Category Archives: Audio Archives

Audio Archives: Paul Crockett, Friday, October 3, 1969, Inyo County Interview – Part Two

Tuesday, January 15th, 2013

“He said helter skelter is coming down”

Jan. 15 – In part two of the October 3, 1969 Paul Crockett interview, Paul talks about getting nervous after shots were heard fired around the same time a Park Ranger and Highway Patrolman were in the area of the Barker Ranch.

The original analog reel-to-reel recording speeds up and down. We have attempted to correct this, but due to its gradual effect, the end result is still far from perfect.

PAUL CROCKETT: So, at this moment, it is my opinion that he is a very dangerous man. That his whole idea now is to kill as many cops, as he calls them, “pigs.” Or, he calls, anyone that works with law officers in any way, they’re the beast. And he has told me, he will take great pride in taking as many as he can before they get him.

And so, it is my word against, I don’t know what. Take it for what it’s worth. He will try to kill as many as he can if he sees that he is going to be killed. And he’s talked about, if they come in on him – with helicopters and all of this and that and the other, if they bring in the Marines, or they National Guard, that the one thing he can do is to scare havoc into all of these people. That he will personally charge right into them with his knife swinging – this was before he had the two guns – the shotguns he has now. But that, he’d try to take as many as he could. And all of the women have been programmed to do exactly as he do – as he does, and they all have knives. And so it will be fun, to apprehend the man. So I would suggest, if there is anyway possibly, take him all at once, or cut them off one at a time. Would be the only possible way to get this man. Because he’s insane in my mind. And he doesn’t care what he does, how he does it, when he does it, or where he does it. And so, he told me – just before I parted, and walked out – that, I should be more afraid of him, then the law, because I had mentioned I had been offered for an aiding and abetting a fugitive from justice. And that they promised me, a little problem or a little trouble. And he said I should be more afraid of him, then I was of the law. And he said it with a straight face, calmly and everything else. And that is the first time that he has ever put on a straight face with me.

I took him for his word. And I got Brooks Poston. And we packed up three or four cans of, canned food. And we walked out, 20 miles out to Warm Springs, to get out of there. Because I felt my usefulness to him, had already vanished. And that, he would – if he considered it necessary – liquidate me immediately, if not sooner. Because he didn’t figure that I wasn’t any value to him anymore.

Now the insistences that I’ve just referring to – is, uh, just as I left the canyon, was brought to ahead approximately four or five days ago, when I was down the canyon helping Charlie, bring some of this stuff up. Now, all this time he had been telling me that all this stuff has been purchased on credit cards. And that there wasn’t nothing hot. That there was, no thing at the Barker Ranch, that was not legal, and all of this.

Now, as I was carrying in this old, orange Power Wagon – a bunch of batteries, tires, tubes, and uh, battery acid, and uh, all kinds of equipment that this man could use for, what he considered his dune buggies, and his game, all of a sudden it materialized into the fact, that he really was, nuts. That he was, being pursued by the law. Because all-of-a-sudden I was confronted by a highway patrolman and a park ranger. And they wanted to know, what it was, that I was doing. And what I had in the truck. And what was going on.

At this point, I, was a little squeamish. I didn’t know exactly what was going on, what was taking place. But I had been expecting, officers to come if he was, playing a kind of, crazy game that he was playing. And so, I wasn’t really too surprised. So at this time I told them, “well, I’ll tell you what. I’m going back up to the ranch.” This is my conversation with the two officers. And that uh, uh I’m just gonna back up right now. They wanted to know where I had been. And I told them I had been down to the mouth of the wash. And I gave them the names of Juan Flynn and Paul Watkins. That they were going out to get supplies. And uh, make arrangements for us to go to another place. And, I hadn’t told the officers anything at this time, ‘cause uh, I didn’t know what was coming. Or whether it was time to move or what. But I had to find out more, so they pursued me, with language to the extent, they said, now uh. They asked me about two girls that were in my cabin. And I didn’t know any two girls were there. And they thought I was lying to them. And I really didn’t know they were there.

And so, they said, “Well – tell me something. What’s the matter with you? How come you’re not telling us what’s going on?” And I said, “Well, I kind of value my body.” And they said “What do you mean by that?” And so, I told them that I didn’t want to uh, express myself in any form, matter or fashion, that would jeopardize my body. Because I kind of liked it, and I like living. And that, uh, that I didn’t care, to be uh, pushed to – any too great extent, at this moment. And they were really nice. And they went along with me. And so, they said, “Well, uh, can you tell us a little bit about what’s going on?” And I said, “Yup, sure can.” And so, the Power Wagon, I was driving, didn’t – the battery wasn’t strong enough to, uh, start it. So I would have to kill the engine, and uh, to do our talking.

