Thursday, October 13, 2016



In the matter of the Life Term Parole Consideration Hearing of:
CDC Number: B-28302

OCTOBER 13, 2016
9:45 A.M.

PETE LABAHN, Presiding Commissioner
STEVEN MAHONEY, Deputy Commissioner

JASON CAMPBELL, Attorney for Inmate
DONNA LEBOWITZ, Deputy District Attorney
KAY MARTLEY, Victim's Next-of-Kin
DEBRA TATE, Victim's Support



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And the time is 9:45. Today is October 13th, 2016. This is the Seventeenth Subsequent Parole Consideration Hearing for Robert Beausoleil, CDC Number B-28302. We are located at the Correctional Medical Facility in Vacaville. Mr. Beausoleil was received on June 23rd, 1970 from Los Angeles County. The controlling offense for which he has been committed is Murder in the First Degree. Case Number A057452, one count of Penal Code Section 187. Mr. Beausoleil has a minimum eligible parole date of August 4th, 1976. This hearing is being recorded. For voice identification, each of us will state our first and last name, spelling our last name. Mr. Beausoleil, when it's your turn, after spelling your last name please provide us with your CDC Number, as well. I'll begin, we'll move to my right around the Hearing Room, and after those present in the Hearing Room have introduced themselves we will ask that Ms. Lebowitz introduce herself. And after that, we'll ask that Ms. Martley and Ms. Tate introduce themselves. I'm Pete LaBahn, L-A-B-A-H-N, Commissioner, and I'll be chairing, today.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: My name is Randolf Grounds, G-R-O-U-N-D-S, Commissioner.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Steven Mahoney, M A- H-O-N-E-Y, Deputy Commissioner.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Good morning, Commissioners. Good morning, Ms. Lebowitz. My name is Jason Campbell, attorney for Robert Beausoleil, C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My name is Robert Beausoleil, B-E-A-U-S-O-L-E-I-L, B-28302.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Donna Lebowitz, L-E-B-O-W-I-T-Z, Deputy District Attorney for the county of Los Angeles.


MS. MARTLEY: Kay Martley, M-A-R-T-L-E-Y.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And Ms. Martley, you are Mr. Hinman's cousin; correct?

MS. MARTLEY: I am cousin of Gary Hinman, sorry.


MS. TATE: And I am Debra Tate, T-A-T-E, and I am next-of-kin support.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Tate is functioning in this hearing as a supporter for Ms. Martley. We also have with us today two correctional peace officers, they are here for security purposes and will not be participating in today's hearing. Mr. Beausoleil, before we go forward, we are going to discuss some ADA issues. Due to recent changes in the law, you are now both an elderly offender and a youthful offender, and so we're going to discuss those issues, as well. Mr. Beausoleil, you're current 68 years old?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And I note in the DEC system that you have a lower bunk chrono.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you have some lifting restrictions, which is not unusual for people of your age. Why do you have a lower bunk chrono, and why do you have lifting restrictions?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I have severe degenerative arthritis.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you're wearing glasses, today, Mr. Beausoleil. Do you use those for reading, or distance or both?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My hearing is good.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. If, at any time during today's hearing, you don't hear what's being said, this Hearing Room is quiet this morning, but it can be problematic because it's hard, and also occasionally there's quite a bit of noise from outside. If, at any time, you don't understand what's being said, please bring that to our attention. The other hearing participants have already been given that same request by the Panel. We'll be happy to repeat ourselves, or speak up or do whatever we need to do to ensure that you can hear what's being said in order that you can participate fully in today's hearing. I noted in a document submitted by your attorney, I believe for the 2015 hearing which was postponed, that you do suffer from severe degenerative arthritis, that you have herniated discs in your neck and back. Accurate?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: How does that impact your ability to get around?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I do a lot of yoga, so I'm able to kind of keep the worst of the symptoms at bay doing that. So I get around pretty well. There's been a few times when I've had to use a cane, but by and large, I'm okay.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. I just have to be careful, that's all.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And the notation also is that you have an occlusion in your right eye.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. That's true.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's a -- an occlusion is caused by a blood vessel that burst on the macula, and causes a deformation. I have healed mostly from that, but it -- although there's -- I have a little blind spot now from it.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No one seems to know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: It wasn't an injury or something of that nature?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. No. It's like a, you know, high blood pressure could have -- could have caused it. It's just one of those things that happens.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Is that something that's likely to worsen and jeopardize your vision further, or is it stable?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's possible. It's possible, but they -- I have glaucoma, as well. That's a new, it's a more recent development. And they're treating me for -- they gave me some injections in my eye, which seems to have helped on the occlusion, and I'm using eye drops to reduce the likelihood that I'll lose my vision before I die.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The documents submitted by your counsel also mentions that you have high blood pressure, and you mention that, as well. But you are receiving medication for that?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And is it controlled by the medication?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. I'm doing well.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Have you ever been part of the Mental Health Services Delivery System at CDCR, such as CCCMS or EOP?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Well, again, you've been determined to qualify as an elderly offender. We'll talk about the youthful offender issue in a few minutes. But based upon your age, and your status as an elderly offender, having been in prison for more than 25 years and being more than 60 years old we have particular interest in how your age, an any medical conditions, or mobility impairments which might stem from it, could impact our decision today, and they could. The Panel recognizes that as we age, frequently we develop medical or physical problems that impact our ability to harm others, even if we wanted to. And so that's why I'm spending a little more time than I normally might. This is normal for an inmate of your age. Do you engage in any type of physical fitness other than yoga?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Not really. No. Yoga is pretty all-encompassing if you do it correctly, and I teach yoga, as well. So it's -- and I'm teaching to inmates who have infirmities, disabilities or their beginners.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. What about -- what about, and I'm going to interrupt you if I feel that I've got enough.




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What about, I know -- I know, having reviewed previous transcripts, that you're a verbal guy. I don't think we're going to have any difficulty getting you to respond to questions, today, at length. And for that reason, if the Panel feels that we have sufficient information in a particular area, I won't hesitate to move you on.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So some inmates do burpees, some inmates do push-ups, some inmates do pull-ups, some inmates run around the yard. Do you have any other physical fitness regimen that you participate in?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Do you have any other physical problems that would make it difficult for you to sit for an extended period of time or move around?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. Not that we haven't already discussed.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Very well. We have had the opportunity to review your Central File and your prior transcripts, as well. We'll give you an opportunity today to correct or clarify the record as we proceed with this hearing. Nothing that happens in today's hearing will change the findings of the court. We're not here to retry your case.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We accept as true the findings of the court. We're here only to determine your suitability for parole. Mr. Campbell, did you discuss with your client his rights regarding this hearing, and also the format that you anticipated we'd be following in today's hearing?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And Mr. Beausoleil, you signed the Inmate Rights Form on April 5th of 2016. Did you also have an opportunity to prepare for today's hearing with your attorney, Mr. Campbell?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And Mr. Beausoleil, before we go forward, do you have any questions?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We do have quite a few documents that were submitted in support of Mr. Beausoleil's hearing, today. There are multiple letters of support, there are some documents which were submitted also by Mr. Campbell prior to the 2015 hearing, which was -- which was postponed. And we do have those documents, as well. And certainly, we have many documents reflecting an opposition to the finding of suitability, as well. Some new, some dated, but we have had the opportunity to review them all. Mr. Beausoleil has been in prison for a long, long time. And for the record, I just heard a tone, which leads me to be concerned about whether all hearing participants are still linked. Ms. Martley, are you with us, still?

MS. MARTLEY: Yes. I am.


MS. TATE: And I am, as well.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. So Mr. Beausoleil, not surprisingly, your file is large, and you've had a recent relocation from Oregon where you, I believe, you were for over two decades. And so there are a lot of documents to sort through. It may well be, although I anticipate two hearings during -- two breaks during today's hearing, that we'll take more.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And as I promised earlier, there will be periods of silence in today's hearing while the Panel is simply going through materials and looking for them through the various systems on the computer, as well as in the paper documents that we have before us. So we'd ask those participating remotely, as long as you think you're still linked, don't worry if there are periods of silence. Mr. Campbell, do we have any additional documents to submit at this time?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And I indicated that Mr. Beausoleil is current 68. In fact, he'll be 69 in just a matter of days.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Very well. Mr. Beausoleil, let's swear you in. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you give at today's hearing will be the truth and nothing but the truth?


DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Commissioner LaBahn, before you proceed with the hearing, I would like to state an objection for the record.





PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I was about to invite objections. I suspect that Mr. Campbell may have some, as well.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Okay. Thank you. I'll be patient. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You don't have to be too patient because now is a good time. Go ahead.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Okay. I would like to state an objection to this hearing in light of the fact that I've been informed that there has been a 115 violation, serious rules violation, filed against Mr. Beausoleil for conduct that occurred, I guess, in the recent past. I do not have a copy of that 115, so I do not know exactly what the conduct is but it's my position that it would be impossible to have a hearing that considers Mr. Beausoleil's future and current dangerousness without consideration of whatever activity was included in that 115. Because A, it's not been adjudicated, and B, I don't have a copy of it, I am unable to address that and I would assert that the Commissioners would be unable to analyze that, as well. And based up that, I would have an objection to this hearing going forward.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Very well. Any other objections? Ms. Lebowitz, anything further?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Lebowitz, are you with us? Okay. Apparently, we have lost our link to Ms. Lebowitz. We're going to go off the record briefly. The time is 9:58.

(Off the record)


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Lebowitz, are you with us?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And Mr. Martley and Ms. Tate, as well?

MS. MARTLEY: Yes. I'm here.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Lebowitz, did you have any additional objections?



ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yes. Thank you, Commissioner. First should I respond to Ms. Lebowitz's objection, or should I just go forward with my own?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: If you'd like to respond, you can, but I'm interested in any objections you might have.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I'll just say briefly, for the record, that it is true that there is a pending disciplinary action against Mr. Beausoleil. We are prepared to go forward with the hearing. Mr. Beausoleil is prepared, with the understand that that, you know, that there is a pending disciplinary. Obviously, it's --

MS. TATE: Hello?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yeah. Obviously, it's in the discretion of the Board how you wish to proceed, but I just wanted to inform you that we are prepared to go forward substantively with the hearing. The objections that I have, you, Commissioner, had said earlier that all questions will be from the District Attorney's representative will be going, passing through the Board. In previous hearings, I know Mr. Beausoleil, they've given questions direction to him. And I ask that, as you said before, they be --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That will not happen today.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Thank you. Also, as far as the facts concerning the commitment offense, I have advised Mr. Beausoleil not to go into the facts concerning the commitment offense because they've been discussed previously, at other hearings. He did discuss them with the psychological -- in the Psychological Evaluation. So I believe that we can defer to the record in the Psych Evaluation, as well as prior hearings and also the statement of facts, obviously, in the Appellate record, which the Board tends to rely on. He will -- I have told him that he should answer questions regarding insight or other factors that might not be clear from, you know, that may have changed since the last, or that the Board needs clarification on. I have -- I have stated in a letter that I wrote to the Board, which is in the record here as well as in the last document that I submitted, that we would be objecting to the -- respectfully objecting to the participation of Ms. Martley and Ms. Tate. Mr. Beausoleil has asked to withdraw the rejection, excuse me, withdraw the objection with respect to Ms. Martley. I'm not -- not on a legal basis, but just on the basis of that we believe she has, you know, at least a moral right to appear at this hearing. I've discussed that with Ms. Lebowitz, also. I would continue to object to Ms. Tate's presence, particularly in this scenario where she is appearing telephonically in a different location. I question the, you know, the significance of, you know, a support person who is not present there with the victim's next-of-kin. I think also the recent, you know, the gathering of signatures for the petitions, as well as the solicitation of emails, you know, obviously, I understand Ms. Tate has many feelings about this hearing. And I certainly don't begrudge her those feelings, I just think that it's distracting to the issue here, which is Mr. Beausoleil's current dangerousness and his suitability for parole. So I'll raise that objection. Obviously, it's in the discretion of the Board. I would object if the Board intends to use any confidential evidence, I believe it's inherently unreliable and I would not have a meaningful opportunity to address it if the Board is intending to use that. I would also object to the -- to Marsy's Law on the basis that it, you know, violates the ex post facto provision in the Constitution. Those are my objections, preliminarily.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Very well. Well, I predicted that we'd take some unscheduled breaks, and we're about to take one. I could respond to several of these objections right now, but I think the Panel will want to confer regarding others. And I'll endeavor to rule on these at the front end of today's hearing, which I think probably everyone would prefer. So we are going to be going off the record briefly, and taking what I hope will be a short break. The time is now 10:06.

