, I'm, I'm committed to call them because before it happens, I realized they know more about it than I do or they can, they can see the big picture. If I got where I'm just seeing this little picture and you know, it always comes down to your alternatives, start to shrink until it's just that one thing. Well, I know that's a, that's a, that's a dangerous place. And so if the alternatives start to shrink where I just couldn't make peace with people around me, uh, right that'd be, that'd be the beginning of a big mistake, where I’d just make peace, but I know, I know that I come to the point where I've been told the people that support me. I know how to ask for help. I've learned to find it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes, I’m just, I’m just saying this just to be, you might end up somebody in your transitional home or somebody finds out that you who you are or what your past was, and you now they want the notoriety of trying to get you or whatever. Um, so that, you know, you're, you know, you're aware.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. That's, that's always a possibility and that's something I'm aware of. It's uh, it's easy. It's easy to say, Oh, well, nobody really cares, but I know that's a lie because everybody cares about it in one way or another, you know, in a thing like that, everybody has an opinion. And so I realize that and that's all.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So, what are some other areas so that you, that would leave, could lead to a parole violation that you should be aware of or, you know, maybe like I said, we all have these weaknesses. And so I'm trying to help you see what some of yours might be.

INMATE DAVIS: Well.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Parole agent gave you some instructions and you just thought they were ridiculous.

INMATE DAVIS: Who gave me the instructions?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Parole agent.

INMATE DAVIS: No, if your parole agent gave me some instructions, I’d do it. I don't care how I felt about it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Let me give you a scenario. You've got a doctor's appointment at four o'clock on a Friday and your parole agent calls you last minute, maybe they missed, maybe somebody called them like from the public and said, I saw him doing such and such and it's not true, but what happened? And so your parole agent says you need to be in my office by five o’clock today.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. I’d be in his office by 5 o’clock.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. And miss the doctor's appointment.

INMATE DAVIS: I can always get another one.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, you would know that what my parole agent says is my primary.

INMATE DAVIS: Absolutely, absolutely. Hey, the doctor might give me a second chance, but my parole agent very well might not, and I'm not going to depend on him being okay with anything except be compliant to what he said.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Or she says, uh- huh. So, yes, I mean, one thing the public can find out you're on parole. The public can find out who your parole agent is and they can tell the parole agent stuff that's not always true, but the parole agent has got it clear to make sure.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, that’s right. So, I realize all those, you know, all those potential things are out there and there's more high than I've ever thought of I'm sure. You know, there's, there's things coming that I have never even considered. And they are counting, they are there. I can't say, Oh, I know what's going on out there. One thing I know is I don't know what's going on, but when it comes to what you're talking about.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: If another scenario that you can see is you're living with a friend and the house has been cleared, marijuana is not legal and you have a condition of not being around marijuana, but it's legal in your room, whoever you are staying with has it in the house.

INMATE DAVIS: No, I, I'm not there anymore.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Because I will not associate with people that are doing something I can't do.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, but that could be limiting.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, yes, but that's good. That's, that's a safety net, the limit.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Um, Deputy Commissioner, do you have any more questions?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: No, I don't Commissioner. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Hey, the time is 11:33. Before, we go into the next portion, which would be clarifying, um, and closing comments I'd like to take a break till 11:45.

INMATE DAVIS: All right.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Okay. We're back on the record.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: We’re back on the record continuing on in the hearing for Mr. Bruce Davis, B41079, and the time is now 11:49 am. So, why, uh, just a few more questions and then we're going to turn this over to your Attorney. Um, I wanted to, well first, how does it, how has it been for you to be granted six times and then have it reversed? I mean, what's that feeling like for you?

INMATE DAVIS: I guess sad and disappointing. That's, that's the shading. Yes, I guess I'm not surprising, but sad.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Not surprising. Yes, you understand?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. I want to give, I'm going to (Unintelligible) November 14th, 2019, there was four highlighted sentences. And so I'm going to ask you each one to give you an opportunity to maybe address those specific things. If you don't want to, you know, or you don't have anything you have any more to say that's fine. But, um, but so the first one is I do not believe that he has demonstrated adequate insight into his willingness to engage in such extreme violence. So, I guess the question to make it easy for you is why do you think back in 1969, you were willing to engage in such extreme violence?

INMATE DAVIS: I was, I was willing to engage in order to get what I wanted. I was blocked. I wanted all the things I've said before. I wanted, I wanted matches approved. I wanted the girls and drugs. I was willing for that. That was what, that was my big thing and that, that was that sort of overshadowed everything. That's what I wanted. I made a decision.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You had a limit though. You wouldn't, you weren't willing to go out on with Tate LaBianca, right. So, there had to be a cut off point for you.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, that was, that's right. That was a surprise to me when it happened. I mean, in the sense that I just came out and said no so quick, but I was glad I did, right. So, there was limits, but uh, not very good ones I'm afraid because it went, I went ahead and participated in Mr. Shay’s death. So, but the reason I was willing to do this because I, I thought that doing them would get me what I wanted. That's all.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: What you wanted was approval from Manson and then sex. So, how did that work, um, with the sex thing? Did he pair up people every night or what?

INMATE DAVIS: No, no, no.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You have to be in your 40s or what?

INMATE DAVIS: No, uh, you know, it was just, it was, I guess in a certain way it looked pretty normal, right? Uh, we're all around each other and just start talking and one thing leads to another and, you know we go.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But did you had the same girlfriend every night or?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Did you start getting jealous or?

INMATE DAVIS: I don't think, I don't think there was, I was never jealous. So, I don't know if anybody else was, I never felt it. So I, there may have been, uh, but you know, I, I was never aware of it. I was never aware.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But did you like one woman more than the other woman?

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, I didn't particularly like one, I didn't particularly like one more than the other. There were three or four of the girls I liked a lot, but I didn't have a favorite in the sense that, Oh, I've made me loyal to her. I was never, I was never that way.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So, it sounds like they were kind of just objects to you for you to have your pleasure from sex.