And so, we decided to go on back up to the ranch. And we drove on into the ranch and I began to tell them as little as I could, without getting, what you might called, stirred up emotionally. Because, I didn’t know, just exactly how the whole thing stood up – whether they were ready to come down on the guy at all. Or whether they were just in there on a hunch. Or what was coming? They wouldn’t tell me anything. Because, as I find out later, they didn’t know which side I was on. Or whether I was on a side or not. And so we came back to the ranch. And at that particular point, I began to tell them what I considered a map that I had seen the red Toyota that I had heard stories about, a lot of different vehicles, that they had this and that and that that they had miles and miles of telephone wire and that they had two telephones that they could stretch out for several miles over the desert and which way they could inform themselves whenever anybody was coming from certain directions and this and that and the other. Now, those spools of wire are not there at the ranch anymore, they did bring them in. So they have them spun out somewhere and I’m not aware of where these things are but there are in that desert area somewhere. And I haven’t seen them since, but I know they brought them in.

And so Charlie has set up the whole thing, it’s kind of like a story book. It’s all working out just like he said it was. And so he was going to have his problems. He said helter skelter is coming down. The only helter skelter that I can see is the helter skelter that he’s built in his own mind, that he’s created for himself. And all the people that are with him. And to him, that will be helter skelter and it will come down. And this is what I showed Brooks Poston and these other boys, that that’s what he’s doing. And that they were, if they stayed where they were, that they were going to be right in the middle of the bombshell too and so they decided to leave him.

All of this, this is part of the story that I was relating to the officers. I told them as much as I could without getting too involved myself because I didn’t know what was going to happen and so I didn’t know how much I could say, when to say it, or how, because this Charlie, he had his girls, or himself. He can sneak into your camp, he can sit six feet from you in the back of a window or something like that and hear everything that is going on and then the next time he sees you he tell you your whole conversation and he starts laughing like that at you and tells you how stupid you are and so I had two officers there, I didn’t know whether the guy would be bold enough, brash enough, because I didn’t know where he was, I didn’t know whether he was ten miles away, a hundred miles away, or six feet, and so at that particular time, I didn’t feel like just jumping up and telling them everything I knew until I found more out and whether the officers really knew or had anything on Charlie and he said, well, they tried to bust him in Los Angeles and had to let him go and so from this moment on, I wasn’t sure that I wanted to say anything yet because everything hadn’t come to a head and I didn’t want to get out of there because he was trying to run me out and I knew he was trying to run me out because he considered that his place and so that evening from what he told me, Charlie told me that the officers had his whole crew backed up against the wall down in the canyon. He came running up through the canyon. Now how he got loose, got out of it or wasn’t involved in it, I don’t know, but I had a double barrel shotgun shotgun back in my cabin and said that he hadn’t done nothing and said that he just went running around from rock to rock, sticking his head over the rock and scaming the officers ***

Brooks said he heard shots over the hill that he couldn’t hear just exactly what it was but something like it’s all over or something to that effect.

This was on a Monday and it was the first day that the officers came into the area and it would be about the 29th of September, the last of September, but it would be the last Monday of September.

So after this incident, there was the three shots, what Brooks told me and this and that, and the other really got me just a mite nervous because we didn’t know just exactly what to expect, whether the law officers had gone, whether they had been killed or whether there was a gun battle or just exactly what had happened. And so we didn’t do much sleeping that night because we was sitting up on one ear and one eyeball open all night long, waiting to see what was going to happen. But nobody — yes, Charlie did come back into camp that night and they had a dune buggy with no engine in it in the yard and they came out with this guy named Tex and one girl by the name of Linda and they told me to help him carry the motor which they had stashed in the canyon up from the house back to the place. I went with them, I helped them put the thing in a wheelbarrow. I pulled it back and they stayed there until about three o’clock in the morning until they had the motor on this dune buggy and drove off.

The next morning, approximately daylight, the same two officers that I had confronted down the canyon when I was coming back, came up to the cabin and wanted to know if anybody had come into the camp that night and I said yes they had, that they had come in, they had put the motor on the dune buggy and that they had drove off daybreak, whether they left or anything like that, but I don’t think that they ever left the area.