(Off the record)

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: It is 10:35. So we have a number of objections to rule on at this point. With respect to Ms. Lebowitz's objection regarding the pending rules violation report, I'm going to deny the objection. The Panel feels that we have sufficient information at this point to proceed with this hearing. We certainly, having read the rules violation report again, anticipate communicating with Mr. Beausoleil on that and related issues. We feel fully capable of proceeding with this hearing with the information that we have available to us. With respect to the objection from Mr. Campbell regarding the District Attorney's right to directly question his client, I think that point is moot. That does not occur, and I've worked with Ms. Lebowitz on a number of occasions. I just can't conceive of that being a problem. With respect to participation of Ms. Tate as a supporter, well, first of all, I've conducted previous hearings in which Ms. Tate was a participant, and her conduct has always been full appropriate and consistent with the role of a supporter. I don't anticipate that today's would be any difference. I am definitely going to deny the objection. Ms. Tate is in a different geographical location from Ms. Martley, but Ms. Martley has requested that Ms. Tate function as her supporter and there's some logic to that given the shared experience that the two have. I'm going to provide sufficient latitude in today's hearing for Ms. Tate to function in her role. With respect to the use of confidential information, I'll deny that objection, as well, with the following statement. The Panel, we use all information available to us in reaching a decision concerning Mr. Beausoleil's suitability for parole, today. And Mr. Beausoleil does have confidential information in his Central File, that should not be a surprise to anyone. Specifically, Mr. Beausoleil has 622 pages in his Confidential File. I know that because I have turned every one of them. I certainly represent that I've read every word, but a part of preparing for a Suitability Hearing is reviewing the material and the Panel has done that. It was not clear to me, based upon my review of that material, that we would be using it in today's decision. Typically, we do not. But if we do, we will follow current Board policy with respect to providing the information that we can provide pursuant to police. And we will do so in a manner which is pursuant to policy. And certainly, there will be no mystery about that. With respect to the objection concerning Proposition 9, I will deny that, as well. Proposition 9 is current state law and therefore it is binding on this Panel, today. And that said, Ms. Lebowitz, did you receive the documents from Mr. Beausoleil's Central File pertaining to the pending 115, which we sent you via email?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And you've had an opportunity to review that brief document; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. So a few minutes ago, Mr. Beausoleil, I mentioned that you were both an elderly offender, and you were also a youthful offender. The latter is of significance to the Panel, as well, and will be of significance in today's hearing. As a youthful offender, the law recognizes what medical science has recognized for some time, and that is that individuals who are young, in your case I believe you were 21 --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- at the time of this murder, at times their brains are not fully developed. And that lack of development can be reflected in their decision-making process, at times. And so this Panel will have a particular interest in exploring that, as well. This murder occurred many years ago, but the law requires that we give great weight to factors related to your youth, the hallmark features of youth, which may have been present and at work at the time of this murder. So issues such as your overall maturity, your -- the type of childhood that you had, the type of parenting that you had, the type of structure that you had in your youth, your ability to make decisions with an appropriate awareness of the likely consequences of your actions. This extent to which you may have been susceptible to negative peers, or criminally minded peers. The extent to which you may have been desirous of earning the respect of criminally minded peers or negative peers. The extent to which you may have been able to extricate yourself from a negative situation, even if you recognized that you were in one. And I recognize at 21, you were no kid, you were an adult, but you were a very young adult and the Panel does -- or the law does place you in that category. The clinician, with whom you met recently, also paid particular heed to your age at the time of the commitment offense. Now, the change in the law can benefit you, and you're an elderly offender and a youthful offender. But the change in the law does not provide you with a get out of prison card.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That's not what it's about. This Panel still has to determine whether you would present a current, unreasonable risk of danger if you were released from prison. So with that, we're going to spend a little time talking about the past. Our task is determining whether you're suitable for parole, today. Mr. Beausoleil, I swore you in; didn't I?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We've had so many peripheral things go on here, I just needed to make sure.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: You were in the -- if you were to guess --


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: You were in the middle of it, I wasn't sure you actually finished it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We're thinking alike. Commissioner, thank you. I believe I did swear you in.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. So our task today, obviously, is determining whether you're suitable for parole. We're going to focus, to a significant extent, on who you are today, and who we think you're likely to be going forward. We are going to spend some time talking about the past, as well. We haven't met you before, and we do want to explore those youthful -- the potential for hallmark features of youth playing a role in the commitment offense. It also helps us to understand the process of change, which we hope has been taking place over these many years. And if we know who you were, it helps us to do just that. So we're going to start early on, and then we'll move forward in your life as we proceed with today's hearing. You met with the psychologist, a Dr. Levin, back on February 22nd of 2016.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And Dr. Levin notes that you were born in Santa Barbara, you had four siblings, your parents were together. You began displaying some pretty rebellious behavior at quite a young age. You were running away, became involved in some minor criminality, which resulted in you being regarded by your parents as out of their control.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you experienced some sort of juvenile detention. What was going on?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I didn't have any really severe problems at home. It wasn't an abusive situation. I was not close with my father, mainly because he just wasn't there. He would work two jobs to support five children, and his family, and mortgage, and so on and so I didn't see him that much. I didn't really connect with him very closely. My brothers did, they were much -- a few years younger than I was. And I started seeking outside of my home for identity, who I was, and I think it was partly just sort of adventurous spirit. And you know, when I ran away from home, I ran away from home twice and I didn't have a good reason either time. It wasn't that I was angry, or feeling neglected or anything like that. It was just wanting to see the world, I think.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What part of the world did you want to see back then when you were 14, or , or 13 or however old it was? 12, even.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. It was 12. The first time was 12-1/2, hopped a freight with a friend of mine. And I didn't have any specific objective, although I loved being with my grandmother who lived down south. So it was always the direction I went in those instances, it was always south, towards Los Angeles where she lived. I didn't really have a specific place, necessarily. I just wanted to be out of Santa Barbara, which, at that time, they used to call the town for the newly wed and nearly dead. So I just wanted to be anywhere other than there.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So when you left town, when you'd run away, did you run away alone?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I ran away both times with a friend about my age.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You told the clinician that you were a good student until the seventh grade, at which point you entered public schools. You were attending private school prior to that?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. And I had attended private school, and I had done well in private -- in public school, excuse me. I was in a Catholic school in elementary school.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What about your siblings? How did you -- how did you place in the -- in the order?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So when you were experiencing this rebelliousness, and desire to get out and see the world, what were your siblings doing?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: They were younger, and my sister was a year younger than I was, and she was having her own problems with -- she got pregnant pretty young. Not that young, not as -- not 12, but it was not that -- not that long after. So she brought her own issues to the family. I got along good with my brothers and sisters, still do. I mean, I'm still --



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Any of them go to jail or prison?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And I note you have some support letters from, I believe, brothers and a sister.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My brother and sister-in-law, I have always -- have always written, and have offered their home if I need it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That's in Costa Mesa; correct?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. They're in Oregon.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. You have a relative, as I recall, in Orange County somewhere.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: In Orange County I have my step-son, who I'm very close with.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm closest with my wife's children, and I also had three biological children who I'm also in communication.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We're going to talk about that in a minute. I noted that. All right. On one of your ventures, you were hitchhiking and you were -- you were sexually assaulted.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And was that while you were running away, or were you just hitchhiking?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was on my way home.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was on my way home from being -- from living with my grandmother in Los Angeles County, I was in El Monte.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You told the clinician you quit school at age 16. Did you ever attend school in LA, then?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I had -- I came -- I returned to school late because I knew that my grandmother had cancer, and I didn't want to leave her alone so I stayed with her longer than I should have, probably.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Were you parents okay with you hitchhiking around Southern California?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know that they were okay with it. They had accepted it, that that's how I got around, you know. In those days, it was a lot different than it is, now. I had a -- I had, at home, I mean, I had gone to and from school hitchhiking, so --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Well, you responded to the clinician's question regarding that sexual assault with the following, quote, it was disgusting, obviously, and I hated it, but it didn't affect me in a way that I couldn't function, end quote. Do you believe that experience, which had to be very unpleasant and impactful, do you believe it had any impact on you and the person you became later in life?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't think so. Well, except to the extent that it made much more cautious after that. You know, I was very cautious about who I got into a car with, but actually it wasn't in hitchhiking that that had happened. I had been stranded in East LA at night, and someone who offered to give me shelter overnight so I could leave the -- because I couldn't. There was no traffic to hitchhike out of that area, and it was a pretty frightening area, actually, at that time. And so I would -- it did make me much more cautious about who I trusted.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician notes that your earlier adulthood, what would seem your late childhood, was characterized by impulsivity, and irresponsibility and antisocial behavior. You had a number of contacts with law enforcement as a young man. None seem to have -- well, there were a lot of dismissals.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But you were contacted, you were detained for a number of different --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I sort of invited that.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: By I was a rock-'n'-roll musician, had long hair, dressed in really kind of wild, colorful clothes and so I kind of made a target out of myself as someone, you know, as being part of the counterculture sort of thing in San Francisco. Primarily, I think, so -- and also in Los Angeles. I got in trouble for walking my dog without a leash, so --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You drew attention to yourself.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I did. I did draw attention to myself. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician notes that you -- that you had a number of jobs, but you were primarily a musician and you still are to this day; correct?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That's true. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And were you, in young adulthood, were you able to earn a living as a musician?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I actually was. Yes. I started playing professional when I was -- I had just turned 17.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And at what age did you begin playing?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician notes that you had a number of relationships, and as you mentioned a few minutes ago, you have three biological children. And you have relationships with them, today?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What about their mothers?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I don't have relationships with their mothers.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So is it you have three daughters; is that it?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I have a son and two daughters.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My son is in Texas, he's a pretty famous Cajun chef.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And what about your two daughters?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: One of my daughters actually got in with my son, and works for him as a -- as a waitress in Dallas, as well. My other daughter lives in Los Angeles.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And have any of them had problems with the law which you're aware?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you have no relationship with those young people's mothers; correct?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Not any longer. No. It's been a long time. And they're, you know, they're married, and they have different lives.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You had an early marriage in prison, I believe.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And that was relatively short term.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. And then you had a long term marriage.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you've recently lost your wife.



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Thank you very much. It was -- we were married 31 years. She was an amazing woman.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I was unable to locate a juvenile criminal history, but suspect you had one. It was sealed, or --



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know. I've never really had a criminal history. Other than running away, I was made a ward of the court at my parent's request because they, you know, didn't feel like they could manage their other four children, and having me running away from home so --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So you became a ward of the court not because you were stealing things from stores, or beating up other kids.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I didn't get involved --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: It was because you were running away?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, one of the arrests that I had wasn't -- I was never charged with anything, it was a prank that --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You're thinking about the bomb threats?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. No. Actually, that was -- I never went to -- I was reprimanded for that. That was a -- that was another prank at school. No. I'm talking about -- I'm trying to --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. That's right.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: We stole some Christmas tree ornaments.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. Well, here's my point --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Christmas ornaments.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Let me -- let me cut it short here, this is a long time ago. Other than the vandalism, the contacts that you had with juvenile justice authority seemed to have stemmed from your running away and being out of parental control.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That was it. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. You were not involved with gang activity as a young person in --




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. The clinician discussed your substance abuse history with you, which has, at various times, been pretty significant it would seem. You began smoking marijuana at what age?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think I was 16.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: In my -- 16, 17, around that area.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician suggests that perhaps age 14, but a young teenager, in any event.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I -- no. I'll take that back. I did try it one time, but it wasn't even -- I didn't feel anything. It was just I tried it one time, but I didn't actually experience anything and smoke it regularly until I was about 16.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. You told the clinician that you occasionally used psychedelic drugs including mescaline, LSD and mushrooms from age 16 up until the time of your arrest for this murder.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Infrequently, it was just experimentation. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And alcohol really wasn't an issue for you.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. Not at all. No.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You continued, on occasion, to use marijuana even after you were in prison with the last use being what, in 1999?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Which you told the clinician occurred because you were bored.




