Jul 2 – Part two of Lt. Earl Deemer’s August 30, 1969 interview of William “Billy” Doyle in Toronto, Canada.
SATURDAY, AUGUST 30, 1969, TORONTO, CANADA
LT. EARL DEEMER: Were you ever at a party at uh, Cielo, when a, beef occurred; when Polanski was present? (unintelligible)
WILLIAM DOYLE: Unfortunately I was.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Give me the rundown on that.
WILLIAM DOYLE: Yes, I was invited to a party at Roman’s – and Cass and I were both invited. I was invited by Wojciech. Cass had been invited by Roman. We were both – we were invited as a couple, by both of them.
Uh, Tom and John were up in – in Los Angeles at the time.
I invited neither of them.
Perhaps we should use that machine. If you could just give me an idea of the kind of questions you’re going to ask me?
LT. EARL DEEMER: I could –
WILLIAM DOYLE: I’d like you to know, that uh, Del Negro(?) invited John Deturo to that party, not me. And I made a point —
LT. EARL DEEMER: Who invited him?
WILLIAM DOYLE: Del Negro.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Uh.
WILLIAM DOYLE: And I made a specific point of criticizing Del, suggesting to Del that John won’t be there.
Uh, his brother-in-law will uh, confirm that for you. His brother-in-law had to go to the parking lot and straighten it out. John got a little juiced. And everybody at the party knew each other, of course. Uh Del invited John because I – he assumed that John and I were friends and that I would want John to be there. I didn’t know we didn’t invite John.
Uh, you know what those parties are like. I don’t serve any. I don’t need any investigation by describing a party – you already know what can – how (unintelligible) about how the parties are.
I like John. And uh, John didn’t know anyone long, and those people are very cliquish. And uh, their generosity uh, to strangers is uh, is not a, is not a watermark of these people, generally. And, for rightly so, their public is a stranger uh, and uh, they’re usually mobbed. And so uh, John maybe had a few drink, which he doesn’t do, as a rule. And he was at this party for two hours and I don’t believe anybody said anything except for me said anything to him. And he felt obviously useless there and he had no way to leave. And I could see you begin to look tough. I went into another room, talking with some people. When I came, back, somebody ran in and grabbed me and said Deturo is up in the parking lot, this one’s in trouble. Ben Carruthers and I went out to the parking lot. And John was arguing with the parking lot attendants. He uh – I believe that, they had asked him, you know, some (unintelligible). They felt his behavior was kind of strange; that they were trying to really look after him, as attendants usually do to people who are at Hollywood parties. If a star get [tape ends]
WILLIAM DOYLE: ..those people, that’s my first connection to that house. It was a very expensive home, there was a lot of very lovely landscaping up there. I didn’t notice the house in the back; the first few times I was there.
I’d loved – I’d loved to help you.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Mm Hmm.
WILLIAM DOYLE: I loved Wojciech.
I don’t think Wojciech would willing have hurt me or anyone else.
And I don’t think there’s a possibility in the world that Wojciech would’ve stood by and let anybody hurt Sharon.
He may – he might’ve let Jay handle his own case. But in the final analysis he wouldn’t let anybody do him serious harm.
LT. EARL DEEMER: What about his relationship with Gibby?
WILLIAM DOYLE: I think his relationship with Gibby – I think Mr. Folger should and will soon investigate everything and everyone. Gibby Folger was not a drug addict. Gibby Folger, I repeat, was not a drug addict. And, and – thought it was a big deal, and thought she was being incredibly mischievous to take a poke off of somebody else’s joint.
Gibby was a girl of breadth. She was a lady of equality. I was very, very, very fond of Gibby. She was uh, lovely girl.
As was Sharon – was Sharon, I think. They were really nice people – you don’t understand they were really, really fine people. It’s all a lot of nonsense and crap in the newspapers, about those girls. Neither of those girls were whores, to my knowledge. For sure Gibby wasn’t. I didn’t know Sharon all that well, but I knew Gibby. I was exposed to her a lot. She was a nice girl. She loved Wojciech and that was oblivious. She wanted him to marry her. I believe he had a wife or something in Poland. He used to talk about it when he used to drink a lot of Vodka.