This Charlie and the whole bunch went down the road, down the canyon, taking shots at everything *** that they came to, turning that dune buggy around, making noise and going all over the place. Pretty soon they came back and went up the other canyon toward Mingo Pass, they made tracks all over the place and then I didn’t hear anymore noise after that. I didn’t know just exactly where they were or where they stayed or anything else.

And so the next day they all started to come and pretty soon all the officers came up to our house, up to the ranch there where we were and then they sat down and we talked and talked and talked and we had seven officers there. There was one park ranger and the rest of them were sheriffs and highway patrol and I gave them as much information to show them on which side I stood but one of the officers didn’t believe that I was working, *** and they talked about me coming into town or staying there either one and at that time Charlie still figured I was valuable to him, so I figured he would leave me alone, that as long as I had value for him that he would leave me alone and that I would stay and see what else I could find out, but I didn’t tell the officers this.

And so the next day — they told me that if he came back again that I should come out and they wanted me to get the old Power Wagon I had and drive out and I wouldn’t drive out in the Power Wagon for all the grits in Dixie because I figured he was somewhere in an area where he could watch any vehicle that was going in or out any area, any entrance.

I told them if I left, I would probably have to walk out — over the mountains because he would be watching all the roadways. And so they told me that if he came back into

And so the next day he didn’t show up. This is the day before you came out wasn’t it. Nobody showed up at all. It was completely quiet. This was the day when the spotter planes were over looking and trying to locate or find any movement at all, anything about where he was and it was quiet around the ranch. We just sat around and cooked a little, and stood around and didn’t know what was going on and that night I heard a noise in my cabin, so me and Brooks want out and got the two guns out of the cabin and carried them over to where we were sitting on the porch and kept them there with us.

In the process, I pulled the doors almost shut to where it’s hard to open and close and you can’t hardly open and close it without making a lot of noise. Pretty soon I heard a noise and the dog, I have a german shepherd over there, which growled. But he didn’t pursue it any and later I found out when we went back to check the cabin and the door was all the way open and we weren’t sure just exactly who came in but I figured he had sent one of the girls down to steal the guns. And I knew I didn’t want any more guns in his hands. So we kept the guns. Everywhere we went, we walked with the guns so that we wouldn’t prop them somewhere so somebody could come and sneak in there. He had a half dozen girls chasing around to grab the guns out.

At this time it’s Wednesday night and we’ve got the guns. We’re carrying them around with us. We go to bed. And around two o’clock in the morning, Charlie and one guy by the name of Tex drives up into the yard, and he gives us some tobacco.

Audio Archives: Paul Crockett, Friday, October 3, 1969, Inyo County Interview – Part One

Saturday, January 12th, 2013

“He borders on genius. And yet, he’s so idiotic, its ridiculous”

Jan. 14 – For this installment of the Audio Archives series, we travel back to Friday, October 3, 1969 and listen to an interview with Paul Crockett that laid the groundwork for the two Barker Ranch raids.

The original analog reel-to-reel recording speeds up and down. We have attempted to correct this, but due to its gradual effect, the end result is still far from perfect.

PAUL CROCKETT: My home for the last 25 years has been Carlsbad, New Mexico. Then with some business associates that I ran that – with, were interested in mining properties, so I was there lead man out in front of the field. And I had made contacts in Wickenburg, Arizona, with a man that knew this area and told me the potential of it. And so after dealing with him for several months, I found he was just leading me on, oh, a merry chase to see how much money he could bleed out of me. And, the one place that I really believed that he had, that was worth investigating, was in Golar Canyon. And since I have found that possibly he was right but it still needs more work done to prove it, to a, financial business asset.

So, in the first week of March, of this year, 1969, I came to Golar Canyon and came to the Barker Ranch with the other man that was with me by the name of Bob Berry. Now he had been in here, in this canyon, in December of 1968 and he saw all of these girls. And uh, being the type that he was, well he wanted to come back, because he figured he could come back and have himself a little pleasure at their expense. And so I know at this time that was his real motive for coming back. But my motive for coming here, was, to see if I couldn’t make this a profitable business adventure.