INMATE DAVIS: Absolutely, absolutely.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And what do you think about that now, is that kind of disgusting? Not to put words in your mouth, but?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, no, that's it, that's a good, it's sad. It's embarrassing. It's terrible. I mean, dehumanizing, you know, to treat somebody just as a thing, a utility object. Man, I mean, when I think about that, when I feel I'm being treated that way, it's terrible. And I can only imagine what another person feels that I can on a sexual level, right. I mean, that, that even takes it up a notch. So, so I don't know what they were feeling, but, uh, uh, I can't, I can't imagine feeling a whole lot different. I'm not really sure how everybody was feeling. I wasn't feeling much. So, I was never in touch with other people's feelings and nobody ever said anything about it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Somebody asked the second question from Governor (Unintelligible). I do not believe that he has the current insight and skills to abstain from violent situations in the future if released. So, I'll turn that into a question. What skills and tools have you developed to abstain from violent situations in the future?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I've developed, I've developed this. I, I have no right to expectations from other people. So, that, that keeps me from being disappointed on a big level or feeling like they owe me. I never had, I'm thinking, I, I know, you know what? I never, I never had serious violence before I met Charlie and never have since. Now, I'm not saying that, uh, it's impossible. They have in place. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I tell you what, it's not something that I want. And, and I'm not, I'm a you know I'm going, I'm going for peace and understanding, and empathy and things and good things. Not, not to, to, to settle my problems with violence. That was.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So, so let's what, what are some of the tools or the programs that you've taken so we can be more specific.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. Uh, well, for instance, one of the most things that, that, that made me newly get in touch with violence was when I took the Victim Awareness course and the LTOP. And it showed me how other people are feeling. I mean, it got me I mean, it really turned it on and re re, recast the whole thing in my head. So, I know that I know I'm not going to be violent like not. I'll not turn to violence.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. There's been several times in the past even as tight as like a year or two ago where you've been threatened from other gangs because they want the notoriety of getting a Manson family member, right?

INMATE DAVIS: I’m not sure about their motives.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. Maybe, maybe I'm putting words in to your mouth, but you have been, and you've been putting, um, segregation and a couple of times I see this. So, that must make you really angry, right?

INMATE DAVIS: No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Or how does that make you feel?

INMATE DAVIS: Oh, okay. I shouldn't say no. Don't make me ever. Yes. I feel the anger. Sure, I feel hurt.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay.

INMATE DAVIS: But, but, uh, but I know that that's what other people do anything can happen and, and I'm, I'm, I'm committed to, I'm not going to respond with anger and violence. I would like to tell them how I feel and what I would like to happen and how I view what did happen, but, uh, uh, now I was only, I was in segregation one time, only once.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Only once okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, and that was, here's a little story about it. The officer comes to my cell and said, we have a credible threat about your safety. You're going to ASU. I heard later on that the white guys, which is a big, big group, but it's the Mexicans refused to sell them drugs as long as I stayed on the yard because I was in this gang and I had been on this easy, real, real easy yard CMC for all these years, it just wasn't right in their, in their sights and if they didn't get rid of me the story I heard, now, I'm not. I don't know about this.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: When you say gang, the gang you're talking about was the Manson gang, you mean, or are they against —

INMATE DAVIS: I have been in the Manson’s gang, the gang, and, and that I had come to CMC that that's not a good prison for the level four. Those guys aren't good. They have dropouts and they allow this and that. So, and so when, when CMC started filling up with level four guys not filling up, but a lot of them came and they were, they were the, they were the white guys, the so-called white guys.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: In the non- designated yard is what you are talking about?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, that's when they started coming. And, uh, and so a lot of people came, they did well, but then there are some that just don't come and they wanted to enforce politics on the yard. And, uh, and, and I was one of the spots that some of the people that were involved in it, they said that they can't, they couldn't have me there because of my past. And it's not because I was ever in debt or ever did anything or anything. It was just that as far as I can tell because I know it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Yes, I, I can see that, that you, you didn't do anything to cause that, but that, that was completely on. And then that's how you ended up moving to San Quentin, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. I was there and then they said, Hey, you got to go. And, uh, so I said, okay.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Can you think of a time when you were angry or wanted to fight someone, but didn't, what, tell me about that and what tools did you use to avoid the confrontation?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, ever since I've been in prison, I have never been, I've never been in a place where I wanted to fight somebody. I've never been. I've been upset. I've been sad. I've been angry. I wanted to tell a person, I want to tell a person off, but I show them even did that because I know that, that’s not -.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Tell me about that when you want to tell someone off or you thought, you know, you were mad at an officer. I, I'm just trying to you to explain what you will do in a situation.

INMATE DAVIS: Well, I've — just to calm down, you know when I feel, when I feel agitated I realize when I am agitated. My heartbeat goes up, my chest gets tight. I can feel it. My breast changes, my voice changes. So, I understand those things. And so I just know, just calm down here because taking this as far as it goes, not going to end up good. This is going to be bad because I don't want to get in a physical fight. I'm a coward anyway, I know that. I'm not going to fight, right. And, and I don't even, and it seems like it's just a moment of just thinking about it. I don't want to, I don't want that person hurt. I'd like to tell him how I feel. I’d like to kind of share that with him, but you know, no, I don't, I, I, that's just not me.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. Let's go onto the next one. This is the third one okay. He has not sufficiently explained why he was so indifferent to the suffering and the death of the victims of the family even as the folks body count continued to come, to rise I’m sorry. So, I'm going to turn that into a question. Why were you so indifferent to what these people were doing?

INMATE DAVIS: Oh, well, I was indifferent for this reason. I had convinced myself that if I did not do the direct crime, the direct thing to murder this person that I, I was safe. I didn't care what other people did. I didn't care. If they became and says, well, uh, Charlie, and Sadie and Dex not a regular 54 people. Now, I don't know exactly what I was thought but the frame of mind was that I’m — so, because I didn't care. I didn't, I know, you know, when I looked at that, I think what in the world. I mean, it's, it sounds unbelievable to me in a sense, but I know that's how I felt. I did not care. The world for me was divided up on who can help me and who can hurt me and the people that could hurt me, I catered to them. The people that could help me, I took from. Now, that was just how it never crossed my mind that I was thinking like that. I was, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, when you said you wanted to please Charles Manson and you wanted to do things for people, do you think you were also scared of him?