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You seem to have been pretty busy up there, so I --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I don't know. Did I say that I was bored?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician doesn't directly quote you, but provides a paraphrase here stating that you did it out of boredom.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I don't think that that's really true because I don't -- that was never really the motive for me smoking pot. And so I could tell you what it is, but I'll wait until you ask the question.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had a -- I was -- and I must tell you, I really didn't understand how he was, at the time he was interviewing me, that he was seeing my use of marijuana in a completely different context than I realized he was seeing it. I have never been addicted to the substance as far as physiological. I did have maybe an addiction to the belief that it made me more creative as an artist, that it inspired better music or better art. In 1999, I realized that that was completely wrong, and I have proven that to myself by virtue of the quality of my work since 1999 and the amount of it. That I am far more inspired, far more prolific in my work then, without the use of marijuana. So I was -- I had a -- I had an erroneous belief about it.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Do you believe that your own use of substances, including all those that we've mentioned, played any role in who you were at the time of the murder?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It was part of the culture that I was -- that I was a part of. It was -- went hand-in-hand with the counterculture, youth movement of the 1960's, and I was very much a part of that from the time I was 16, being in the music scene and playing music for the concerts that were central to that lifestyle back in those days. And it was part of that lifestyle and part of that culture where there was a lot of, and I'm not saying that I used it a lot, but there was a lot of substance experimentation use at that time. I never got into any hard drugs, I really -- I saw what happened to my friends, with methadrine, and heroin and things like that. I lost friends to that, and so I never picked that up, at all. But it -- I think it did, as it did with all of this, it helped to -- helped to, you know, it contributed, to some extent, into this sort of -- sort of our attitudes towards the establishment and our lifestyle, which was, you know, free love, peace, anti-war, creative outbursts. There was a lot of good things about it in that regard, but there were also a lot of downsides and --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What were some of the downsides?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, the downsides were drug use because it -- I remember we used to go to a theatre, and watch Reefer Madness, and just, you know, smoke a joint, watch Reefer Madness and crack up at the attitudes about that movie. You know, that the -- that had been put out, I think, in the fifties. And how ridiculous it seemed to us that people had that attitude about it. But we became very arrogant towards other people that were not part of our culture, and I think that that was, you know, that helped to contribute to the sort of divisiveness that really came around '68 and '69 when things really, really got intense in the culture. And in the parent culture, as well, as there was a lot of --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I would say that what we used to call the establishment.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: The parent cultures.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Or the culture of our parents that we disagreed with on the, you know, on the basis of the war. In particular, the Vietnamese War was a huge factor, the draft.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That was a backdrop to much of what occurred. So prior to your involvement with this murder, prior to your involvement with all the parties that played a role in this series of events that ultimately became part and parcel, unfortunately, of that era. You were earning a living as a musician.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you indicated earlier that you were able to earn a living, and you did so from age 17 or at least you had income as a --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- musician from age 17. Did you make pretty good money as a musician before your arrest for this murder?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Pretty good money? I made enough money to live on. And you know, feed myself, feed my dog, help with the income. Usually my girlfriends -- the girlfriends that I had were usually creative, too. And they were sewing things, and putting them in shops. So we had a joint income when I had a girlfriend.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I've read in the record information, I believe from years ago, suggesting that you played with some big name acts. I mean, acts that are still very well-known today; is that true?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, some of the people that played in bands that I had formed, and I had joined a band at 17 that did become very well known. At the time, they weren't when I was playing with them. My band, The Orkustra in San Francisco, became -- I was with them for two years, and we became pretty well-known in that -- in that city, in the Bay Area. And I had a subsequent band after that, we gigged with a lot of very well-known, you know, we shared venues with a lot of very well-known acts from that time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you played what instruments, then?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Primarily guitar. I could also play, you know, horn, and other instruments, bouzouki, sitar, exotic stringed instruments but primarily electric guitar.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: As an aside, you still play music, today; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You actually use instruments, or is it all electronic now or what do --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I use instruments. I've done a lot of electronic work, as well, but I still play guitar and teach guitar.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And we'll talk about that, I'm sure, later in the hearing, here. You've reviewed the Appellate Decision which provides an overview of the murder of Mr. Hinman; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I'll incorporate the facts of the commitment offense as found in the Appellate Decision on pages 1 through 26. And Mr. Campbell indicated that you would prefer to have the Panel rely upon the record as it's available to us regarding your actions back then. And there is, as Mr. Campbell represented, plenty of material. Some of it very recent because you did discuss the -- well, there's statements attributed to you in documents submitted quite recently by Mr. Campbell. And at this point I'll refer to a number of documents that contain within the document entitled, memorandum in support of Suitability Hearing for inmate Robert Beausoleil, specifically pages 24, 25, 26 of that -- and 27 of that document. You've read this; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And does this accurately reflect your current --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- views regarding this murder?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Forgive me, I've lost a tab, here. Bear with me. The clinician recounts their interaction with you concerning the murder on pages 13 and 14 of the Comprehensive Risk Assessment. There are some direct quotes, there are some paraphrases, as well. The clinician suggests that you admit full complicity in this crime. And the clinician opined that your current version of the commitment offense does attribute full responsibility to you. The clinician suggests that, nonetheless, your insight is not complete into the motives behind it, and that the clinician suggests that at the time of the Risk Assessment at least perhaps you lacked appropriate appreciation of the significantly antisocial and predatory motivations that existed at the time. You didn't have a history of committing violent crimes before the commitment offense.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And so I think that is something that clearly was of particular interest to the clinician. It's been of interest to previous Panels, as well. You aren't an individual who came to that stage of your life with a history of rolling drunks, or beating people up, or robbing liquor stores, or being involved in gang activity, things of that nature. You were -- you were a musician. So a few questions. Prior to the commitment offense, did you become involved in acts of violence which were not reported to law enforcement? It's not uncommon for people in nightclubs or bars to get into disagreements that become physical altercations, that happens. Did that happen with you?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So you discussed this in the past, and you've discussed it recently, but I do want to give the opportunity today, for our purposes in today's hearing, we're creating a new record today, obviously. To tell us in brief why you believe you murdered Mr. Hinman.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Frankly, in all honesty, I did not have a good reason. So you ask why, I could -- I could tell you the factors, I could tell you the things that I was thinking, the kind of the emotions that were at play. As in terms of putting it into some sort of a logical form, where it makes sense, it is probably not going to be possible.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, let me -- let me clarify, then. I'm certain I have not read every statement attributed to you regarding this murder. I am aware that at various times you've been dishonest about what occurred.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I mean, completely dishonest, and you've provided a variety of statements over the years. But I have also reviewed, with particular interest, statements attributed to you. Some direct quotes, some via your counsel, that are recent. And they appear far more consistent. And so I'm not looking for a logical explanation for a crime which, I believe, based upon my preparation for today's hearing, defies logic.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I am interested in what you now recognize as causative factors that led to you murdering Mr. Hinman.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had a desperate need, at that time, to demonstrate to others who were in my life who I thought I needed the acceptance of. A desperate need to prove myself as a man, to show that I was capable of being tough, you know, and I will say that the people who I was hoping to impress were at least somewhat criminally oriented. I didn't necessarily want to be a criminal, but I did want the respect of individuals I thought, at that time, were strong, you know, were masculine. And those were things that I didn't see myself as being, but wanted to be or wanted to be seen like. At that time, I couldn't even grow a beard. I really felt inadequate, you know, around some of these guys. But I wanted to -- wanted to find acceptance, I wanted to find a sense of belonging among a group of people that -- and you know, there were some bikers that I, in particular, I was thinking were about something, you know. They were -- a lot of it was romanticization, I was romanticizing what kind of people they were. You know, I didn't see clearly what kind of people they were. I was seeing my fantasy of what they were, and you know, kind of a freedom bound, free spirited lifestyle, riding motorcycles, and hanging out, and having comradery and those kinds of things. That's what I -- that's what I saw, it's not really like that I've since learned, but at that time I wanted the acceptance of people that were in that circle.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The picture I have in my mind, you're -- it seems talented, young musician.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Earning a living, living the lifestyle. It's not clear to me why you would want to, as I've believe you've said in the past, somewhat step outside of that peace, love, freedom mentality and start to affiliate yourself with individuals who were, you now recognize, violent criminals.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I will answer that by saying that the context of those times played into that. This was, you know, 1969 is when this happened, and 1968, there was a lot of disintegration in the culture at that time as a whole. There was never a time, I don't think, not even now when there was such a division in the country, and the level of violence that was emerging, you know, we had -- there had just been the assassination of Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy, among others. I mean, and a lot of people who didn't get as much notice.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I understand that, and I agree with you but why would you, a talented, young musician, living the life you were living in Los Angeles, building a career for yourself, want to move away from the --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because it was disintegrating. The music scene was disintegrating, the level of distrust that had gotten into the recording industry and the music industry had, you know, it just had begun to disintegrate.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And so -- and I found myself kind of gravitating away from that, into other areas.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And obviously you did, and you've spoken to that in the past so I'm not -- I don't want to retread ground that, really, I think, has been pretty well covered.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But I am curious about -- the world is full of struggling musicians with great talent.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But very few of them, when they realize that the ground upon which they have tried to build a foundation is crumbling, choose to ally themselves with outlaw biker gangs.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Which it sounds as if this group was. And certainly, the whole group surrounding Charles Manson was kind of in that mold. So why would you move in that direction rather than going to college, and becoming a school teacher and teaching music, or going as you have, since then, becoming involved in some corporate or semi-corporate type of venture that would allow you to pursue your talents in a more prosocial way?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think it -- I think a lot of it came out of that inadequacy, and looking for some, again, I'm looking in all the wrong places. I admit that it doesn't really even make sense to me because I don't see myself the same way now that I saw myself then. And I did feel certain inadequacies in the world, in the fraternity of men. I think maybe I didn't see other men to emulate outside of that circle at that particular time. I know that's probably an inadequate answer, but --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, I'm noting that you didn't point the finger at your own sexual assault as --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't think that that played into it specifically. I think maybe it contributed to those feelings of inadequacy, of, you know, of, you know, effeminate, although I'm not homosexual and was not. I looked very youthful, and I've been told that at that time I was kind of effeminate looking and I was trying to overcome that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, you got a beard now.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. Such as -- such as it is, it's not much, man.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. All right. And I think you had a communication with the clinician just a few weeks ago, really. Well, six months or so ago, which is consistent with the exchange that you and I have just had. This murder occurred nearly five decades ago, and there are some aspects of it which will always defy logic. And clearly, there are aspects of the mechanics of it which this Panel will not know. There were a number of individuals who were involved, some directly, such as yourself, others, peripherally in Mr. Hinman's death. And it seems to me that an attributing responsibility to these different individuals for what they did or did not do is where past dishonesties, past misstatements, not only by yourself, but by other individuals, as well.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Lies. So I'd like to take just a minute because we are creating a record, today, to kind of make that straight for our purposes, today. When you think back to the individuals who played a fairly direct role, were either at the scene of the Hinman residence at various times, or played a direct, physical role or an indirect role because they were aware of what occurred and failed to take appropriate action. Who did what, and who is responsible for what? And let's start with you, so you can --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. Well, you asked who is responsible for what, and I believe myself to be responsible for all of it. No one else made the decision for me to go to Gary Hinman's house with the intention of robbing him. No one made that decision for me, not that it wasn't planted in my mind, not that it wasn't played on in a -- in a manipulative way, as I now see clearly, by individuals that I was trying to impress. You know, frankly, I was played for a sucker. I was played as a, you know, I was a wannabe, and these guys were having -- kind of having fun with me by, in a sense, daring me to show how tough I could be. That said, I am the one who is responsible for having made that decision to go to Mr. Hinman's house and take from him what belonged to him. And that set in motion everything else that happened subsequently. And so even those actions that I did not commit, and that I would not, under any circumstances that I can imagine, have done. I nevertheless set up the scenario for those things to happen, so I feel responsible for those, as well. Unexpectedly, Charles Manson and Bruce Davis, within the company, Bruce Davis showed up at the residence, there had been a call made, unbeknownst to me, to the ranch. And evidently, something was communicated that Charlie's girls were in danger, probably because there was a couple of his people with me. And he came in the front door, and this was after I had basically realized that there was -- this was a pointless, senseless thing that I had done to go take money from Gary in the first place, and I was ready to leave. And Charles Manson showed up at the house, and barged in and before anybody could say anything, he slashed Gary across the face with a -- with an -- with a knife, with a long, kind of a sword-like knife, and --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So what was Mr. Manson's role in the murder? What was he responsible for?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That's what he was responsible for. He slashed Gary's face, he was under the belief, evidentially, my assumption is that it was, at that time, that he was under the belief that Gary had been able to get the gun that I had taken with me to the residence away from me. Because he actually did, at one point.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But the time Mr. Manson arrived, you had regained possession of it.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had regained --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- possession of --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So was Mr. Manson one of the people who you earlier stated was daring you to show how tough you could be?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, he was one of the people, I think, that I would want to -- want to have impressed.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Not specifically daring me, no. That was actually Danny DeCarlo and Bruce Davis, who were --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. DeCarlo, who was involved with the --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- with the Straight Satans.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- motorcycle gang, and Mr. Davis was involved with Mr. Manson.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Well, he was also involved with the -- with Danny DeCarlo. They were --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So those were the three individuals that you wanted to show how tough you could be, too?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, among them. I was really kind of thinking more in a general way, not necessarily those specific individuals. Although, those were the individuals who I was interfacing with personally, at that time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Got it. And I think I'm clear. I'm going to interrupt you because I think the record's pretty clear.