So, on the night that I arrived, I met Brooks Poston and Juanita Wildbush, or Joan Wildbush. And uh, they were living in the big house on the ranch. And we talked to them for awhile and uh, then uh Bob, said he would go – and we would go and stay in the cabin that was just, to the left of the house, as you face the ranch. In the days that followed, I became, um, more acquainted with these people. And everyday this Bob Berry and myself would go walking across the hills, and we would go and inspect, old mine sites, old diggings. We would bring uh, samples of ore down, we would – crush these samples of ore and pan them and check them out for their contents of this yellow metal we were looking for called gold.

And in the meantime, Bob’s attentions were becoming more directed at this Juanita Wa – Wildbush. But at first, he thought she was the most stupid woman that he had ever met in his life and that she was completely ignorant, that she didn’t have any sense whatsoever. In a sense, he had developed what might be call a hate for her. And uh, being that I had been watching human nature for years, I figured this was one way he had been tying himself up. That he didn’t even realize he was doing. But I figured, if that’s what he wanted to do, that was his business.

So I would go, with him, over the mountains. And the first three weeks we were there, I would surmise, that we walked, approximately, 250 or 300 miles, over the hills of Golar Canyon, back down to Wingate Wash, over into Panamint Range. Back down the other side – on the other side, to what is called the January Jones mines – which is, a very difficult place to go. We went to a place called the Crescent Mine, the Panamint Queen. I did – had gone through all of the workings, of all the hills around there. And it’s impressive to see the amount of work that has been done, in this area.

As the time went on, we began to filter out the places that seemed, possible good prospects, and those that weren’t. And we finally settled down to some places, that uh, looked like were pretty good. So we went to work carrying ore down the mountains, to run sample tests and all of this. And some of it looked good, some of it didn’t look, too good. And we kept working and working and working. In the meantime, when we would come in the evenings, Brooks and Juanita – we would sit in the evenings and talk. And we began to learn and hear about Charlie. And uh, I couldn’t believe what they were saying. I mean it was uh, so, utterly ridiculous – that uh, I thought they were just talking. I thought they were nuts. That uh, no man could possibly be doing the things that he was talking about. And so uh, I paid very little of a – attention to it. So, they seemed so afraid of this Charlie that – I even implanted them with the idea that I had the power to keep Charlie from coming back up there. And so, they accepted this idea. And so, poor ol’ Charlie later on, in his ventures, tried to come back – everytime he tried to come up there – so he told me, later. That uh, he would try to come, and the truck would blow up and wouldn’t go. Or the Police would stop him and arrest him. And, uh, it was all my fault. That I was some kind, of a big deity, sitting up on the hill, that was trying to keep him from doing what he had to do for all the people of the world. And that I was in his way.

And uh, we had one boy, named, Paul Watkins – that had come to town a couple of times – that he had told Charlie this. And so Charlie didn’t know who I was, but he had heard of me. And so I was already a threat to him. And so this is one of the reasons he wanted to kill me, because I was in his way.

And uh, in the meantime, as we went along, I got Brooks to go work with me. To get him out of the letharacy state – as I call it – that he was in. To get him to climb mountains, to do things, to build his physical body back up, to where, he could be a man again. And then, one of the other boys came – this Paul Watkins came. And he decided to quit Charlie and come and go with me too. Because, it was, I made more sense to them, then he did. And I could explain to them, what Charlie was doing. That it was ridiculous, it was idiotic, that it had, no value what-so-ever to them.

And so by this time, I had already stolen Charlie’s, top man – or one of his men. That he considered on of his good men, because he was able to participate better than anyone else in a sex act. And so, he didn’t like this at all. I had stolen this Paul Watkins – because was supposed to be a good fucker, as the word was put around.

I had stolen Brooks Poston. And then later on, another one of the guys he had been trying to capture, came up and he wanted to know if he could stay with me too. Because he didn’t have anyplace to go because by this time they had busted Spahn’s Ranch. And so, by this time I had stolen from him – in his mind – three of his men. And so he was very angry with me. He had never seen me. He didn’t know who I was. But I must be some kind of big medicine because, people were leaving him, to go with me – more-or-less to speak.

And so I was using these men to pack ore off the mountain. And the guy who was bringing me supplies, was bring extra supplies so I could feed them.

And so his first idea when he came to the top of, what is called Golar Wash, or to the Barker Ranch. His – He told me that – a few days later, that uh, “did you know that I had planned to kill you?” And I said, “Yes, I knew that you had planned to kill me, because of the way you acted.” And then a couple days later, a couple of the girls came up to me and told me, “Did you know that Charlie was, going to kill you?” And I said, “Well, he told me he planned to do so.”