INMATE DAVIS: When I feel not physically, but I was, I was afraid of his rejection.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You were never scared that he might send some, maybe he wasn't going to tell you, but he might've had some other people because he ordered a lot of killings, right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes. And now I'll tell you now there's one time when we were at, when we were in Mr. Shay's murder, I felt it. I felt that we hadn't had life and said you better do something. Yes. Yes. I felt it. I was, I didn't fear right there because I knew.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Did you see him as like a sociopath without a conscience and it really didn't face him deep in the courtroom when he killed somebody, when he killed people (Unintelligible).

INMATE DAVIS: We never talked about that at the time, but now that didn't mean anything to you as far as I can tell. I know I never saw, I never saw him sad about anything except not getting his way, you know? Uh, so, but, but I was, I was pretty much the same way in the sense I was indifferent to those people and uh, I didn't even care enough about myself to get out of there. I was just, I was just hooked on what I wanted and uh, and you know, that was it. And when I look back. Yes, ma’am?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And you didn't get in touch with those feelings until about four years ago when the other African-American Inmate was murdered and you heard it. Is that right?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, I never, you know, I never considered.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Bruce, Bruce. He said he got in touch with us four years into his incarceration. Not four years.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: No, I said three years.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, that's right. 1974.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: I, I understand that.

INMATE DAVIS: We're good. We're good. Yes, 1974 was the first inkling. I mean, it was a crash on me, but it took so long for this to develop to a, to a, to a real, highly cognitive level, but I felt it, I felt it man, the more I felt it, but even the empathy part and the thinking about the victims and all that kind of thing that you are (Unintelligible). Yes, okay, the light was coming on, you know, the light was coming on, but it came on very slowly.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But it wasn’t until about 2010 when you started to really be honest with the board that the light (Unintelligible) is that right?

INMATE DAVIS: It was just coming on. It just, it's just like when it gets daylight, it gets a little loud, it's a process with me and plus my, uh, my tendencies to deny and my tendencies to push things aside that that went against that too because it was hard to accept even though I knew it yes. It was hard to, to just get down and say, man, oh boy, right. I mean, it was like looking at a train coming down the track, it's coming, it's coming. You're tied to the track. When you close your eyes, you can play a slot there. You can do a lot of things to distract yourself, but it's coming. And finally it came to a place where around, around 2000, 2008, we had this terrible, but it woke me up. We had a hearing and I had, we had, we had 12 Commissioners and it, and I saw what a (Unintelligible) idea and, uh, and the people I've hurt. And the people I let down, I saw it. I began to really wake up to it. And, uh, several things happened that, uh, that got me in touch with this. Just how I got that life, and how I seen him. And then I, I started to write all about it and I kind of let it be solid and have some, some, some real substantiation in my life. And, uh, yes, it, it had, uh, 2008 was a huge step, but it wasn't.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Do you remember who you told came like your daughter or someone where you became completely clean, open and honest. Do you remember who you had that conversation with first?

INMATE DAVIS: With my daughter.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Well, I'm just saying with somebody, um, do you remember that conversation because often Inmates when they finally let it all out, they remember who they were speaking to.

INMATE DAVIS: Uh, about 2009. I think we were in 2009. Uh, I was over in the yard. Oh, Tommy Reese, we worked together in the (Unintelligible) what happened after your hearing because I had to go up to get some water and come back, but hadn't been here and I said, Oh man, those people just blah, blah, blah, (Unintelligible). It would just mean I was being a victim. And he said, well, tell me about, I said, do you mind talking about your case? What happened? So, I said, no. So, I go through the case and I, and I explain all of my, all the, the crimes in terms of what I did not do, right. Well, I drove the car, but I really didn't hurt anybody. Well, I did this, but I didn't do that. I didn't. So at the end of the conversation, he said, don’t minimize it. Now, I didn't think I'd minimize it, right, but he said you're minimizing. I said, well, I know I said, and I remember I had to tell him, I says, I'm not minimizing, but the board says, I am too. You're both wrong. You're both wrong. He says, listen I want you to go home, lay down and play this, these two crime scenes in your mind like a Charlotte movie without your commentary. And I want you to see who's responsible for what? Just let it play, shut up and just let it play. I did, so a while later I knew that it was wrong. Oh, I just knew I was right. So, I lay down and I said, okay, I'm just going to do this as an experience just so I can tell him about it. And I'll lay there and I started (Unintelligible) It was, it was so much worse than I ever thought. It was so bad, I didn't even want to face it, but I couldn't help it. It was there. I could see it. I could see, I saw my part. I'm guilty as anybody. I'm not less guilty. I may be more guilty because I knew better. I'm not sure if maybe better not, but I knew I did. And I was a coward and afraid and a kitchen freak, and a sex freak, and drug I just, I want all that stuff. So, that but anyway. So, I woke up, so I saw it then, so that, that was the first time. Then, I sat down with him and we started talking. And I said, no, you're right. I began to see that I was, uh, I was, I didn't want to take, I didn't want to take credit for anything significant. We were in a meeting like a little later and we had the pickup. This was four hours alternative. We had to pick a subject for our group, right. So they lay off. And so I said, well, because I've been by this time I knew about it. I knew I really, what I was seeing about myself was classified. It was named insights that I'd never, I wasn't familiar with the term. So, in the group I said, we don't have insight as a guiding principle. Well, it went around and I made a speech. I said, Hey, here's why la, la, la, la, la, well, (Unintelligible) I guess I was ready for it. A guy came up to me and says, man, you, you really made an impact by what you said, and that's what, and I denied not. I said, Oh no, man, anybody would have come to that, I wouldn't take it. I wouldn't take, I wouldn't take the credit. I wouldn’t take credit for anything significantly (Unintelligible). I was just trying. I got reminded a couple of times with it. Uh, and then it finally dawned on me. Well, I'm afraid to do that because I'm afraid of pain. I'm afraid of standing out because I don't have what it takes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: But you do now, you do now.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Going to, not go with the group, not agree with everyone. You get into an assisted living and you went, there's a whole bunch of criminals in your assisted living and they want to go do something. You have the skills to save them (Unintelligible).

INMATE DAVIS: Right. If I saw (Unintelligible) there I'd go to the, to the, to the people around that (Unintelligible) you got to get rid of the gun. (Unintelligible) they are not going to stay with me. I got to go or they do, something’s got to happen because of —

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. So let's do the, let's answer the last question. Until Mr. Davis can adequately explain the internal characteristics in decision-making that led him to these extreme actions, I do not believe he can be safely released. So, I'm going to turn that into a question. Can you explain the internal characteristics in decision-making that led you to these extreme actions?