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So what was -- you've spoken in brief concerning what Mr. Manson's role was in this. I want to keep the focus as tight as I reasonably can, here.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What was Mr. Davis' role in the murder of Mr. Hinman?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He didn't -- I think he was just there to back up Charlie. He did take me to the residence to begin with, he and Danny DeCarlo. But he didn't participate in any violent action. It was his gun, in fact, it was he who had given me the gun ahead of time, and I had, at that time, I had never used a gun before in my life.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Danny DeCarlo did not involve himself at the residence, he didn't go inside, he wasn't -- he was not a participant.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: They didn't do anything. They were -- they had gone -- I was under -- I understood that they had come along for the ride.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Other than that one of the women apparently called Mr. Manson, did they play any role in causing the murder to occur?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So why didn't you shoot Mr. Hinman, rather than stab him?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because the gun had been taken back by Danny DeCarlo, I mean, by, excuse me, by Bruce Davis and --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And they had already left.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. The reason I assumed that they had come there because they thought Gary had the gun was because when Charlie and Bruce Davis came into the house, Bruce Davis asked Gary, where's the gun? So he didn't ask me where it was, and I said I have it.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And then he took it back at that point.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Prior to the murder, there had been an issue of a purported drug debt based upon mescaline, which you functioned as the intermediate in a sale which transpired between Mr. Hinman and individuals involved with the motorcycle gang; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Prior to any discussion which you had with Mr. Hinman over this mescaline, and I presume you had some, you were the intermediary, prior to that you had known Mr. Hinman for some time. You had lived at his residence with your girlfriend at some point, in a separate dwelling, I suppose it sounds like. Had you ever had friction with Mr. Hinman?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: None. No. No. He was --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Had Mr. Hinman ever threatened you in any way?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. He was actually -- he was a decent man. He was a really decent man.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So when you think back to what occurred, which I'm certain you have -- it seems to me logical that there were various junctures at which you could have changed the course of events in such a --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- way that there would not have been a loss of life.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, I have -- I have played out many, many scenarios. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So what scenarios seem, to you, to have been, in retrospect, the most prosocial scenarios you could have taken?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: If I had truly been the man that I wanted to be, that I wanted to be then, I would have taken Gary after he had been injured, I would have taken him to the hospital and faced the music.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You're talking, I suppose, prior to that, and so I'm kind of backtracking --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. I'm kind of backtracking --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- from that point, but that would be -- that is the thing that I think I regret the most, is not having the courage to do that, to face down the fear, and anxiety, the paranoia that I was kind of experiencing at that time. And to do the right thing by him. That would have -- prior to that, I, you know, just going there to rob him. I didn't fully believe that he had sold bunk to me in transaction that had occurred. I certainly did not think of him -- actually, I don't want to say it. I didn't think of him as a drug dealer, per se. It was a very, you know, he sold a little marijuana and some other, you know, hippie, like peyote and stuff like that to friends to help make ends meet. He didn't make a lot of money teaching piano lessons at UCLA. So that's just -- he was not a drug dealer, I never thought of him as a drug dealer, and so that is no justification for what I did. But getting involved with that group of people, and acting as go between in the first place, I had never done anything like that, never got involved in dealing drugs. But I wanted to impress those guys, and that was --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- where it started.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. And I get that. So maybe I didn't ask the question well, but there were a number of junctures at which you could have changed the course of events. I mean, you were one of the drivers, here. There were other people involved, but you were the -- you were the key driver, you were the linchpin, so to speak. So you had a situation where you had facilitated this transaction, the buyers were dissatisfied, they were angry at Mr. Hinman, they wanted to be repaid and possibly there were others involved who wanted more than that from Hinman. You wanted to impress these individuals, and you regarded them as individuals that you wanted to emulate and yet, you could have taken action that would have caused everything to turn out differently. What could you have done, other than not get involved in the first place, other than after things had already gone south, take Mr. Hinman to the hospital, what else could you have done?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: At which point, sir?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Let's say from the time that you were already an intermediary, from the time that you went over to Mr. Hinman's house to attempt to extract funds from him. When that didn't happen, what could you have done differently?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: All of those things I could have done differently. I could have said, you know, I'm not a thief, Gary's my friend, Gary's a good man, he's done nothing to deserve any sort of mistreatment, having anything taken from him. And just denied, and say, you know, stood up to those guys who were trying to convince me that he had sold them, through me, something that they didn't appreciate, that they didn't, for whatever reason, you know, wanted their money back. If I could have had the courage to say, you know, I'm not doing that. I'm not --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Why would that have taken so much courage? What would have been the logical -- with everything that you know today, what would have been the logical, with everything that you know today, what would have been the logical --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: They were pretty, you know, intimidating individuals. I mean, I must say that they were -- I felt intimidated by them. You know, and I think part of that was, you know, that intimidation was one of the things that gave me the impression that they were like, strong people. You know, that they had some sort of --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So what did you think the downside would be? What do you think the downside would have been if you had been strong enough to say no, I'm done with this?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I would have taken a beating. I would have taken a beating.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, or I don't think it would have gone any further than that, but could have. But I don't -- I could have taken a beating.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So you didn't want to get beat up?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think that was a lot of it. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Okay. We're going to take a short break. It's a biological break. The time is now 11:30.

(Off the record)


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The time is 11:43. So Mr. Beausoleil --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- prior to the murder, and the -- and the clinician points this out, as well, you were affiliating with individuals who were perhaps more aggressive than you, perhaps more violent than you, perhaps more criminally inclined than you but you wanted to appeal to them. You wanted to be more like them than you were. Is that kind of it, in a nutshell?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, I don't think that I really wanted to be like them. I wanted to be accepted by them. I wanted to be respected by them, but I don't think I really wanted to be like them, necessarily.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Prior to the commitment offense, prior to the murder of Mr. Hinman --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- had you been involved in physical altercations with any of these individuals, Straight Satans, anybody in the Manson group? Physical fights?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. Not in physical fights. None. None at all, except I did have, before when this incident happened, prior to the situation that developed regarding Mr. Hinman and related to that I had one of the guys, it wasn't a member of the Straight Satans, it was a Hells Angel who hung out with them, he grabbed me from behind and held a knife up to my throat as a kind of a --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- a threat. You know, I was being criticized for what had -- what had happened.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What had happened with what?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: What had happened with the mescaline that I had provided? You know, I mean, that was -- that was the place to, you know, I think I go back to regrets, you know, in stages of where I could have made better choices, and that was a, you know, getting involved in a -- in a drug deal for no better reason than because I thought, you know, they wanted to have a -- it was their ten-year anniversary for this motorcycle club and they were going to have a big party down in Venice where their headquarters were. And I wanted to be a part of that party, and so when they said well, we want to get some stuff to take to the party, I volunteered. So you know, it was right -- there was a - - there was a stage right there where, I mean, really, what was I thinking, you know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. So were the Straight Satans and the Hells Angels kind of clubs that got along with each other?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. They were part of what they used to call, back in those days, in fact, I think they still have that designation, they called them the One Percenters, and that there were certain motorcycle clubs that --



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So up until the arrival of Mr. Davis, and Mr. Manson -- and Mr. Campbell, I'm not trying to push the envelope, here. If I go someplace you don't want me to go, let me know and I'll redirect.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But I am curious about this. I wasn't able to find a response to the following question in the record.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: No. I understand that you have your own interests that you want to try to get to the issues that weren't addressed before, and you're okay with that?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm okay with it.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you. Yeah. And I am interested in moving on, so I'll go forward. Prior to the arrival of Mr. Manson and Mr. Davis on scene, what was your -- what was your most desirable outcome?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: To leave right then. I was ready to leave. I was apologizing to Gary at the time when --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And what did you anticipate would be the consequences of you just leaving at that time? What was the plan? Were you going to go back to Santa Barbara, head for San Francisco? Where were you going to go?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was going to go back to Spahn Ranch, and take to the motorcycle club a vehicle that Gary had signed over as compensation. He didn't have any money to compensate them, but he had an old VW van, and he signed over the pink slip to me and I was prepared to leave at that point.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Did you believe that there would be any consequences to the manner of which you extracted the ownership of that vehicle from Mr. Hinman?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: He could call the police, for instance.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. He could have, and I didn't think he was going to. I mean, he assured me that he wasn't, that it was, you know -- but the very -- it was in the back of my mind. I wasn't too frightened of that at that point. I was willing to say, okay, you know, I was willing to take that chance and leave.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. So fast forward, Mr. Davis and Mr. Manson have arrived, Mr. Hinman has sustained serious injuries, time has elapsed. What was your intent and desired outcome at that point? Things had gone south.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: They'd gone sideways in a big way, but what was your desired outcome at that point?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: To try to figure out a way, and I know this sounds kind of absurd, but I was hoping that there would be a way to patch Gary up to a point where he would be okay and we could -- and I could leave without, you know, without having to, you know, bring in the police.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, but at that point, didn't you realize that given the severity of Mr. Hinman's injuries that law enforcement would likely be involved at some point, or did you still think --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That's what I finally -- that's what finally dawned on me, that I wasn't going to be able to resolve it without that happening. And my fear of that happening led to my decision to take his life, instead. Which is, I mean, that's just totally -- it's so hard for me to say it because it's so totally not what I would have wanted to do to anyone.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Understood. So after the murder, you were arrested sometime later in one of Mr. Hinman's vehicles on the Questa Grade in San Luis Obispo County, asleep.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Now, you were 21 years old, you had just gotten in, as you put it, over your head and in some respects it would seem that you were in well over your head based upon my knowledge. But you were definitely all in, at that point. I mean, you were fully submerged in this series of tragic events. So how on earth could you, as an intelligent young at that point, think that a way to extricate yourself from what you were in is to take the victim's vehicle and drive away in it?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know that I really even had an intention, certainly not a clear -- ostensibly, I was getting away, and I just wanted to distance myself from those people because, I mean, after this has happened, I was -- I was a shattered individual. I was absolutely devastated by what I had done.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Did you have a girlfriend then?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: She was with me. In fact, I left her. I left her, and she was at Spahn Ranch at that time. I didn't know what else to do. I couldn't take her with me, I just wanted to distance myself from those people.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Why couldn't you take her with you?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because I really didn't know where I was going. I mean, I just didn't. She was pregnant, and I didn't know -- I didn't -- I could barely take care of myself at that point.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What was your girlfriend's name?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And so where were you headed? You said you didn't know where you were going, but --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I just was headed --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- obviously, you were on the freeway, you were going somewhere.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was going north, the car broke down. That's a, you know, it was a wreck to begin with, and it -- and I was trying to figure out how to get -- I was at a place on the crest where there was no place to go.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Right. But what was your destination?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: San Francisco, to begin with, just --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- just north.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- general plan you had in your head?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had no plan, just wanted to get away. Create as much distance between myself and those people. I mean, I did not see any of them as people I wanted to be like, as people I wanted to impress.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: As far as you were concerned, at that point was your relationship with your girlfriend over?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't think I could have put that together whether it was, or whether it wasn't.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: To what extent do you believe that the abuse of substances, marijuana or any other substance, played a direct role in your decision-making at the time of the commitment offense?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't think it played a direct role. I think it led -- it fed into the lifestyle that I had been living.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. The question was that --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And we've already discussed how --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: (Inaudible.) Were you under the influence of any substance at the time of this murder?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was under the influence of being awake for about three days.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: How'd you manage to stay awake for three days?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because I couldn't possibly have gone to sleep under the circumstances.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Because of where you were, and what you were doing?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I had already been up for -- I wasn't with Gary for three days; okay? I was with Gary for roughly 30-something hours, roughly around 30-something hours, overnight, through one whole day. But I had already been up for at least a full day.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: How'd you manage to stay awake and alert? Were you taking anything to help you stay awake?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I've never used speed or anything like that.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Drank coffee, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Okay. So after the murder, did you, between the time of the murder and the time of your arrest, did you abuse any substances?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Marijuana or any other substance?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: This probably doesn't matter, but I just want to ask because there's a hole in my knowledge, before you climbed -- well, before you headed north, did you gather up any personal possessions? Musical instruments, clean underwear, anything?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think I might've had a guitar with me. I might've had a, I'm not sure about that, I didn't have anything else. I had clothes I was wearing, I had a -- and nobody knew I was leaving.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Not very much, no.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I might've had 20 dollars.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: When you think back to who you were at the time of this murder, do you think you were a dangerous guy?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I never thought of myself as a dangerous person, no.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: How about today? When you think back to your decision-making, and how you approached life, what your objectives were in life at that time, and the way that you conducted yourself, obviously, you committed a murder.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think I was, at that point, I think I was quite dangerous. I think that -- you know, I've studied this in myself. You know, I've studied --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You've written about it, I've read it. That's one of the reasons I'm asking you question.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. I studied this part, this need that I had for acceptance, and for a sense of belonging and those kinds of things. And really, you use words like that, and you think about it and really those are pretty wholesome needs. You know, it's pretty normal to want to be in a social circle, and be accepted and all of that. Where I was really screwed up is in the strategy I was using to meet that need, you know, it was in the sort of fictionalization that I had gradually allowed myself to believe, or buy into or develop that behaving as a -- as a tough individual, as a -- as a hard-case was somehow going to impress people and get the need that I had satisfied. Which was completely wrong.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Prior to the murder of Mr. Hinman, had you ever functioned as an intermediary in a narcotics transaction before?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And what was the total dollar value of that transaction?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: A thousand dollars, it was one dollar for each tablet of mescaline, which is peyote, basically. It's a --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I have more questions, I don't, at this time, Commissioner.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Beausoleil, I just had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask you of way back in your childhood, when you -- when you moved into your garage at nine years old. Why?