And so, by this time I had figured that, I had best make myself valuable to this man, or he would kill me. So he wanted to know, how it was that I got Brooks, and Paul, and Juan, to quit him and to go with me. Because he knew he had the power to get people to do anything he wanted to once he got them – what he was more interested in was. How did I get – undo what he had already done to them?

So this Charlie – we are referring to this Juan – Juan Flynn, who worked at Spahn’s Ranch. And who also worked with movie producers, in producing many movies. Not many, but worked on a couple. And he had just come back from, Montana, Las Vegas, and some other places where they had filmed, a first rate movie with first rate – first rate actors, which I’m not as – oh, I don’t know who they are just at the moment. But I can find the names for you, if it’s necessary. And uh, that uh, when he went back to Spahn’s Ranch, after he filmed the movie. He was there, when the police came down, in, their helicopters and uh, the whole works, when they made the big bust there, and confiscated all of Charlie’s, material, as he called it, that was his, that he had worked for two years to put together –

MALE SPEAKER: (inaudible.)

PAUL CROCKETT: This was approximately a month and a half, or two months ago from this date, which is October the 3rd, 1969.

And so, this is what they call the big bust, when they went into Spahn’s Ranch, and took him and all these people to jail. Now Juan was very perturbed, because, he hadn’t done anything. He didn’t know what it was all about. And he was mad at the law for taking him in and putting him to jail, because he hadn’t done anything. And so he came up and uh, at this point, he could’ve very easily been swung to go with, this Charlie. Because uh, now he was mad at the them because they had him in jail with all the rest of those people.

And so I talked to him and uh, I’d like to impress upon your mind, the fact that Charlie had threaten his life – in the presence of me and Brooks both – several times. And that, “If you don’t go with me,” Charlie said, “then I’ll kill you.” And Juan is a veteran of Vietnam – for what he tells me. And that he, saw plenty of killing, and did plenty of killing. And that he is not going to let this Charles run over him. And, I would personally consider, that I had talked him out of killing, Charlie, a couple of times. Because the man is not dangerous, but he was provoked and provoked and provoked and provoked and provoked, until I could hardly blame him if he did. Because this guy would grab him around the neck, by the hair on his head. Stick the point of the knife to his throat, and says, “Do you give up?” And he was trying to impress upon the man that what he should do is, everything Charlie wanted him to do. Anywhere from murder, rape, stealing automobiles, to go and do anything he wanted him to do. And this Juan did not want to do, and was not going to do. And he would tell me in kind of a, symbols, that he would do what he had to do if this guy didn’t leave him alone. But he never came out and openly said that he would kill him. But I know that’s what he meant.

And so if Juan – he will be coming back into Golar Canyon, in, a few days. And he went out to find another place for us to live, where we could work. Until these guys were apprehended by the law, or whatever happened, because it just wasn’t safe up there – because this guy was getting wilder and wilder and wilder.

And so, Juan will be coming up with some papers to where we could go – a place in the high Sierra. This place in the high Sierra was a little town called Olancha. And we were going to there until this whole thing blew over, until Charlie was apprehended. Or whatever was necessary to get him out of where we were working. So that uh, we could uh, go back and continue our work.

And, so, it is of my opinion, that – if you – he will probably be coming in on the Ballarat Road. Or through that area there. So if you could stop this man, and not let him back in there. But – to keep him from going back in there, because I’m of the opinion that Charlie – if he finds anything, a little bit out of line, or anything else, it will wind up being one or the other of them. Because this Juan Flynn is not going to take anymore from him. He’s took about enough.

At this moment, uh, Brooks Poston is going to cite, some of the songs, that we heard and Charlie writes and programs his people with.

BROOKS POSTON: One song is called “You’re Home Is Where You’re Happy” And the verses are, “You’re home is where you’re happy, It’s not where you’re not free.” Uh, “You’re home is where you can be who you are, cause you are just borned to be. So burn all your bridges, leave the past behind. And, burn all your bridges and,” something about the mind there, I’m not sure about that line there.

There’s one called “The Insane Train.” And he says, “I hear the train a-coming, it’s coming around the bend. I ain’t seen no sadness since I don’t remember when. Since I can’t remember when,” and then they sing on and on about “I can’t remember when, my mother told me to shut up and to get up out of here. I can’t remember when they told me to shut the bathroom door, stupid. I can’t remember when, I can’t remember when.” “I can’t remember” is a part of the program he uses – or what he says is a program. That he says unprograms what you’ve already been computed.