INMATE DAVIS: Well, my internal thing was if I was very insecure, I didn't think I was adequate. I was embarrassed that I couldn't do certain things and I had a few incidents of that. And, um, I didn't, I was, I was so arrogant and, uh, embarrassed. I couldn't ask for help. I left, I left a great job because of (Unintelligible) like that because I couldn't ask for help at all. All I had to do was ask. So, so that was, that was part of that. With Charlie Hey, it looked like it was their own planner all I had to do was make him happy. And, and I was, I was committed to that because I thought that was survival. It looked like survival to me. And, uh, so I was looking for attention. I was looking for female companionship. I wanted some drugs to make it all feel a little better. I wanted my daddy to tell me. I wonder if really my father that's where I was one.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And he had died the year before, right.

INMATE DAVIS: Say again?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: And your, your biological father had died in 1968, the year before.

INMATE DAVIS: And he never gave me any of that. Now my daddy loved me, but he loved me in his own way. He gave me what he had, he had great skills in welding and fabrication and things like that. He gave me that. Good I made great letter that he gave me, he gave me generosity. He was great. He provided, man he provided material, but he didn't give me the software. He didn't give me the affection. Now, because that's how he was raised. His dad raised him that way so he just, that's all he knew. And that's, that's so, so, but with, with Charlie was different, I felt fulfilled right. And so when I have, I wouldn’t want to let that go.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So what was, what was the characteristics of Charles? I mean, he, he's not like hugging you and whatever like fatherly affection. So, what is it about him?

INMATE DAVIS: Hey, yes. Hey Charlie, hugged me, I hugged him. We weren't classified. It was very correct. We were close like that, right. And uh, he put his hand on my shoulder you know and very encouraging kind of like (Unintelligible). And he would, he would talk in a very positive and encouraging way as if I had good ideas. As if my opinions were worthwhile, as if I was worthwhile as a person. I got that feeling. Now, how much of that is manipulation? I don't know. I'm not sure somewhat, but I took it as real. I took it as respect and, uh, that's why I was, that's why I was committed in that way. Now, I never thought if you'd have asked me, you're really over committed, you're committed to him, blah, blah. I didn't have enough insight on myself to say that's true. I was just saying I'm all that, all that, the psychological explanations and the emotional explanations were just in another work. They just weren't part of my dimension, nothing. So, so I was, I was willing to do it because it was getting me what I thought on one, which was life. It would turn me into a real person, right. That's, that's how I, that's how I looked back. I see it now. That's what, that's where it made it real. Yes. At the time I didn't, I wouldn't think of it like that. I see it now.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: So the question for, um, Governor Mason is that you're currently dangerous. Tell me, can you address that? Do you think you're currently dangerous?

INMATE DAVIS: No, I'm not currently dangerous. I’m not. I haven't been dangerous a short period of my life. And I was, it was bad. I was influenced. I was willing to be in (Unintelligible) right. I didn't, we wasn't having me do it now, if it's just, I just, Yes, I just, you know, I just hit on something that required me to do certain things I did it, and I didn't care. And if, and if, if Charlie said we're going to be the greatest ecologists and plant trees and flowers, I would have been the greatest flower planter the (Unintelligible) saw. When it comes down to this other thing, it was all just, it was just stuff, you know, it was just stuff. And that's how, that's how it felt to me. I wasn't thinking about it you know. I mean, it's, it's a terrible thing. I mean that I did, my goodness, but you know, I knew right from wrong. I didn’t care.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. Um, Counsel, do you have any clarifying questions? Oh, wait one second. Deputy Commissioner, any other questions?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Thank you. Commissioner, I don’t have any questions.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Um, Counsel, do you have any clarifying questions?

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: No questions Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. We can move into closing statements.