Wojciech had uh, Wojciech was violently anti-Nazi. I made the mistake one time of saying in my opinion, that Asianatic Communism was more subhuman than uh, as in my opinion was uh, the worst political system in the world. And Wojciech became hysterical – apparently that had been the night that I had taken all those drugs apparently. He had gave me all those drugs and thats why he was mad a me because he was, saying that the Nazis were the worst. Apparently he had some bitter experiences with them at the hands.
And he wouldn’t marry Gibby on the account she was wealthy. I believe uh –
LT. EARL DEEMER: But he would let her keep him.
WILLIAM DOYLE: I don’t believe she was keeping him, I believe Roman was. And it may be expedited for Roman to deny it now. Uh, Wojciech has told me so.
Wojciech indicated to me that his friend Roman, uh, was helping him.
I never – never saw Wojciech doing any work. I never knew – but Wojciech told me he was having problems with his working paper.
So I assume the kind of help was material aid. You can’t live in Hollywood, in a $200,000 home, and drive a car, and have clothes, and uh, and buy drugs, and have parties, and have catering services and carry on in general, in an, in an, in an in-depth social scene, without money. It can’t be done. I couldn’t afford it.
LT. EARL DEEMER: How did you support yourself while you were there.
WILLIAM DOYLE: I had some money when I arrived there, and it was very little. And I was very prudent with it. And I spent a total of maybe, five, six hundred dollars on drugs, and that was my major expenditure.
All the time I was there – I had – I had $10,000. And in the end, the last few months I didn’t even have enough money to pay for taking the garbage away from Cass’ house. Cass was having some problems with the IRS. And I paid – footed the bills there. And if you ask Ben or Judy Carruthers, they’ll tell you so.
LT. EARL DEEMER: How about Pic, how did he support himself?
WILLIAM DOYLE: I don’t have the faintest idea. I believe when Pic came back from Europe he had some money.
Pic has always been nefarious to me – in his financial dealings.
When I first met Pic, he was strung out. I cleaned him up. I guess you know that.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Mm Hmm.
WILLIAM DOYLE: The next time I met Pic, he was strung out. I cleaned him up.
I made him cut all his hair off. One time I brought him to Canada; put him on a train. And then he went to Europe. His hair was short and he was fine. He went away and got his leg operated on, it was a big success; he came back.
Hung out with his musician fellows, got strung out again. Once again I threw him out of the house.
He was hanging around with Cass. I’m sure you know all about that too.
I love Cass. She was a nice girl, we had a lot in common. She had the same values as I did. Unfortunately, somebody convinced her that I killed those people. That I had snuck back into the country and done it. And then along with the super paranoia – concerning her girl – her, her daughter Owen, (unintelligible) because every mother’s first thought goes to her child.
She called me and told me that she had, told the police a whole bunch of things concern – about me; she apologized.
She told me that, she didn’t believe that I had did it. And that, at the time, that Mr. John Phillips had told her that, the police were coming there to arrest her; for withholding – withholding information and that she’d be an accessory to murder, or something.
You ask her. Call her when you get back, she’ll tell you that that’s what she told me.
I believe – was it you that Cass spoke with?
LT. EARL DEEMER: No, I didn’t talk to her.
WILLIAM DOYLE: But you’re familiar with the detectives that when out to talk to her.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Yeah, I’ve uh, frankly never talked to Cass at all.
WILLIAM DOYLE: The uh, everybody in California seems to a degree in spy-manship. Everybody that uh – a lot of those people – a lot, a lot – that was one (unintelligible). Within super – within the confines of the social scene, that, that, that I was socializing in (unintelligible) out of the country.
Wojciech uh – Wojciech led a truly social life. He had no – the fact that Wojciech that’s even a drug dealer is as alien as the thought of me homesteading on the moon; he – first of all he had great difficulty speaking English. He so far out of touch, with that kind of thing. That he couldn’t have sold any drugs and he wouldn’t – I don’t believe he really knew where to go to buy any. In fact it’s a mystery to me who was his connection. And I can tell you right now, it wasn’t me.
Because we wouldn’t have any smoke at Cass’ house; because Owen was there. Cass has been just divorced, and shh – no trouble.
And you could, they – anybody at anything could walk over there to 7708 Woodrow Wilson Drive and tear it top to bottom. There’s never any drugs there. I know this uh – I guess you’ve heard. I’ve uh – Cass used to – when Pic was around, there were drugs around. I put a stop to that. That’s the truth. I really did.