One of the songs he has, has a line in it about, “The only thing you know is what they’ve told you, the only thing you know is what they’ve said.” And, “The only thing you know is what they’ve told you, that all that was true and real was dead.” And several other lines that follow that lead you to think that he’s the one – the only one that can show you the way out of all the, games as he calls it.

He has one song he’s written for motorcycle people, that tell them to ride, and hide away on the dessert. “Like the wind you to ride. With his hair long and flowing” and he goes on and on about hiding on the desert. And he wants to get people to hide out there. And he’s tried to get people to promote his records. But so far he’s been unable to produce them and put them on the market.

As far as I know, from what he’s said, he wants to use these dune buggies he has. And at one time I heard that he had a machine gun. And he wanted to use them, in a Rommel, (Erik?) Rommel type venture. And he said, Hilter was a tuned in guy like himself. And that he saw the truth and he leveled the karma of a lot of people. Karma is what he calls, uh, sin or something like that. I guess he equates it with sin.

PAUL CROCKETT: Now I just completed talking to you about uh, this one, Juan Flynn. Now, he’s about six foot five, or six foot six. He’s a tall, blonde headed man. He came from Panama. And uh, he’s got the most beautiful body on him that you’ve ever seen. I mean he’s physically perfect – if you’ve ever seen a physically perfect man, I think you’d agree, at least, he’s a nice looking, man. And he has light hair, and uh, blue eyes. And he’s uh, Castilian spanish. And so, coming in this Ballarat way – if you could keep him out of there, I think it will be well worth your time and ours too.

Now there’s one other man, his name is Paul Watkins. Now, evidently he was going to come back in through the Warm Springs Road. And so, I would appreciate if you could keep him from going in too. Because he doesn’t know that we have left. And neither does Juan Flynn know that we have left. So if you could keep him out of this. I think that, it would be better for all concerned, because they have already expressed their desires and wishes to be completely separate from, Charles Manson, or whatever his name is. Because they have been able to see that he is nuts, he is crazy as a loon. And that, this is my personal opinion, but I think that from all the tapes we are making here, that there should be some substantiation to what we say. And so, at this time I’ll change the subject to another subject, called uh, armament, and his relation to it, and what he has talked about doing. Now whether he has done it or not, I don’t know. But he’s talked about having dune squads – dune buggy squads in the desert to where he could plant dune buggies every ten or fifteen miles over Death Valley. So that when you guys come after him, then all he has to do is walk over a hill or a ridge. Or then three or four miles to another location where he has food stashed out, water stashed out, gasoline stashed out. He has one wing tank off of an airplane, which is a 300 gallon gas tank. He has several 40, 50, and 60 gallon gas tanks, of many different descriptions, placed all over the desert – that have disappeared. I have seen them at the bottom of Golar Wash, but I don’t know where they’re located now. He has talked about seven vehicles that he has, that he’s brought in. And so he’s got them scattered around the desert. A man that’s used to walking in the desert, can walk approximately 20 or 30 miles, in say, a five or ten hour stretch – if he really gets after it. And this man is on LSD, or on any type of dope, could walk about 10 or 15 or 20 miles in less than three or four hours. Pick up a new dune buggy – or where he had one stashed and hide out – and he’s on to the other end of the desert before you even knew he was out of the area.

And so he’s programmed all of his people. To the extent that they’re just like him, he is – put all kinds of things in their head. I didn’t believe it could be done, but he’s done it. And I see it working. You know, I had him around me, for about three weeks. I had never met the man until just about three weeks or three-and-a-half weeks ago. But from what I see, and what I see coming into the desert. I don’t see how in hell he’s getting it. Other than the fact that these people are doing it for him, because he does nothing himself. He doesn’t do anything, they could pin anything on him. So the only way we can stop this man, is to be able to catch him in a vehicle – that he is driving – that is hot. Or do – or catch him in some situation to where he has become deadly, or something like that, because he is a very clever man. And he borders on genius. And yet, he’s so idiotic, its ridiculous. But you can’t, overlook the fact that he is, doing what he’s doing. And he’s doing it. And you guys should know best that he is doing it. Because you trying to put the make on him.