ATTORNEY BECKMAN: I don't even know what to say anymore. The last six panels granting my client parole. Last six Governors or three Governors over a period of sixth time. I've said, well, and I'm also pretty much the same thing. Um, my client doesn't take full responsibility for the crime. He has like insight into why he committed the crime? Oh, it's real nice to deal or say something like that when you do a paper review, but the six panels that granted my client parole spend anywhere from three to eight hours talking to him and the psychologist spent two to three hours talking to him. So, rather than me talking, I'm just going to read a couple of quotes here. This is 2010 from Dr. Factors risk assessment. In finding or in mitigating dynamic factors since the 2009 CRA, she stated “he has continued to develop a deeper level of insight and understanding regarding the causative factors, which contributed to his choices leading up to the life crime. His remorse for his actions and their effects on others also continues to grow and deepen. I’m going to fast forward three years, Dr. Pritchard's October 9th, 2013 risk assessment — he speaks openly and accepts responsibility for his behavior. He does not minimize, deflect from or deny his participation. He had spoken about the defense at great length over the years and has expressed increasing understanding and acceptance of the irresponsibility of participation. He speaks thoughtfully and with emotion. He is attempting the flow of elaborate thoughts, feelings, and not does he present in his self- assessment above. He does not try to rationalize or excuse his behavior. He expresses remorse openly without qualification. And he summarized that by saying the following, Mr. Bruce Davis is a 71-year-old man participated in a two violent acts in early adulthood when he was a member of an antisocial hedonistic and violent cult. He has no other significant criminal history outside of his association. While incarcerated, he has taking the option to improve his knowledge, attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs. His — areas of improvement develop a meaningful and self-correcting insight and self-awareness, and he can close the CRA with the following sentence. At this time, it seems a little more than he can do to further reduce his risk beyond just continuing to age. The panel, one of the panels, I'm just going to quote a little bit from that states well, we believe Mr. Davis does have sufficient insight into his previous criminality that could learn as a factors in his life from childhood on (Unintelligible) to actively involve himself with his frat brothers and kill Mr. Manson. And no one has to become directly involved in the events around the two murders. The DNC accepts responsibility for these two murder in appropriate fashion. (Unintelligible) the experts, the panel. I don't know whether they are experts. They certainly you guys are trained to, uh, determine and judge possibilities of recidivism. That's your job. Five to eight hours, eight hours with Mr. Davis, he concludes he does have sense, he takes full responsibility. He does have genuine remorse. So, and in general remorse for the crime, he's taking remorse for things that he's not legally responsible for. He stated remorse for every single act of the Manson family (Unintelligible) Oh, uh, I’m going to close by telling the best indication of the kind of man Bruce Davis is now is the declaration by Richard Kelly dated August 25th, 2009, in San Luis, Obispo. I Richard Kelly declare as follows. I spent more than 39 years of my life incarcerated between various counties and State Prisons. During this incarceration, I've had occasion to observe many self-professed Christians. Unfortunately over time, a personal observation has been that many of these “jail hospitalizations” are temporary or entirely failing. But in November of with 2005 I arrived at California Men's Colony, where I first met Bruce Davis and not withstanding my earlier observations over time I had observed Bruce Davis as the most consistently sober and genuine Christian I've ever had the pleasure to meet. And there, in the first year at CMC, I observed Mr. Davis on a daily basis under every circumstance, one would expect to find within a State Prison. And I would observe Bruce Davis in periods which would normally in general great stress in the average Inmate. Nevertheless, I have observed (Unintelligible) tracking and apparently unaffected. When confronted with potentially volatile circumstances I have observed him to be a force with palm. When Bruce was tested with personal character and (Unintelligible) I observed Bruce to maintain a positive attitude regardless of the adversity. But I have been housed within the CDCR for nearly 20 years (Unintelligible) have often been called upon to act as an intermediary, intermediary to the various Inmates, groups of Inmates as well as to Inmates and staff (Unintelligible) to exercise good judgment with regard to (Unintelligible). And notwithstanding this factor and recreational (Unintelligible) October, 2006 based on a perceived slight. (Unintelligible) attempt to murder, another Inmate. As long-term prisoner I am an active member of Alcohol motorcycle club for over 40 years, I'm in no stranger to violence. So, this was no passing fancy. I had every intention of carrying out an act of violence that prior to carrying out the planned attack, I asked Mr. Davis that I might have known at this time (Unintelligible) as it was rather late in the evening. Nevertheless, he agreed. As we began to walk around the exercise yard, I explained I was about — which would likely result in being placed in the hole, whatever that is being the case, I would not be able to say goodbye to a very good friend of mine. I explained that I had been watching him for a long time and I thought he was the new deal, a sincere Christian. (Unintelligible) in mind I wanted Bruce to look out for my friend. And tell him that I was sorry. I couldn’t tell him goodbye. Moreover, that I would appreciate if you would take my friend under his room as he was a new Christian trying to do the right thing. Again, (Unintelligible) insincere spurious attempts to impress the parole board or to hide behind a Bible. That sounds like something was terribly wrong. Bruce asked if I would sit down with him for a few moments. I agreed. (Unintelligible) asked him what the problem was, Bruce asked if he might share some things with me. Again, Bruce had began to share with me his observations (Unintelligible). I understand he wasn't going to be angry, bitter and in pain. He thought that he saw me as lost. He told me things that my closest friends had never said, never had the desire to purchase honey. He's more or less (Unintelligible) it certainly has nothing to do with my (Unintelligible). In the months which followed Bruce laid hands on me praying for my salvation. When we were listening, my sin filled life and from a lifestyle of crime. All over that I would be delivered from an angry, violent behavior. In that moment, we got to express some grace and transforming Christ in my life. He has to say or (Unintelligible) from my desire to harm the man, I had an ethical dilemma. And so I had to offer my frequencies and apology. However, it also illustrates the type of man Mr. Davis would become. My stories are important and (Unintelligible) your way Bruce helps to save two lives, day and night. However, on a daily basis I have observed Bruce to be a force both in and outside of the prison setting that I honestly believe Bruce would be an even greater asset (Unintelligible) to share the message of grace (Unintelligible) to salvation. That's the Bruce Davis is now. I hope you see it in your (Unintelligible). Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you. Now, Mr. Davis, now is your turn.

INMATE DAVIS: Now, I think we've heard a lot of evidence I guess we can call it evidence. What I was like before and what I am now. Um, I'm no longer addicted. And when you asked the question about addiction and when you said, are you an addict? At that point I saw, I saw an addict that is somebody that is shooting up and laying in the gutter and always in debt, acting crazy like (Unintelligible) do it. So, I love that. Never have been quite that way, but I am in recovery. I know I have addictive features. I know that and I recognize but, uh, that's what AA is helping me with, come to grips with just what it is and face myself and, um, tell myself the truth and ask so I'm, I'm on my way. I'm far from perfect. That's an understatement. I'm a long way from there but I've got, I've got the perfection of Christ. It's coming alive more and more every day. And I'm certainly confident that he's going to keep on perfecting me. That's the future. So, um, I have hope now, uh, I've connected with my real Father in heaven. Uh, I'm not looking for a father figure. I'm not avoiding people who really try to help me, who encourage me. I'm not in the way now and tell him I'm a grown man. You can't tell me no, I'm listening. I'm learning how to listen. So, so I, and I, and I don't have to, uh, I don't have to be agreed with now. Sometimes my patience runs. It kind of gets on that side, but, but I'm, I'm good at I'm good at being tolerant of other people's opinions and their points of view. I never wanted before. I couldn't stand it because anything that threatened me, I took it as a serious threat, but now I’ve realize that everybody has a point of view and they should have and I should, I should have zero expectation about what another person might think or, or what he's supposed to do or, and I suppose streaming. So, I don't, I don't have, um, before I was resentful. When the world didn't treat me like I felt I should be treated because at our early age, I felt like I'd been victimized because I didn't understand the reason for that punishment, I didn't understand it. And there was no, there was no apology coming, but I've realized a lot now. And I realized that there couldn't have been because they, they were, they didn't have any more an idea of it than I did, but now I know. And, and now I have a view of other people that they are valuable and, uh, I want to help. I want to be a part, I'm going to be a part of the solution as they say, not an important problem. And I believe that God has put me in a place where I can be an active part of the solution. And that's what my life is about now. I want to, I want to, I, I've grown up. I guess that that'd be a good way to say it. I just grew up. Now, it took me a while, but thank goodness I did. And, uh, so, uh, but I gave up having expectations on everybody around me, then the resentment and the hurt and all that, that just virtually faded away. I don't expect that. When I get respect and love and care, I love it. When I don't, they don't know me, nobody owes me anything. So, I have no expectation on that. I'm glad that it happened. I'm going to do what I can. And, um, I do appreciate your time today and thank you very much.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you. Okay. Um, Would Ms. Tate or Ms. Martley like to speak first.