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: I mean, you had a stable family it sounds like.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I really, honestly, I had a very --

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Brothers and sisters doing all right, you had intact stuff, it didn't sound like you had any kind of abuse coming from them.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No, it wasn't -- I didn't move out to the garage because it was so bad in the house.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I moved into the garage because this little house on the mesa in Santa Barbara was one of those that -- it was a tract home that had been built, you know, after the war in the fifties. And my dad bought it on the GI Bill. I had two brothers and two sisters, and I was sharing this really small bedroom with two brothers and they were both considerably younger than me. And so I just wanted my own space.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And so I started, you know, I got permission to sleep on a storage shelf out in the yard with an air mattress. And you know, I asked my folks if that would be okay just to, you know, just like sort of camping out. And it gradually evolved into where I had a little corner of the garage for a room.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: You started leaving home, doing other things and you said you had some distress because you knew you knew you were causing your parents pain because of your runaways. Is that accurate?


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: All right. So you had -- what was pulling you there? What was pulling you there? I mean, obviously you had some discrepancies within yourself as far as your behavior was concerned, what was pulling you there?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Pulling me to run away?


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: The desire to see something other than Santa Barbara, I think, was primarily it. It wasn't to get away, and I always felt, really, tremendously guilty about making my mom worry, especially. And making both of my parents worry, but my mom, especially. But my desire to be out on my own, and to see something more than the neighborhood was what pulled me. It wasn't -- there wasn't anything bad at home that I was trying to get away from, necessarily. I didn't feel like I had a close relationship with my father, and I -- that did weigh on me heavily, and we had problems because of that, you know. But I didn't feel like I had his respect, and I think that that played in later to my desire for finding acceptance from older men. I think that played into that. In fact, I would be certain. I am certain that that played into it.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Boy's camp, you said, was hard but a positive experience.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Capsulize that real quick. What do you mean it was a positive experience?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I had peers, and I was among kids my own age that, you know, they had had troubles at home, too. But it wasn't -- this was not at Youth Authority, this was a boy's camp.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And so I liked the, you know, we -- one of -- one of the therapies that we were given, and we didn't think of it as a therapy at the time because we didn't know anything about that, but we had a weekly rugby game. And I had never had that kind of sports --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- exposure, and I loved that. I learned how to swim.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: So there was kind of --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And I liked the work, I like, you know, I became more physically -- kind of grew into myself a little bit at that point, and became, you know, physically stronger.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Yeah. And then you told Commissioner LaBahn that you were -- you were hanging with a group of people, and you were doing so to get the things that you needed.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And I don't follow precisely.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Your motivation for hanging with that group was so that you could get the things that you needed. Could you expound on that?


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: What was -- what was the --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm talking about when you say things, I was confused a little bit. I think you mean that what I was talking about as far as the needs that I had of --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- you know, the psychological --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- and needs that I had. Yes. I was trying to find acceptance, and a sense of affirmation or validation --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- as being -- as being someone who was capable, and you know, I didn't have any problem on stage. In the music scene, and all of that, I was very confident in that environment but that was the only place where I felt secure with myself.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Outside of that area, I felt quite insecure. And I was looking for a way to feel more secure --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- among older individuals.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Thank you. That's all, Commissioner.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I just have one or two questions. Sir, your last hearing, in 2010.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: One of the main reasons for denial was a lack of insight into the causative factors of the life crime, basically. So my question is, you're telling us, and you've said this for a while, that the main motivation to commit this crime was you were trying to get in with the group, and it was essentially a bad -- a drug deal gone bad, I'm paraphrasing, but basically that's what it was about. But you read the testimony, and you read the Appellate Decision, and you read the Probation Officer's Report and there is a lot of evidence that says, and that -- sorry, and you also said Manson got involved kind of accidentally, almost, or he wasn't meant to be involved in this. But you read all those decisions, and other testimony and there's claims that no, Manson wanted Mr. Hinman robbed because of a 20 thousand dollar inheritance. You know, and it looks like it was, I don't want to use the word typical, but a typical Manson murder, almost. To, you know, lead into the race war that he wanted to create. There was the fact that the word political piggy was written in blood, and the paw print left to be of like, the Black Panthers. There was the fact that when you were stopped by the police, you told them that the car was sold to you by a black individual. So there's ample evidence that looks like, no, this is not a bad drug deal, this was part of the Manson Family, and part of a typical Manson Family murder. How do you reconcile the difference or the discrepancies in the stories?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Actually, I'm going to object. I mean, this is sort of the issue that, I mean, that I addressed in the memorandum. Because I mean, I understand, you're absolutely right, Commissioner, that there is substantial evidence, you know, suggestive of one possibility. I think that the problem here is that for the past few hearings, Mr. Beausoleil has explained his view of the situation, which I think the issue would be is it -- is it plausible, and otherwise does it reflect current dangerousness to the extent that this is how Mr. Beausoleil perceives the events that occurred at that time. Whether that discrepancy reflects any current dangerousness. And I feel like if we continue to go into the, you know, trying to compare and contrast the different stories, I don't know that that serves much function because that's been what's happened at every previous hearing. I don't know that that effects his insight, in my view.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, I guess that's a fair point. I guess my, just for the record, the main point I was trying to get was I know that he tells of the crime, I know what happened, I know you accept the responsibility for the murder. But the motivation for the murder, I think, is relevant if it's -- if it's you killed someone because of a drug deal gone bad versus you killed someone to create a nationwide race war. That could relate to dangerousness, I would -- in my opinion. That being said --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's okay. I don't really mind answering -- speaking to this a little bit. I mean, there's things about what happened after my arrest, and after I had nothing to do with. And you know, frankly, this thing about a race war, I never really heard about a race war until afterwards. And you know, this is the way it was characterized, that it was about a race war. I never heard that. What I heard was that, you know, Charlie wanted to take his people to the desert to avoid a race war. I never heard anything about him starting one, or any of that stuff. I never heard, by the way, about any 20 thousand dollar inheritance until my trial, until someone got up on the stand and said that he overheard Charlie talking about, you know, a 20 thousand dollar inheritance. But that was in a conversation I was not a part of. There were, you know, Charlie was a liar. I mean, he just lied to everybody. He manipulated people by telling different people different stories. And you know, the story that he told the other people would have been a story to one set of person, would have been a different story than he told to someone else. I would not -- I knew Gary. Gary was a friend of mine. I had known him for a little bit longer than I had -- before I met Manson. I mean, I had known him. I never knew anything about an inheritance, I never saw any indication that he had received one, or heard anything about it and if somebody had said that he had an inheritance I would have not believed it. I would -- I would have just thought it was somebody's fantasy.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: So I, you know, I mean, there are certain things that are part of this, and look, I know that there are discrepancies between what came to the Department of Corrections with me and what I'm telling you. I know that there are discrepancies, and I don't know how to reconcile those discrepancies. I can't say to you that, you know, I'm just going to agree with those things because I want you to, you know, I would be doing the same thing that I was doing when I was trying to impress the bikers, you know, if I'm trying to impress you by telling you certain things. I don't -- I'm trying to be honest with you in terms of my participation, and what those factors were that led up to my situation with Gary and with the other people that were involved. That's all I can do. I can't really speak to the, you know, I don't even -- the Manson mythology thing that's developed. A lot of that came afterwards, and I will say, I want to respond also to you did say that, you know, I was deflecting. I did a lot of blaming. I deflected on all. I could not accept responsibility for myself for some time, and I blamed Charlie at one point, and I blame, you know, a black person. There was the belief that -- there was a common belief among that group, the people at Spahn Ranch, that there was going to be a retaliation from an earlier situation from the Black Panthers. And so that was kind of in people's minds. But I am ashamed that I played on racial prejudice as a way to try to get myself out of trouble. You know, there's no -- I can't justify it, I can't try to put a better face on it than that. It was a shameful thing to do, trying to cover up the way I tried to cover up. Lying, blaming other people, all of those things are absolutely shameful and despicable in my mind now. But at the time, I was just scared, and desperate and doing things on the fly, and really lamely, childishly trying to -- trying to extricate myself from a bad situation. And it was, you know, absurd, it was ridiculous, of course. And I recognize that, how it ridiculous it is, now. It didn't take me actually that long, but I was, you know, I was pretty screwed up, you know, in those times. I was really pretty screw up, and I stayed screwed up for a while. I mean, it wasn't until -- I didn't -- I didn't wake up until -- I didn't begin to wake up until 1974.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Thank you. Well, I have one last question. And this is a who were you then to who are you now related question. We do these hearings all the time, obviously. A lot of inmates, gang, drive-by shooting, a robbery where the person gets killed, they tell me if it wasn't that person, that victim, it would have been another victim. It was a matter of time until I got caught because I was out of control. In your situation, if this didn't happen with Mr. Hinman, would you have, at some point, got involved in other murders, or do you think this was a one-time situation, got out of hand, went bad? Or was this part of your personality of no, I'm going to follow them until the ends of the earth kind of thing?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't believe it was I was going to follow them to the ends of the earth. However, the fact that I did kill a man that I -- that my psychological needs, or for lack of a better term, were such that they were, and that I was acting out because I was trying to impress people, I can't -- I have to say that I was dangerous then. That made me dangerous. However, had I don't -- I don't believe that I -- that it was a situation where if it hadn't happened then, it was going to happen later. I don't think it was any sort of hardwired thing in my makeup at that time. It was just a -- there was a predisposition to be -- to be subject to the kind of manipulations that I made myself subject to back then.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. A couple more questions, and then just so all participants know, my intention is to ask a few more questions, conclude with my colleagues and conclude discussion of the Risk Assessment. And then we'll take a short break, and we'll come back with post-conviction factors. Mr. Beausoleil, you were 21 at the time of the commitment offense, Mr. Hinman was considerably older than you; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Over a decade older, if I recall; is that right?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I believe he was 13 years older than me, roughly there.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He was, I think, 15, 16 years older than I was.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think he was -- I thought he was older. Someone told me he was 27 at the time, but I thought he was older than that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Closer to your age, but still older; correct?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. He was older. Yes.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He was older. He was about Charlie's age.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The clinician noted, again, obviously your age at the time of the commitment offense. The clinician suggests that prior to your involvement with the group at Spahn Ranch, including Mr. Manson, and this Straight Satan motorcycle group and that whole environment that you are already displaying some antisocial proclivities, but that your behavior worsened considerably. Once, as the clinician put it, you fell under their influence, I'm not certain the extent to which you were under their influence, but you certainly have made it clear that you were attempting to appeal to them and to be seen as acceptable to them and respected. The clinician concludes that it's reasonable to view you as having been susceptible to the influence of older, and charismatic and obviously highly antisocial peers at the time. The clinician suggests that it's possible that you were unable to fully anticipate and appreciate the consequences of your action at that time. And the clinician uses, as an example, your belief, which you've expressed to us as well, that you could go to Mr. Hinman's house, an older guy who was reasonably established, had been nice to you and extract funds from him without consequence. And then, subsequently, murder him and potentially get away with it. That's just profoundly naïve. Finally, that your behavior as a younger person, as a -- as a teenager, as a young boy and as an older teen was, the clinician observes, characterized by acts of recklessness and impulsivity. Certainly, you were far from the only 14-year-old to be hitchhiking to and from Santa Barbara County at that time, but it was nonetheless somewhat reckless as I think you, yourself, now recognize. And as you obviously did, based upon the one negative experience that we've discussed that resulted in you changing your behavior somewhat. The clinician suggests that many of these issues that may be hallmark features of you have been resolved with age, and with the maturation process and with experience. But that some behavior that may harken back to that type of impulsive behavior in which you don't follow allow for, identify, anticipate the consequences of your actions may be at play in some of the disciplinary issues which you've experienced and some of the bounces that you've had up against the system. Both in Oregon and in California. We'll certainly discuss those during today's hearing, as well. The clinician observed that your long term confinement, and again, you've been in prison for a long time. This murder occurred nearly five decades ago, you've been in custody for 47 years, in prison for 47 years or more. A long time, indeed. The clinician notes that there were no documented acts of violence prior to your arrest, and the clinician notes, I think, not entirely accurately that you have not been involved in any documented acts of violence since your arrival at the prison. I think there, years ago, I think that you got caught up in a couple of situations, if I recall. But certainly, it would be accurate to say that your long term incarceration has not been characterized by involvement in repeated acts of violence or assaultive behavior directed at other inmates. The opposite would seem to be --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- the case. The clinician noted your age, and determined that although you are 68, and you'll be 69 in just a few days, that your age is not really a significant mitigating factor. I mean, that's good for you because it suggests that you're aging well, taking good care of yourself and perhaps blessed with some good genes. I don't know. The clinician did consider your diminished physical capacity, we discussed that earlier in this hearing and it may come up again later in the hearing. The Panel, in reaching our decision concerning your suitability for parole, will certainly be mindful of your age and the medical challenges which you face, going forward. Overall, the clinician felt that you would present a low risk for violence if you were paroled at this time, and the clinician based that upon the review of your Central File, the test instrument which was used, the HCR-20, version III. And then -- and then also, the interview with you which, of course, is a valuable source of information. The clinician expressed some concern about a number of areas, observing that the commitment offense seems to be the product of impulsivity. You didn't apparently plan this murder for an extended period of time. It was, you indicate in the record, is pretty clear that it was likely to be an impulsive event, that you were involved in that time of -- at the time of a lifestyle which was characterized by pleasure-seeking recklessness. That you were -- you were not only involved with antisocial activities, and antisocial peers, but you were seeking their approval at the time. Which, as you pointed out, made you dangerous. The clinician seems particularly concerned with your use of marijuana. We may explore that later in this hearing. I don't know. That's kind of a sticky wicket from my perspective. I mean, in the state of Oregon, marijuana is pretty much legal in many circumstances. We've got a ballot measure here in California that may make it legal for recreation use, and certainly regardless of whether that ballot measure is successful, it would be an understatement to say that the way that the use of marijuana is viewed by the law in the state of California today, in all counties, and in some counties in particular, differs significantly from how it was viewed at the time that this murdered occurred. But nonetheless, marijuana is a substance that has wreaked havoc in many people's lives in my opinion and in my observation. And I note that you are not in agreement when I say that, so that is an issue and it was of concern to the clinician. Overall, I would describe this as a rather supportive Risk Assessment. And the Panel, in preparing for today's hearing, had access to prior Risk Assessments and the Panel also certainly reviewed that which was provided by Dr. Calistro in Oregon, who has evaluated you on a number of occasions. And I have before me, and have reviewed closely, the Assessment which that clinician prepared quite recently, in 2013. Before we take a brief break, do either of my colleagues have any additional questions?