LT. EARL DEEMER: When did you say was the last time you saw Pic?
WILLIAM DOYLE: Last time I saw Pic was seven months ago.
Pic and Wojciech were close.
Uh, Pic and I were close. But finally I couldn’t like Pic anymore.
Wojciech tried to help. Wojciech was not a bad fellow. Everybody that represents Wojciech as being a bad fellow, has something to gain, or something to hide, is doing that.
Wojciech was really motivated by the highest things. Wojciech wasn’t strung out, when I saw him last, or anytime through the time that I saw him; he really wasn’t.
Pic was, in bad shape. Wojciech took him in, gave him a home, and cleaned him up. It’s most difficult to put up with people when they’re kicking.
It’s hard for a fellow to put up with his girl.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Yeah, did you and Pic have any uh, beef with John Phillips over Michelle?
WILLIAM DOYLE: Michelle was a cobra. I’ve never had anything to do with Michelle. I’ve never kissed Michelle. I’ve never held her hand, nor would I.
Michelle Phillips is a (unintelligible) lady. I have no interest in the Phillips.
I know John Phillips to be a bragger. I know John Phillips to be the father figure to the Mamas and the Papas. And I know when Cass had her troubles last (unintelligible) I heard John Phillips tell some people that Cass was strung up on drugs which is patently false.
Dave Victorson, at Caesars Palace wouldn’t have an entertainer in there that was strung out on drugs. Do you understand?
I mean, he really wouldn’t.
LT. EARL DEEMER: Mm Hmm.
WILLIAM DOYLE: Cass’ struggles leaving – John Phillips came in and uh, then said, “See. I told you couldn’t make it on your own, etc., etc.”
I told him to uh, to shut up. Michelle said something, I told her to shut up. He jumped up and gave me a push.
(unintelligible) was in the room at the time – who was Cass’ musical arranger – assisted John out the door. That’s exactly what happen that time.
I’ve been to, John Phillips’ house on more than ten occasions, always with Cass. I’ve never had any dealings with John Phillips concerning his wife. I, I couldn’t be less interested. I know that John Phillips used to settle all his arguments with Cass by hitting her. When I came around, that ended.
I told John Phillips if he had anybody to hit, he could hit me.
I’m not bitter about John Phillips. I do however know about – what I’ve been told, from people in California, that John Phillips has, has laid the blame squarely at my feet. And I would (unintelligible) enter in reality. For what I’ve read in the paper. I believe, that if you go to John Phillips, with this machine and ask him to repeat all the testimony that he’s given to you – and to, and to uh, and to Polanski – that you’ll end up arresting him for mischief.
Or have the grounds to at least.
‘Cause John, John would believe – have you been to John’s house?
LT. EARL DEEMER: No.
WILLIAM DOYLE: He lives in a very expensive house; which he earned.
I believe that basically he’s a fine guy.
LT. EARL DEEMER: What’s he doing? Arranging or what?
WILLIAM DOYLE: I don’t know what he’s doing. I know that his overhead is enormous and the residuals from the Mamas and the Papas are off very badly. And I know he’s been, heading – I know his financial situation is not quite what he’d like it to be.
I believe he did all that with (unintelligible) with a uh, Monterey Pop Festival thing; that’s hearsay.
All I know that he’s desperate to make any kind of fame. Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones was found dead. John and Michelle wanted to have a big wake at their house. Anybody that knew Brian, was aghast. And they were called up by a number of people and told not to do that, that it won’t look well.
No one (unintelligible) I mean no one of the people uh,
John would use anything, and has, and will use anything to, to aggrandize himself, or to secure for himself a position in the Hollywood community, because he is attempting – and it’s a difficult thing to make the transition from a rock and roller, to a regular of the – to a regular of the Hollywood establishment. That’s a difficult task for a man to do, it’s highly competitive. And I believe he’s, uh – I believe his uh, his effort was uh, was uh, not in the interest of, of, of assisting Police with the crime. But more of in the interest of endearing himself to the, to the bereaved.
LT. EARL DEEMER: If we could stop for uh, cup of coffee, I want to call uh, McGann, and uh, see if there’s anything else that uh, wants to be uh –
I wonder what he meant by Michell Phillips being a cobra?
what do you take it to mean when you hear someone call someone a snake?
Where is the rest??