VNOK MARTLEY: Tate, what would you like?

VNOK TATE: It's up to you.

VNOK MARTLEY: I'll, I'll go first. I had to turn my microphone on.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right.

VNOK MARTLEY: You can see me okay?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: I can see you fine.

VNOK MARTLEY: My name is Kay Martley. I'm here to speak for my cousin, Gary Hinman. And I would like to begin by reminding everyone about the circumstances of Gary’s murder. I don't want anyone to ever forget that in the last days of Gary’s life, he endured three days of brutal, unrelenting torture at the hands of Bruce Davis, Bobby Beausoleil (Unintelligible) and of course the leader of this group, Charles Manson. Bruce Davis would like to minimize his role in the Gary’s murder, but it was central to the conspiracy and actions that led to Gary’s death. — what they were going to do.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: May I stop you for a moment? We are getting really bad audio.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Could you put yourself on mute?

VNOK MARTLEY: It's not on my end.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Is that the institution.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Is the institution. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure we hear it. Is that sound in your background Ms. Martley? UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Are you hearing it okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Okay. We are hearing it here okay.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: There was just a lot of background noise. It's gone now though.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Please continue now.

VNOK MARTLEY: Friends of Gary's who telephoned the house were told by them that Gary had left town. They both made sure that no one was looking for Gary while they held him captive against his will. Bruce Davis later also dove Manson to the house and held the gun on Gary and watched Mr. Manson viciously attack and seriously wounded Gary’s ears with a sword. The two girls attempted to sew Gary's ear back on with dental floss. It was greatly exasperating his pain and eventually causing it to become badly infected. Then, they left Gary’s body to literally rot in the summer heat in his house. The carpet was soaked with Gary's blood. Gary was a gentle soul, highly educated, a musician working on his PhD in social work, and a productive citizen. When someone needed a place to stay Gary’s home was open to them. Gary had become a follower of Buddhism the last few years of his life. The Manson Group have tried to tarnish Gary’s reputation by saying he was involved with drugs. What they really were after was money, but Gary didn't have any. So, they made him sign over his old cars when there was no more access for them to steal, Charlie Manson instructed them to kill Gary. The perpetrators have testified that Gary begged for his life, chanting Buddhist prayers. He even forgave them for what they did to him, but to no avail. Bruce Davis in his Manson family cohorts are all psychopaths. (Unintelligible) in the past. They will remain psychopaths. There is no cure for a psychopath. Due to the seriousness of his crimes and his involvement in the two murders of Gary and Donald Shea, the death sentence, Mr. Davis received later commuted to life imprisonment was both legal and fair. You, as a board should uphold that sentence by refusing parole. For reasons of public safety, Bruce Davis should remain in prison. Twice as in 2017 parole hearing Bruce lost his temper when he was being questioned by Commissioner Cynthia Crips. Twice, he raised himself out of his seat during the Commissioners questioning when confronted with the details of Donald Shay's murder. Twice the Commissioner Crips responded don't get mad at me and no you don't or else you wouldn't have snapped like that. This is on pages 118 and 119 of the 2017 transcript. If Bruce Davis acts out like this in a controlled setting, what would he do in similar circumstances if he enters society. Some Inmates should never be released because of the horror of their crime and the impact on humanity's safety. Bruce Davis is one such person. Yes, he is 78 years old, but he's not physically handicapped. He has not changed and has the exact same personality traits he had 52 years ago. In July 2019, a 77-year-old man that had been released a few years earlier from prison, murdered his mother age is no impediment to committing murder. His surviving incarcerated members of the Manson family all have legal representation who writes — from experience are capable and often paid by unknown resources, but no longer allowing any Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney to attend these parole hearings to represent victim’s families, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascon has in fact denied victim's families the benefit from the same type of legal representation. This means we have no one to ask questions on our behalf, make reference to the clinician reports in legal record or Inmate’s prior history. We are unable to read the 10 day packet. We have nobody to give an overview or advocate on our behalf. My understanding to the summary of the 10 day packet given to me by the Deputy District Attorney, Julia Walker is that there's still much to be concerned about regarding Bruce Davis' suitability for parole. It raises many serious questions such as why does Mr. Davis continue to minimize his role in culpability in the murder of both Gary and Donald Shay? Why does he continue to minimize the depth of his involvement and his devotion to the Manson and the family? Why is Bruce Davis after more than half a century still unable to instill remorse for the two lives that were taken and the devastating impact of that loss on the victim's family. How can he be so devoid of empathy that he believes it would be appropriate to undertake two of (Unintelligible) about his crimes if he were ever released as he has expressed a desire to in prior hearings. And finally, even as recently as 2016 hearing, Bruce Davis continues to idolize Manson. Sorry and finally, excuse me, I have to start again. And finally, even as recently as 2016 hearing Bruce Davis continues to idolize Manson, he says Manson was his kind of guy. Bruce Davis says over and over that Manson was a father figure. Yet he says his own father was a poor father. Why then was Manson a good choice. Who would be his next father figure if he is released. After hearing what is in the packet I ask myself, is Bruce Davis really suitable for parole? The answer should be no. My family has suffered great heartache and much trauma, which also will be with us, which always will be with us. I have been attending parole hearings in my cousin’s memory for many years, and I have made many statements in Gary's memory. God willing, I will continue to be able to do that so neither Gary or his heinous murder by the Manson family are forgotten. I and more than 30 of mine and Gary's cousins and family members ask you to deny Bruce Davis parole due to the severity and his lack of insight into his crimes for that and other reasons we believe he still poses a great risk to society.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you very much. Ms. Tate.