(Off the record)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And we're back on record.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The time is 12:42. Commissioner?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. So sir, we're going to go over your post-conviction factors, now.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: You've been through this numerous times, you know how it works. We're going to focus on work, self-help, education, vocations, disciplinaries, any other miscellaneous things, and we're going to primarily be focusing on what you've done since your last hearing but we will obviously hit some older stuff, I'm sure. So your last hearing, I mentioned earlier, was December 13th, 2010. You received a five-year denial. You then filed a Petition to Advance which actually was granted, and that was on August 14th of 2014. But then there were numerous issues we're not going to get into, postponements, whatnot. So (inaudible) is the bottom line. So the bottom line is your last hearing was 2010. Main reasons for denial were lack of insight into the causative factors, the Panel had some credibility issues. One of the Panel members had a problem with your parole plans, I guess. So since then you were housed in Oregon for many years, you've recently come back to California so there is a little bit different way they transmit information of what you've been doing there. So if I'm missing stuff that you did in Oregon, please let me know. As far as vocationally, historically you have completed several vocations. You've completed electronics and printing in California.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And then you've taken many classes in Oregon, electronics, and what exactly have you completed in the Oregon system as far as vocations go?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I didn't take any specific vocations there. I was doing -- it was almost as soon as I got there I was, because I had a history with video, and they were interested in developing an information system for the institution, they had cables going to all the cells but they wanted -- they wanted to put together a channel that was for information, and for programming, for college, for communicating with the population from the administration and that sort of thing. They asked me, based on my video experience, if I'd be willing to take the lead role in that as far as the inmate worker sort of lead role, under staff supervision, of course. And so for most of my time up there in Oregon, I was the videographer. And I had a crew for a while, but it actually worked out better if I just did all the work --



DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: What I'm getting at is you learnt those new skills; correct?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: In Oregon, so marketable skills that when you're released, you would have --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. I mean, you know, I don't want to sound egotistical about it, but I want to say that I'm pretty much as good as it gets when it comes videography, video editing, audio production, you know, multimedia graphics and all of that sort of things. I've been -- I did it for almost all the whole time I was there.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And I have examples. They were submitted previously with the -- before the 2015 hearing, but if the Board would like to, you know, at some point see a sample of some of the work he did at Oregon, we have that here.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. We could potentially watch it on deliberations if these computers cooperate.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yeah. And I had -- I have my computer, I can show it to the Board if you're interested.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I'll be honest, I mean, I've read so many positive things about your video, I'm not that concerned with it. I know you have the skills.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Mr. Mahoney, may I ask a question?


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Do you have the resume that was included in the recent update that Mr. Campbell provided?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I probably have about two thousand pages of information on you, sir.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So if you want to give me something --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- for easy access, you're more than welcome to do that.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I just thought this might be helpful right now.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, I -- you can -- I'll be more than happy to take it if it makes it easier.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: You can just give it to the CO, he'll give it to me.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And that's your (inaudible) that we're going over. Do you have something that's going to make it easier for me to not have to --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah, that's --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- page through two thousand pages?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I just thought I might be --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Feel free to give it to me.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- might be beneficial.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It covers my -- all my vocations, my vocational training that I received in California and it covers the, you know, the old, what I guess would be called, on-the-job training with the video and that sort of thing. I started video here, in California, two different programs in California.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. Well, very good. Like I said, I've read into file numerous, many, many good things about your work.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I submitted that document with the supplemental memorandum.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. Like I said, I'm sure it's in there. There's just so much.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: This is one of the biggest files I've ever seen.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And I've been doing this a long time, so --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I saw it all yesterday, I did an Olson Review and I couldn't believe it.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. All right. Education, you -- I don't think there's anything new, but you got -- you've taken college classes.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I don't have any issue with your educational upgrades. As far as work assignments go, you are -- are you currently working as a clerk?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I am currently assigned as a clerk. It's clerk jobs around here are not that much. You know, they're not -- there's not that much going on. I do the work they ask me to, there has been some discussion of putting me back into doing some video work. Deputy Warden has indicated an interest in something along those lines, but there's nothing, it's all in pipedream stages at this point.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. And then you were -- you held job assignments in Oregon. You were working at -- you were the lead man. And we're going to get into your disciplinaries. You lost your job, I guess, over the most recent disciplinary?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. But prior to that you had been doing well, it looks like.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: They were going to, actually, they were moving my work station to -- I was going to be working on a project for the, they call it superintendent there, the Warden. He was going to -- they have what they call a core training. It's an inmate staffed training program. And so I was supposed to have the work station moved, and before I -- just as I was being transferred, that --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- was happening.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, why don't we move into the disciplinaries, then, sir. So just to get them on record, as far as California goes, I'm not going to even count the pending 115, that's a whole other -- we're not -- hasn't been adjudicated, yet. But not including that, I have ten 115s in California. The last one was for marijuana --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- in '88, which you -- I think there were three in Oregon. Is that -- one or three. One in '08, and the most recent, it looked like.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: As far as the disciplinaries?




INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think there were. Yeah.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. And the -- none of them were for violence, you know, in Oregon. The '03 was for a failure to comply with an order. You, I guess, were told to hang up the phone and you didn't. '08, you were in --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That was actually subsequently dismissed, by the way.





DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I'm not that concerned with that.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: They have, like I said, they have a different way of communicating information to us. '08, there was -- you were -- you were in a cell you weren't supposed to be in. I guess they --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- took from you a guitar. But I am concerned about the most recent 115, I'll be honest with you, sir.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Or they call them a disciplinary, whatever they call them. So we're going to get into that. Before we get into that, just for the record, I have a memo from our Investigative Unit that they had done since the last hearing. And they just talked about the -- you had a copy. That was the one they talked about the Facebook page in Oregon.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Right. And I wrote a letter to --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. I'm not talking about the Facebook stuff.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But just as far as the disciplinary goes --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- that you received, they just, the fact that (inaudible) is on page 4 of the investigation, they just mention, basically, that their standards are similar to California standards.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Some states are different, they -- you don't get a hearing, you don't get -- they're saying, basically, that their standards match up with ours as far as disciplinary procedure works. So the most recent one, I've got a lot of papers here, I need to pull it out, is from January 12th, 2015. And I'm just going to put it on the record, and then we'll talk about it a little bit.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: On January 12th, the OCO Production Coordinator Mondragon (phonetic) observed inmate Beausoleil enter the staff office cubicle at the call center at OSP through the front door. Inmate Beausoleil then began to work on the staff coffee to get it ready for the next day. After completing the coffee, you observed to exit the rear door of the staff cubicle, and place something on the doorframe. You continued back to your assigned desk after that. After observing the above incident, Mondragon went to investigate, and found the inmate Beausoleil had placed a strip of black tape on the doorframe. He reported that due to the tape being placed on the doorframe, the door appeared to be closed and secured. However, the modification to the doorframe prevented the locking mechanism from fully engaging. After discovering this, Mr. Mondragon showed the tape to Production Coordinator Fife (phonetic), and asked if he had given Beausoleil permission to place the tape on the doorframe. Mr. Fife said he had not. On January 13th, the following day, Mr. Mondragon observed inmate Beausoleil attempt to enter the staff cubicle through the rear door, but it was locked. Mr. Mondragon reported that inmate Beausoleil then commented, so I take it you didn't like my idea, and that's in quotes. Mr. Mondragon then informed inmate Beausoleil that this was not appropriate because he had not received permission or notified staff prior to doing this. He reported that inmate Beausoleil then stated he was just trying to find a more convenient process to getting into the staff cubicle when he needed to. Inmate Beausoleil was then informed that he could enter through the front door like every other inmate. Mr. Mondragon then confirmed with the manager that he had not authorized Beausoleil to place the tape on the door, and he had also not authorized any modification. Mr. Fife reported that the staff office cubicle contains two outside phone lines, a fax machine, multiple staff computers, staff personal property and food. And so the bottom line is you were basically found guilty for abusing, altering, defacing, misusing, tampering with materials or property and involving the functioning of a security device. So you were charged with other stuff, but escape, that got dismissed. They said there was no way you could escape, there was just an office. But so sir, I've got to be honest with you, when I prepped your case, and what I saw, this was the first, the biggest thing that probably jumped out of me. You've been down now for 46 years, 47 years and you -- and you know, I know you know this is wrong, why are you doing this and why, after all these years, are you putting a possible parole date on the line to do this?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I wasn't looking at it as being wrong at the time, to be frank with you about it. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I do see the error in judgement. This was a situation where I had become complacent, this is like an office environment. I had forgotten I was in prison, frankly. Not entirely forgotten, but it was not foremost in my mind. It was, you know, cubicles. This was -- this was a cubicle that we're talking about. And you know, I had kind of taken it on myself to make coffee for the staff, and it was just I needed to -- they were having a meeting in the front of the office, where the front door is, and I was trying to avoid interrupting their meeting with other inmates. And so I, you know, it was stupid to do it. I mean, I forgot that I was -- that this is actually a prison, not just an office, and that you don't put a piece of tape on a door jamb under any circumstances in a prison. And it's completely a lapse of judgement, and you know, I didn't see it as the way it could be interpreted, obviously, or I wouldn't have done it at all. It was a piece of -- it was tape that I normally used in my job, it was a piece of gaffers tape used in video, and I just needed to get the water for the coffee, and to be able to bring it in -- bring it back into the office without disturbing them. And I didn't intend to leave it there, but I don't have a good answer for you. I don't have a -- there's no excuse, I just, I made a mistake. I forgot where I was to some extent, and it certainly woke me up to the fact that I have to be extremely conscientious about any decision I make. Especially, you know, if I -- same kind of thing could happen on -- if I'm on parole and make just a simple error in judgement. I just can't. I have to be a lot more observant and cognizant of the decisions that I make. So I didn't, you know, try to get out of it, or convince them that it wasn't, you know, I admitted my culpability for misusing the piece of tape and --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. I see that. But I mean, probably the most basic rule of the prison is that doors lock, and cells lock because it's prison. And I'm mean --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, hold on. And to now, just a common sense standpoint, whether or not it's true, it looks to me like, you know, well, someone would do this because they want to get to an outside phone line, or they want to get to a computer that you could have had access to by doing that. Which you would not have access to in a regular prison setting, you know, so --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I can tell you that none of that was in my mind whatsoever. I mean, it wasn't -- I understand where you're coming from, and I make no excuses, I --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, what's wrong with going -- why couldn't you go through the front door that everyone else used?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I normally did go through the front door that everyone else used. I was just getting coffee water, and I didn't want to go through their meeting which was -- it had a group of people standing in the middle of the door. I wasn't intending to leave there. I didn't put the tape over the -- over the locking mechanism at all. The door would have closed all the way.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. But it wouldn't have locked.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. It would, actually lock.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Which is even more scary because it would have appeared to be locked, but it would not have been locked. It wasn't like the door was propped open with a chair, or something, so everybody knew oh, this guy can get in and out. The door appeared to be locked.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I would have disagreed with that, I don't think it did.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, that's the way it reads.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I know how it reads, and I -- the hearings officer didn't agree with the way it read. And so he was -- he had the video tape, because there's a security camera in that area. So and he reviewed it, and he said -- he dismissed that portion of it, of the, you know. I don't --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, you said that you did it so that -- because you didn't want to bother a meeting --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- to get coffee water. So were you going to take the tape off when you were done?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But then, the next day you tried to walk into that door, and you were surprised when it was locked.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I actually didn't try to -- I did mention it to them, you know, I did notice that the tape had been taken down.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, that's not what it says. It says, I just read it, but on January 13th, Mr. Mondragon observed inmate Beausoleil attempt to enter the staff cubicle through the rear door, but it was locked and he report -- and then he commented, so I take it you didn't like my idea. So it appears that you didn't realize they had taken the tape off, and you still thought the next day that it was there and you could go in the back door.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, a lot of the times the door was just open. I wasn't necessarily thinking that it was, you know, they left that door unlocked much of the time. It wasn't locked that particular time when I was trying to get coffee water, which was the only reason I put that there. It was only intended to be a temporary, for that particular instance.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Again, that's not how it reads. I mean, it reads that you went there --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I understand, sir.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- the next day, and you were surprised to find that the tape was removed and that's why you commented, you didn't like my idea. Not that you thought it would be, I mean, it reads differently than you're telling it, but --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I understand that there's a - - there are discrepancies in that regard, but I don't know how to answer that other than to --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- tell you what happened from my standpoint.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I mean, let me -- let me say, I made a mistake in that.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That was, I violated the rule, the property rule, I used a piece of tape in a way that was inappropriate for all the reasons that they, you know, it's a door in a prison. You know, you don't put a piece of tape on a door. And it was stupid on my part, I was embarrassed that I had allowed myself to become that complacent, and not realize that it could perceived the way it was written. I didn't see it that way when I was doing it, at all, or I would have not done it, believe me.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, I would argue, sir, that it doesn't seem like complacence, it seems more like entitlement that you felt that you were --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Maybe that was, too. Yeah. I think maybe there is some truth to that, that I've -- you know, I've been working for them for a long time, and, you know, I was in a situation of trust and I think -- I think maybe there was, you know, I don't -- I don't think I thought oh, I'm entitled to do this. I just think that there was a general sense of feeling that I, you know, that I was within a reasonable mode of our relationship of what it had been for a number of years.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I did think, Commissioner. How long had you worked in that particular environment, that office environment?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had worked just in -- maybe for about a year in that particular area. They kept bouncing me from one place to another within the what they called the OCE, Oregon Corrections Enterprises area. There was a number of shops, there was a large furniture factory, there was a large metal shop and --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Work in that particular office very -- for about a year?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: For about maybe a year, a year and a half because it had been newly built. Yeah.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But you had worked in the larger --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: For more like six, seven, six years, I think.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Six, seven years.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And with respect to that particular office environment within which you had access to that time, you mentioned that there were cameras.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Security cameras in the area.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: In the -- in the call center. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And were you aware that there were cameras --



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And was footage from those cameras used in adjudicating the disciplinary action?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And was the hearing officer or whomever able to view footage that shows you placing the tape?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And at the time you placed that tape did you know, if someone had said hey, there's a camera, would that have been surprising to you?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. Not at all. No, I didn't -- I honestly did not think I was doing anything wrong.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Did you take any steps while you placing that tape in the location where you placed it in order to conceal your activity?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And did you possess that gaffers tape with the knowledge of the Oregon Correctional Authorities?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I saw that Mr. Mondragon had seen me put it there.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Did you possess that tape with the permission of the authorities?




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That was something that you would normally have possession of?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It was part of my -- part of my work station area equipment. Yes.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. All right, sir. We're going to move on from that. I'm not going to get into the whole issue of you selling stuff on Facebook and everything when you were in Oregon. It was allowed there, your attorney gave us a letter, I personally agree if it was allowed there then I don't think it was a rules violation. We may talk about it for other reasons, but I don't consider it a rules violation; okay? In California, it is a rules violation.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: To sell stuff on Facebook and on different websites? Yeah. That's a violation in California.




DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: You got a 115 for it in 1985.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And that's actually --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- what's going to be adjudicated, I suppose, at the --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- next 115. So I mean, I think part of the issue, and I'll just interject to say I've been working with Mr. Beausoleil to try and determine what the parameters of that are. And I imagine that by the time that the hearing occurs it will be resolved as to exactly what the rules are in California and how they might differ from Oregon.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, the rules say that you have to have the approval, and that's -- you have to have the approval of the Warden.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. So do you -- do you have the approval of the Warden to be selling stuff right now?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Not yet, and so I haven't -- I haven't done anything new since I've been here. I have been in communication with the administration about this almost since my arrival. Yeah. And subsequent to that issue in 1985, I obtained approval.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Do you have the letters to the Board?


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Mr. Beausoleil does have, and there's records of this communication with the Deputy Warden here regarding his requesting permission. And I believe he's had a meeting with him in person, as well, prior to this disciplinary.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. Okay. I have a letter, this is to the Deputy Warden. Before I did anything, I -- you can hand this to him. When I got here from Oregon, I didn't have my property immediately. It took several months, you know, I was at Tracy for a couple of months.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, look, stop one second.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Just so I get a timeline. When did you leave? When did you arrive in California? When did you arrive at CMF, Tracy? Just give me the dates, even if they're month, just approximates.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. I arrived in August, I think it was the 18th, at Tracy. I was in Tracy for 2- 1/2 months.







DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So you're a California inmate again as of, you know, physically in California as of August 2015.



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And then, so I was in Ad Seg undergoing the intake process. They kept me --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- in segregation during that time.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. You answered enough the -- just 2015, August 2015. So were you involved in business dealings without approval, essentially, since August of 2015?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Those that had been in place, continued. I did have authorization. The rules in Oregon are very similar to what they are in California. You have to write to the superintendent, or the head of the institution, and say what you intend to do and obtain permission to be able to publish your stuff. I have --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I know you had permission in Oregon, so if that's what you're getting at (inaudible).

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. Yeah. So I, as soon as in that -- if you'll see, look at that letter, after I arrived here in, I think it was late October of last year. And then I was at -- and then, from that point, I didn't have -- still didn't have my property. I received that in, I think, January. I'm pretty sure it was right in the -- after the first of the year. And as soon as I got my property, I wrote to Mr. Cueva (phonetic), which I actually had to find out who to write to. So I wrote to Mr. Cueva, who then you have the letter that I wrote to him. I had a subsequent meeting about it. I showed him everything that I'm doing. I showed him the pictures of, you know, samples of my artwork, my music, listings for, you know, for my albums. I have nine albums out. It's dating from music that I had recorded way back in the sixties, and through my incarceration. And a well-known album that I recorded at Tracy back in the seventies. And so -- and I've been publishing my stuff since for most of 40 years, you know, consistently, and I did run into a problem with not having the Warden's or superintendent's authorization, and I obtained it afterwards. And so Mr. Cueva said that he had turned it over to Mr. Bravo (phonetic), and for some reason it never -- Mr. Bravo met with me several times.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. The bottom line is you don't have permission to this date to be engaged --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- in outside business dealings, so --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm still waiting, I --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Right. But you don't have permission as of today; correct?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. So my question, then, is have you been engaged in outside business dealings?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Well, the things that were on the website that were for sale are still for sale. I haven't taken them down. You know, they went up --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Sales have been made, I assume, since --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Yes. There have.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, why are you doing that if you know that it's a violation of the rules?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: If I have permission from the superintendent to do it, then it's not a violation of the rules. And so I've been, you know, doing what I can to obtain authorization, and I haven't, you know, when I met with Mr. Cueva, if I had any indication from him that he wanted me to stop selling anything in between now and the time I got whatever sort of authorization that I needed, I would have done it immediately. I'm not trying to violate the rules, or to, you know, disregard what I'm supposed to do in any way.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And so these sales, you're getting the money from these sales?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, there's not -- no.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I mean, I know it's getting funneled through other people who are doing your running the business from the outside, but the money, eventually you're getting money for these sales.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, there's very little in the way of profit on this.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I don't care if it's one penny, you're getting something --




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, when you met with staff here at CMF, the managers here at CMF, regarding your desire to obtain permission to proceed as you have to varying degrees for the last 40 years, and did those individuals with whom you met, or did that individual with whom you met, know that the process was ongoing?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And how do you know that?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because I told him. I showed him the website. In fact, I've got copies of it here, I don't know if you want to see them.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: No. I think I've -- some of it has been provided, I believe.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. It's not just a Facebook page, there's an actual website that's, you know, I've been represented with a website for the past -something years. And I have made that, you know, I showed him -- I showed him printouts from the website, I showed him artwork, the actual printed work.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Understood. These websites, I obviously haven't visited any of these websites, we're basing this hearing on the material presented to us, but if an individual wanted to go online right now, and view these websites, and view your products, your art, your music, they could do so; correct?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you mentioned a recording created at Tracy DVI --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- in the seventies. Did recordings from Tracy in the seventies, and obviously CDC, California Correctional System, are those recordings part of an album?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Oh, absolutely, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Are those recordings still available --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- for purchase by members of the public?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. And they were -- the project was approved by the Warden, and, yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: They were concerts, actually; correct? Or a --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, they were -- they were concerts that were done at -- part of a concert was actually wound up -- it was a film soundtrack, and the project was a film soundtrack. And portions of that were actually recorded live, in front of an audience. And then there has been a release of the anthology of all of the recordings that were made that didn't wind up, sort of, you know, a collection of the entire project. So that's been in publication upwards of many years.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And the film project was called what?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It was called Lucifer Rising.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And that has continued to be refined, and adjusted and, at times, sold over time, or is that --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, it has been reissued at various times, remastered. It's been some time since that was released as a complete anthology. But yeah, it has been, you know, reiterated, and refined and, you know, presented very -- represented, in a way.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And the equipment used to do so obviously has changed over time, so --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Understood. All right. Thank you, Commissioner.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Beausoleil, you talked about accepting responsibility, I'm going back now to the murders, or to the murder. And you talked about all those -- how that behavior, and you connected it, how it affected subsequent things that happened, in your words. And I appreciated your statements in regards to how you've affected, parts you played affected a real significant cultural crime, affected a lot of people. I'm wondering, in regards to your, maybe, some of the artworks, some of the pictures, some of the music, how you see that affecting culture, presently -- how you see that affecting culture, presently.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I see it affecting things very positively, actually.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Could you speak to it, please?