So, all of these things he told me about being in jail, where the black muslims, and this and that and the other. That he has heard through different cells, speaking of having a case of, uh, grenades. Another man talked about having a bazooka with three rounds – that he was going to make his count. Other people were talking about having Browning automatics, about all types of, uh, cellars with uh, cases of uh, ammunition, piles and stores, and stores of all kinds of thing – molotov cocktails. I’ve heard some of the weirdest stories. I thought it was all make believe to start with. But I’ve of the opinion now that – if you could check jail records and such as that, of when he was in jail, who were the black men that were in jail with him. At the time all of this was taking place. That it, might pay to check in to see who they were, and put tails on them, or whatever is necessary, because he says the black man is getting ready to blow the whole thing open. He talks to them – that they know him. That they tell him these things. And, all this is to me – to this point – is hearsay. But, uh, the other things that have come in to my consciousness since I’ve met the man. Uh, not all of it is hearsay, because things are happening.

Audio Archives: Ruth Ann Moorehouse, Tuesday, December 30, 1969, LAPD interview in Inyo County – Part Two

Tuesday, December 18th, 2012

“Squeaky’s my love”

Dec. 18 – In part two of the December 30, 1969 Ruth Ann Moorehouse interview, Ruth tells Sergeants Phillip Sartuche and Michael Nielsen about what it’s like to take acid, ego death, and people’s hang-ups. The three discuss Catherine “Gypsy” Share and how she wants to lose weight, the desire for more babies in the family, and Ruth’s plans to move to Minnesota when she gets out of jail. Ruth again asks about Sherry Cooper and whether the detectives know if she’s alive or not.

ruth-ann-moorhouse

Ruth Ann Moorehouse

Ruth Ann Moorehouse, 17 years-old at the time of this interview, first met Charles Manson in 1967, after her father, Dean Moorehouse (a former minister) picked Charlie up hitchhiking.

Before leaving for Los Angeles, Charlie told Ruth Ann she could come with if she was married. A few weeks later, she married a bus driver, left him, and joined the family in L.A. She began living with the family at various residences, including Spahn’s Movie Ranch. The ranch’s owner, George Spahn, gave her the nickname Ouisch, pronounced üsh
…Learn more

Sergeant Phillip Sartuche

Sergeant Phillip Sartuche, 30 years-old at the time of this interview, had been with the Los Angeles Police Department for 9 years. Sartuche had been a 1st Lieutenant in the Marine Corps. and also received a Masters Degree in English from L.A. State.

Sartuche became a member of the Los Angeles Police Department in February of 1960. Before working on the LaBianca murders, Phillip had previously been assigned to the Robert Kennedy assassination case.

michael-nielsen-lapd

Sergeant Michael Nielsen

Sergeant Michael Nielsen, 35 years-old at the time of this interview, had been with the Los Angeles Police Department for 12 years. Nielsen had attended Loyola University studying Psychology, as well as taking police courses at LA State and Valley College.

As a Private First Class in the United States Army, Nielsen was assigned to the Heavy Weapons Infantry Company stationed in Berlin, Germany.

Nielsen became a member of the Los Angeles Police Department in October of 1957. Before working on the LaBianca murders, Mike had previously been assigned to the Robert Kennedy assassination case.

Audio Archives: Ruth Ann Moorehouse, Tuesday, December 30, 1969, LAPD interview in Inyo County – Part One

Friday, December 14th, 2012

“What do you suggest, that we sit here and sing ‘Garbage Dump’ or something?”

Dec. 17 – For this installment of the Audio Archives, we will travel back to December 30, 1969 and listen to LaBianca detectives, Sergeants Phillip Sartuche and Michael Nielsen interview Ruth Ann Moorehouse in Inyo County.

In this interview, Sartuche and Nielsen unsuccessfully try to get Ruth to talk about her knowledge of the murders. The three talk about Charlie Manson, Ruth’s nickname and her father Deane while Ruth bums cigarettes and a Milky Way bar off of the officers.

The detectives let Ruth look at a book of family mugshots. Pointing to a photo of Sherry Cooper, Ruth asks, “Where’s she?”

“That’s you,” responds Sartuche.

“No it ain’t,” Moorehouse corrects the officer and explains that Sherry would use her name at times. “But the last detective told me she was dead…”

For the purpose of voice identification, the first detective to speak is Sergeant Phillip Sartuche. The detective who says “another smoker, happy to see that” is Sergeant Michael Nielsen.

ruth-ann-moorhouse

Ruth Ann Moorehouse

Ruth Ann Moorehouse, 17 years-old at the time of this interview, first met Charles Manson in 1967, after her father, Dean Moorehouse (a former minister) picked Charlie up hitchhiking.