VNOK TATE: Yes, Commissioners and Mr. Davis and Mr. Beckman. I would want you to look at my pile from my own notes as well as the 10-day packet, which was shared with me. I would like to add Kay did a very good job of covering many things, but I still have a lot to add into the record and, uh, contrary to Mr. Beckman, who has a tendency as all Defense Attorneys tend to want to cherry pick the good things. There are bad things in this 10 day packet from the clinician as early as the 2020 report that states that she feels that Mr. Davis is still minimizing his involvement. I was in the room in the 2000 hearing when Mr. Davis came out of his chair and I'm going to elaborate on this because it had left an everlasting life effect on me. He did not like the questioning direction that the female Commissioner was asking him. And he came out of his chair that means stand up. He leaned across the table with an extended finger to the, and kept moving forward to the point that she had to roll her chair back till it hits the wall and then stand up out of her chair in fear that he would eventually lay hands on her. The second time he stood up out of his chair he simply did that. He stood up out of his chair, but this was a setting. This was a woman that had his fate in her hands and he still couldn't control himself because he suddenly didn't like what she had to say. I don't think that the programming that Mr. Davis has done, uh, on, on control, Anger Management, et cetera, et cetera has been very effective yet. And it was demonstrated in very clearly in that 2017 hearing. It has been demonstrated in various psychological reports by various clinicians from 2015, 2016, 2017, and now 2020. And I believe that I would like to think that Commissioners, that you would take these things I do believe you have into consideration, but the truth of the matter is, is that these transcripts are released online before even us, the victim’s family can get them, that time period is 20 days, but somehow they are getting out to the public in 15 days. And because things are not spoken clearly into the record, the public has an unrealistic view of Mr. Davis’s (Unintelligible). Now, I am extremely fair person and I would give anybody credit where credit is due. Mr. Davis has made beneficial strides, although extremely small strides they maybe, he has made them, but he's not there yet. And that 2017 hearing was a demonstration. That was a very scary moment for all of us and for that reason that that's the one that hits at home. I have no books for examples of this. If you would like me to, I can read them into record as part of my victim statement because this is how Mr. Davis makes me and thousands of other people still feel and it is, that is a double edge sword. I don't want Mr. Davis to be put in that position. I, it's not only for our own protection, our own, meaning society, it is for Mr. Davis’s protection. I don't want somebody else to go after him and have their family have to mourn them being incarcerated or going through the very long process in which Mr. Davis can attest, uh, just because, uh, the system has broken down and no longer protects us. Now, I would like to take a moment to speak into record about some of Mr. Davis's friends who he has admitted to, uh, writing to monthly that they have admitted that, um, they are very dear friends that have offered him employment. As Mr. Davis states, he's no longer affected by gangs. However, these people are neo-Nazis, active members out here on the Internet, very easy to find. They are neo-Nazis. Now, in my opinion, I think that's a cult. It's a counter culture group that is very disruptive. We just saw examples of that in our Capitol. This is something that Mr. Davis (Unintelligible) his offensive crime was committed on the backs of starting a race war. He is the last person that should ever be involved with these kinds of people, yes, many of his friends that are willing to offer him support and many of his friends, which today he stated he wants to spend time with happened to be neo-Nazi. I have a problem with that. I think that that could be a huge trigger. I think that's something the board should consider looking into. And if you decide to grant him parole, I would hope to think that you put language in that when protect myself, I'm never protected in the parole grant as far as stay away from family members, it should be family members, and anybody that is a family representative and or triggers such as friends that belong to radical, violent, racist groups. These are, these are things that I just can't. There's huge question marks, huge lags, and they keep me awake. They’ve kept me awake for about the last 10 days, very disturbing. And I think the public would be very disturbed to find that out now they are going to be because I just (Unintelligible). Now, that's pretty much all. I'm not going to go through all this because it's redundant, but I would like you to weigh, take heavy weight on the words that I said and I thank you for your time. Thank you very much.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Thank you. All right. The time is 12. Can you hear me?

VNOK TATE: Yes,

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: You can?

INMATE DAVIS: Yes.

VNOK TATE: Yes, I can now.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. The time everybody is 12:53 pm. We're going to take a break until 1:15. Um, are the officer's there?

UNIDENTIFIED CORRECTIONAL OFFICER: Yes, your honor.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Um, don't bring, um, Mr. Davis in right at 12:15. You guys can come on and I'll let you know when to bring him in.

CORRECTIONAL OFFICER: Okay. It’s all good.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. All right. So, I’ll see everybody at 1:15.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: All right. We're back on. We're on the record.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: Okay. We're back on the record. This is the decision space for Mr. Bruce Davis B41079. The date is January 22nd, 2021. And the time is 1:23 pm. Everybody who started this hearing has now returned. All right, Mr. Davis, we must determine if you continue to pose an unreasonable risk to public safety and the denial of parole must be based on evidence in the record of your current dangerousness. Based on the legal standards and the evidence considered, we find that you do not pose an unreasonable risk to public safety and therefore are, um, suitable for parole okay.