Before leaving for Los Angeles, Charlie told Ruth Ann she could come with if she was married. A few weeks later, she married a bus driver, left him, and joined the family in L.A. She began living with the family at various residences, including Spahn’s Movie Ranch. The ranch’s owner, George Spahn, gave her the nickname Ouisch, pronounced üsh
…Learn more

Sergeant Phillip Sartuche

Sergeant Phillip Sartuche, 30 years-old at the time of this interview, had been with the Los Angeles Police Department for 9 years. Sartuche had been a 1st Lieutenant in the Marine Corps. and also received a Masters Degree in English from L.A. State.

Sartuche became a member of the Los Angeles Police Department in February of 1960. Before working on the LaBianca murders, Phillip had previously been assigned to the Robert Kennedy assassination case.

michael-nielsen-lapd

Sergeant Michael Nielsen

Sergeant Michael Nielsen, 35 years-old at the time of this interview, had been with the Los Angeles Police Department for 12 years. Nielsen had attended Loyola University studying Psychology, as well as taking police courses at LA State and Valley College.

As a Private First Class in the United States Army, Nielsen was assigned to the Heavy Weapons Infantry Company stationed in Berlin, Germany.

Nielsen became a member of the Los Angeles Police Department in October of 1957. Before working on the LaBianca murders, Mike had previously been assigned to the Robert Kennedy assassination case.

Audio Archives: Phil Kaufman Interviewed by Deputy District Attorney Aaron Stovitz, January 27, 1970

Friday, November 30th, 2012

“Musically speaking, he is valid”

Dec. 3 – For this installment of the Audio Archives, we will travel back to Tuesday, January 27, 1970, and listen to Deputy District Attorney Aaron Stovitz interview Phil Kaufman, in Stovitz’s office at the Hall of Justice.

In this short interview, Kaufman discusses Charlie’s music, the issues with getting it distributed, the murders, and newspaper accounts of the crimes.

Phil Kaufman

Phil Kaufman, 34 years-old at the time of this interview, was serving time in Terminal Island prison for smuggling marijuana when he met Charles Manson. Kaufman, who worked in the entertainment industry, was impressed by Manson’s singing and songwriting. Before Charlie was paroled in March of 1967, Kaufman encouraged Charlie to see a friend about recording his music.

In March of 1970, Kaufman helped the Manson girls get some of Charlie’s music released on an album titled LIE.

“Everyone else was afraid to put out the album,” said Catherine Share, “so we had to do it ourselves.”

In September of 1973, Kaufman’s good friend, Gram Parsons, fatally overdosed on a combination of Morphine and Alcohol. Before his death, Parsons had told Kaufman that he wished to be cremated at the Joshua Tree National Monument. To honor his friend’s wishes, Kaufman stole Parson’s body from LAX and drove out to Joshua Tree, doused it with 5 gallons of gasoline and lit the coffin.

Kaufman went on to become one of the most famous road managers, working for acts like Emmylou Harris, The Rolling Stones, Frank Zappa and Joe Cocker.

In 2003, the Kaufman/Parsons story was brought to the big screen, in the major motion picture, Grand Theft Parsons, with Johnny Knoxville playing Kaufman.

Deputy District Attorney Aaron Stovitz

Deputy District Attorney Aaron Stovitz, 45 years-old at the time of this interview, had been with the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office for 16 years.

Stovitz enlisted in the Air Force and flew 34 combat missions during World War II and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. He attended Brooklyn College, and then moved to California, where he attended law school at Southwestern University, graduating Magna Cum Laude.

At the age of 28, Stovitz became a Deputy District Attorney with Los Angele County in 1952, trying his first murder case 2 years later. Stovitz eventually headed the Trials Division, and supervised 30 deputy district attorneys.

He was the chief prosecutor in the Tate/LaBianca case until September of 1970, when District Attorney Evelle Younger removed him after some of Stovitz’s off the record comments about Susan Atkins made it to print.

Stovitz was a D.A. with Los Angeles County for 30 years, leaving in 1981. He then worked as a special prosecutor for Santa Clara County on a murder case that was relocated and tried in Los Angeles. Stovitz then worked as a trial attorney in Ventura County for 2 years. Followed up by almost a decade of defense work, and then consulting.

Aaron died of Leukemia on January 25, 2010. The 85 year-old attorney was survived by this wife, daughter, two sons, and seven grandchildren.