INMATE DAVIS: Yes, ma’am.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: I'm going to read into how we have come to that decision all right. We did take into consideration the factors of elderly parole and were required to give special consideration to your age, long-term confinement and diminished physical condition if any when determining your suitability, the evidence that we used in making this decision information from your Central File. We did review your confidential file and that was not pertinent to our decision today. Your Comprehensive Risk Assessment, additional documents that have been submitted throughout this hearing, written responses received from the public, your testimony, statements from the victims today and previous statements, and evidence, while we did not have any evidence today from the District Attorney's office, but I did read on transcripts from previous hearings. All right, first, we're going to talk about the facts that aggravate your risk or the negative things. Self-control throughout your criminal history, um, during that summer of 1969, you were unable to control your behavior as a result of the following. You associated with negative peers and you associated with others who've engaged in criminal and substance abusing behavior. You responded to anger, jealousy, rejection, and anxiety, and antisocial ways. You perceived others to be a threat and acted preemptively. You were easily manipulated and more likely to follow others rather than to follow them off. You were manipulative in ways to avoid the law. You were impulsive and you failed to recognize or think of consequences of committing crimes or engaging in other anti-social behavior. You had poor decision making. You were callous towards others and you had a criminal attitude. All right, the following are facts that mitigate your risk. These would also be known as the good things. First, your Comprehensive Risk Assessment has given you a low risk for future violence. I'm going to read a passage from the risk assessment. Over the course of his incarceration, Bruce Davis has abstained from non-violence as well as substance use for several decades. He has involved himself in vigorous self-help program and spiritual and religious practices obtaining a sense of purpose and belongingness through these activities. He has growing insight into the factors that contribute to his interest in the cult and the positive factors to his violence. He has had opportunities to engage in gang and other violent groups. So, he has had no non involvement in prison gangs where such groups may have not offered benefits to his interest, his full plans of care commensurate with his risk needs despite some lingering concerns about his propensity for exercising poor judgment and lacking empathy such as through public discussion, discussing his crime and or having towards. These actions will not recommend it do not appear to directly impact his violent risk. Signs of increasing risk include, but are not limited to associating with negatively influencing peers, over engagement and religious and other spiritual interest groups, the use of alcohol or illicit substances, or significant life stressors. Um, we found also mitigating your criminal and parole history. You were not on any supervised release at that time of the crime. You didn’t have a few arrest — around for marijuana and all your criminal behavior was over like a one-year span of time. Um, programming we find that also mitigating. Uh, um, you've been, you've taken pretty much all the programs that have been available to you. You've also mentored, been a mentor in the programs and taking the LTOP programs, AA programs. Um, you've taken programs every, every year especially, I think you've taken them to heart since 2008. And that gives you 12 to 13 years of intense programming. You've gone through the 12 steps. Um, you've received several laudatory Chronos from your participation in programs. And, um, you've also made charitable donations. Your institutional behavior, we found mitigating. You have had, um, either less counseling Chronos were 1975 and 1980 for disobeying orders and then you had one in 1992. You had no serious or violent rule violations in your entire span of being incarcerated. And that's been since what, um, 1972. Um, offender change, we’ve spent a lot of time discussing how when you first came into prison in the early seventies, you were completely in denial. You didn't want to talk about your crime. And, um, you had no empathy, no remorse for anyone, you just didn't care and you only cared about your needs about four years into your incarceration. Um, you, we talked about how you, others, you started to understand what death was and you heard another Inmate being murdered. And at first you were numb and then that got you thinking and thinking about his family and the impact that that murder had on, um, the, the prison community as well as his own family and community. And then over time and it was like you said, a very slow gripping time because if you look back at all your old, um, um, parole reports and things, during the seventies and eighties and nineties, you still were extremely minimizing and in denial and really you made started talking about what you were doing, but you spent more time talking about what you didn't do is trying to put yourself in a positive light. And then you talked about it at around 2009, you and another, um, long-term offender began talking about your crimes. You talked about your 2008 parole board, and that started to open your eyes and then I think over the last 12, 13 years, we finally have come around to today. You’ve made a very good presentation. I did find you to be open and honest and understanding, um, of what your actions caused. Um, I think you made a very good honest presentation today. Your release plan, um, we have taken into consideration Ms. Tate, Ms. Debra Tate's, um, statements that you are associating with white supremacy groups and so we will be requesting an investigation on that. And if anything comes up in that investigation, that could change the course of this decision, but for now it's still a grant that we are, um, the BPH investigative unit will look into that. Um, for your release plan, we note that you were willing to go on to transitional housing, that you do have several friends in, um, that are out there to help you. Um, you talked about that you will get some social security to support yourself. Um, this is from the CRA Mr. Davis has plans for future use of professional services as well as his living situation appear adequate and do not appear to aggravate his violence. I mean, you did talk about 12 step being a part of your life. Um, Mr. Davis, he appears to have a lot of personal support, much of which was established to individuals with interest in his case. That is unclear if some of these support would have a positive impact on his judgment. So, that's what I'm talking about. We'll look into that in an investigation. Um, we've also talked about how you'll rely on parole and the services that are offered to parole. Um, there also is a case specific factor and that is your health concerns and health needs. And you talked about having emphysema and you're about to get a hip replacement and, um, chronic health conditions have a mitigating impact, um, for on your, um, safety or, um, limiting his mobility and ability to walk. There's no indication of recent competent decline that would negatively impact his violence. And then again, we gave consideration to the elderly for considerations. Deputy Commissioner Chambers.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: Thank you, Mr. Davis, like the six panels before us, uh, dating back to 2010, this panel determined that you are suitable for parole under the criteria that we may consider. Uh, this was a joint decision of the panel. And while there are certain aggravating factors present as outlined by the Commissioner, we found those to be outweighed by the mitigating factors, uh, you did present well today, sir. Uh, and under some quite some pressure from our questioning, we acknowledge that. Uh, and, and we'll tell you that overall, you did, you did a fine job, uh, explaining, uh, to us really the, the causes and conditions surrounding the life crime. That's all Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right, based on these findings, we conclude that you do not pose an unreasonable risk of danger or threat to public safety and accordingly the panel finds you suitable for parole. Now in closing, this decision is not final and it will be reviewed by the board for up to 120 days followed by a review by the Governor for up to 30 days. You'll be notified in writing if there are any changes to this decision. If you are released from prison, you will be subjected to the general conditions of parole required by law as well as any special conditions of parole imposed by the Division of Adult Parole Operation. Based on the statutory authority, the panel orders the following special conditions of parole are to participate in transitional housing at the discretion of your parole agent. And that putting the amount of time, um, whether you will go into that, um, with COVID, there's some difficulty sometimes in finding transitional housing. So, that is something that you I parole will work on, um. All right. You're not to have contact or communicate with the family of your deceased victims as well as anybody, any victims of the Manson family okay. And I understand that it's nine, nine, um, victims as well as their families. You're not to have any contact or communication with them. You also are not to have any contact or communication with your crime partners or members of the Manson family unless you have prior written approval from your parole agent. Okay. Regarding substance abuse and marijuana, you were to submit to random anti-narcotic testing and that includes marijuana. You are, um, not to enter any establishments where, you know, or reasonably should know the sale or consumption of alcohol as the establishment's primary source of business, that'd be in bars and liquor stores. You are to continue with your substance abuse relapse prevention and recovery efforts such as Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, or equivalent non- religious efforts. I’m also putting the gang prohibitions on because I see the Manson family as a gang. And then there was some concern about any involvement in prison. So, you're not to actively participate and promote further or assist in any prison gang, disruptive group or criminal street gang activity. You're not to associate with any prison gang, disruptive group, or criminal street gang activity well that prior written approval from your parole agent. So, in that case if you are working on any, get anti-gang or anti, um, gang prevention, or with younger Inmates if your parole agent says that's okay and you have a written approval that's permitted and you don't have to wear or carry any gang colors or signs, symbols or paraphernalia associated with gang activity. Deputy Commissioner, did I miss anything?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER CHAMBERS: I believe you've covered it Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER SAN JUAN: All right. I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this hearing today. The time is 1:37 P.M. Good luck, sir.