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I also, if the Board is interested, I have some samples of artwork that Mr. Beausoleil has created in recent years, so that way you have a sample of what his artwork looks like, if you'd like to.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Can you hand him this?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you for sharing, and some of these were actually works provided the documents attained by CDCR, which this Panel has had access to.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I mean, we'll view these. I think the record makes it abundantly clear that your client is a very talented artist and musician.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I think, also --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Has been successful in a variety of mediums.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And one of the reasons why I wanted to present that, too, is just so that you can see that the artwork, and I'm not trying to answer the question for Mr. Beausoleil, but the artwork is not, you know, related to violence or to --



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I'm going to interrupt things, here. We're still in post-conviction factors.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yeah. I understand.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And Commissioner is going to --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: You're going to get sidetracked.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- resume there, so we'll come back to this.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you for sharing. All right. So, okay.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: May I? Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: But Mr. Grounds has asked me a question, and I --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Let's just move on.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: We'll give it time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But I assure you, we'll come back.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. That's fine. I understand, now. All right.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. Disciplinaries, we're going to move on to self-help. And since your last hearing, I have that you've been involved in AA, some NA, Nonviolent Communication. You were doing a lot of public service, I guess you would call it, in Oregon, as far as making the videos. You were involved, I think when you transferred, you were involved in making a video about children of incarcerated individuals, I guess.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. I mean, I don't think a lack of self-help has really ever been a problem as far as a denial, at least recently. So I'm not overly concerned with that. I know you've been programming over the years as far as your self-help goes. Anything you want to tell me maybe you've learned since your last hearing, or something new as far as self-help related, if there is anything?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know that there is anything necessarily that's new since the last hearing, but I had spent a lot of my -- I had benefitted from, you know, a lot of the self-help programs that I've been involved in. And the Nonviolent Communication in particular, I spent four years in there, and in that program and I found it extremely valuable in learning to self-empathize, and to empathize with others and to hopefully be able to be -- do a better job of hearing what other people are feeling and coming -- and where they're coming from. I continue, of course, with yoga practice, my spiritual -- ongoing spiritual endeavors in my Buddhist tradition, Asian philosophies and studies. Which grounds me, I study Asian spiritual philosophies, and I incorporate them into my life which is an ongoing thing. It's part of a -- and yoga practice is part of that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. Let me kind of zero in, then. Commissioner covered it, I don't want to beat a dead horse with this whole marijuana use, it was mentioned in the Psych though, that maybe you weren't taking it as seriously as the doctor thought you should. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. But just want to, you know, he continues to lack full insight into his treatment needs, particularly related to substance abuse in the community, substance use in the community. That's from the Psych, page 11. You said you would probably maintain going to NA while on parole. The doctor went -- in talking about the substance abuse, talked about that, as well, a little bit. That you, I don't want to use the word minimize, but that maybe you weren't -- hadn't fully addressed your issues with marijuana. So you've been taking NA/AA, I'm going to ask you the most basic question. Do you know your 12 steps?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Pretty much. Yeah.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I don't that I've memorized them specifically in order, or anything. I do know my 12 steps, yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, you were diagnosed with Cannabis Use Disorder --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- in a Controlled Environment. I'm quoting from the Psych on page 9, by your own admission, marijuana has adversely affected your judgement and good sense. Yet, you continued to use -- he continued to use that drug for 38 years. He continues to underestimate the significance of his prior use, as well as the risk for relapse. He said he would probably, again, maintain the 12 steps in the community. He stated he saw the 12 step meetings not as meetings to discuss addiction, per se, but instead a place to meet with some really good people and just talk about issues. He said that much of the success of a 12 step program is related to the composition of the group as opposed to the procedures and tenants of the groups. So there's some concerns, obviously --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- in it from your Psych Evaluation. Have you made any kind of relapse prevention plan?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm not sure how I was so lacking in perceptiveness in regards to the way that the --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, it's a yes or no question, have you made a relapse prevention plan?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- that the psychologist was --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Just answer the question.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Just yes or no, have you made you a relapse prevention plan?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. Is it in your file?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know that if it is or not.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Do you have it with you? I don't remember seeing it, I'll be honest, but there's, like I said, a lot of stuff. So if you have it with you -- no?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, I do intend to be involved in 12 step programs. I am, have been for decades, and continue in the meetings on a regular basis. I value the program very greatly. You know, at this point, my relapse program is to -- is to go into a transitional housing environment that has programs available, and to avail myself of those programs. Listen, I've been locked up for 50 years, half a century. If I were in your position, and I were being - - I were evaluating an individual who had been locked up for 50 years, and he said that he didn't need help, or that he wasn't going to -- he was blasé about whether or not he would avail himself of programs that would be of benefit to him, I don't think I would want to consider him for parole because I think that would be pretty irresponsible of that individual and really not really connecting with where he needs to be. I'm going to need a lot of help. I'm going to need a lot of help and support. NA/AA has been a huge value to me, and not just as a, you know, a bunch of guys getting together. I'm not sure how I gave that impression to the reviewer. I don't know how I -- how I didn't communication effectively in that situation.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, I'm going to -- I mean, I'm honestly a little -- hold on. I'm a little surprised that you've been taking it for a long time, and then when I ask you, do you know your 12 steps? Mostly, that you wouldn't know all your 12 steps like, cold, if you've really been going and taking it seriously. But you still, after all these years --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm not sure I could get them in order, that's --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I don't care about the order. Do you know them all?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Have you worked them all?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. I do work them regularly, I believe in them. They're really, really valuable. And the Serenity Prayer is the most powerful, one of the most power -- with my spiritual tradition, it's a very powerful prayer. It invokes a very -- it invokes a position in an individual that allows him to be conscious of his choices in terms of whatever decision he's faced with, whether it's substance abuse, or whether he's going to do something or whether he's affected by challenges in his -- in his life or with circumstances that he, you know, can't change. You know, those things are extremely valuable. I get a lot of benefit from being with guys who are working on themselves. You know, if -- that's the first place I'm going to turn if I'm starting to have a difficulty in adjusting to the outside, if I'm starting to have concerns, or worries or anxieties about being able to adjust, the first person I'm going to turn to is my sponsor. I may meditate first, but I'm going to turn to my sponsor.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. How do you work step six?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm not sure which one that is, I don't have them in order.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. Step six is the one about your character defects.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: What I'm getting at is, what are your character defects? I'm just going to cut to the chase. What are your character defects?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: As noted earlier, impulsiveness, a little -- some egotism, where I'm thinking that I'm right more than I should, that I'm less sensitive. The need to remind myself that I need to listen to other people and be empathetic to their feelings. I think that, in a nutshell, those are more core --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- character defects that I need to be observant of.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. I would say impulsiveness, definitely, based on that on that 115, with the tape.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. I think you're right.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. So the last area of self-help I want to talk about is kind of - - kind of overlaps the life crime, it's the remorse aspect, the victim's awareness. Have you taken Victim's Awareness, Victim's Impact classes over the years?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. So why don't you tell me -- let's talk about remorse a little bit, then; all right?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So I know you wrote the letter to Mr. Hinman's daughter several years ago, and we -- it's all in your file, I don't need to see it again.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I would interject, actually, just to say that he's recently written another letter that -- especially because at the last hearing was the first time that Ms. Martley had been present, first time that he's -- that Mr. Beausoleil has had the opportunity to interact with someone he knew to be a member of the Hinman family.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Over the past few weeks he's been working on this letter, which I have extra copies for the Board and --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. You can give it to the CO.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I have -- I have the original. Would the Board like to keep the original?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We'll make a photocopy if you want to -- if you need, we can make a photocopy. If not, we'll take what you have.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Do you want to keep the original, or --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No, just -- I just need a copy.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: It's going to get - - I'm am going to make an exhibit, so it's going to --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- get scanned in his file, so --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And I kept copies for us, as well, so --

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Is this the letter that was included in the Ten-Day Packet?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: No. This is -- this is a new one.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: If the Commissioners wouldn't mind emailing me a copy of that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Hold on just a minute, I have the volume turned down here. I'm sorry. Please repeat yourself.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: If the emails wouldn't -- if the Commissioners wouldn't mind emailing me a copy of that, I have not seen that, yet.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Oh, yeah. Ms. Lebowitz is correct. She has not -- we just got the -- he just finished it up this week, so yeah. Ms. Lebowitz has not -- so perhaps we could fax it to her or email it to her.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Yeah. There are -- there are three letters that appear to be updated versions of letters which exist in the file, and I'm certain we can do that. Not at this moment, Ms. Lebowitz, but we will do it at our very next break and there are a total of six pages.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Oh, no. I think -- I'm sorry, Commissioner.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I'm sorry to interrupt, those are just two photocopies of -- the letter is two pages long, and then there are two photocopies of it.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And it's an entirely new letter with --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: This is, then -- the other letter -- okay.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We have a lot of letters from him.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yeah. I understand there's a lot here.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. So Ms. Lebowitz, good news, it's just two pages, but we'll still get it to you at the next break.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And thank you for having multiple copies.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yes. OFFICER HAMILTON: If you want, I can do it. I can do it right now.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Oh, yes. If possible. Officer Hamilton (phonetic) will have it scanned over to you. Same address, the best email address, he's going to scan it and send it on there. Thank you. All right.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So Ms. Lebowitz, Commissioner Mahoney has arranged to have this scanned and sent right away, so it should be coming your way in just a few minutes, here.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. Okay. So you've written a new letter, and let me ask you, and there's no right or wrong answer, I just want your opinion on this, so you've been putting things on Facebook and Amazon, I don't know, wherever else you've been selling stuff. I'm not criticizing you for that. But do you think you're getting more sales because of your notoriety, potentially? Because of what you were connected to?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. No. Can I interject one thing before I answer that question?


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: In regards to the letters that I wrote initially, in 1997, to the family, that's in my records, and then there was a letter to, that you referenced, to Gary's daughter. And that was a couple of years ago, two or three years ago. So I just wanted to interject that.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Now, to answer your question, in regards to whether it's my notoriety that feeds into my being able to sell things, there's a couple of aspects to the answer. There's a couple of facets to it that I want to get back to you, which is --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. I'm going to need to just, before you do that, let me just put everything on the table so you can just have it all. Because here's what I'm thinking, sir, and I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but potentially, I'm looking at your Facebook page, which it was in the Packet, you know, the investigation. I was looking at your fliers for your art shows that you had done in the past. And while it doesn't, on -- well, the art show flier actually does say, this is in the 2000's, though, about your history. And it talks about your conviction, and everything. The Facebook stuff doesn't necessarily say, you know, my name is Bobby Beausoleil, I was involved in a Manson killing, but there is, obviously, comments on it about Manson from other people, even, that are on your page. And there is clear references to it, so it's very obvious that you were involved in that. So I think that could you potentially argue that, or someone could potentially argue that you're profiting off of this person's death, and the circumstances surrounding it.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I understand that.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So that's kind of where my -- that's the entirety of my question, so I'll let you answer that.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. I understand that there might be that perception, but if you really look at what I'm doing, there's a couple of things that are, I think, hopefully mitigation of what you're saying. In my experience, you know, there is no mention of Manson. I don't talk about it, I don't talk about the crime that I'm in for, I do not promote anything that I'm doing on the basis of my association with Manson, the crime or anything of that sort. If anything, the association with Manson is a liability. It doesn't increase interest, or sales or anything related to that. I don't engage in anything that's, you know, pandering to those kinds of interests, and additionally to that, everything that's up there is available for free. That's why I was saying there was basically no profit from this. The music, everyone can hear, play every song, from full length for free. Anyone can look at the art, and see it, enlarge it, zoom in on it for free. If they want to own an art print, or if they want to own, you know, a CD or something like that, then there is an overhead to that and there is a cost associated with it. But my purpose in doing this is not profit to begin with, so I'm not trying to -- it's not a corporate thing. That word corporate I won't do, doesn't look like that. And you know, to me, it's not like that at all. It's my need to connect with people who are able or who have a desire to connect with me on a level that is prosocial, that is pro-human, that is creative, not destructive, life-supporting, on that mode. Because if I don't put myself out there in some other way, all people are going to know before is having committed a murder, association with Manson and so on. I have children out there, I have children and I have grandchildren. I have a family, I have friends, I have people who support me, and love me and care about me. And I feel that I have a responsibility and an obligation, both on a spiritual level, which we can speak to that in terms of, you know, the dharma as the -- one's purpose in life is what that refers to, and having a responsibility to express one's gifts and a responsibility to share them. I don't care anything about the profit, not at all. It's not what this is about. Maybe someday, when I got to support myself in a way that, you know, so I'm not a liability on my family, I'll worry about that. But right now, the only thing that I'm in it for, as far as putting it out there on a website and publishing it is to be able to have a way to connect with people that is -- that defines, you know, defines who I am in a way that is more authentic and accurate than the publicity that's out there. You know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: A couple questions there, Commissioner. First, for verification, I used the corporate earlier.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And I think the context, perhaps, I did not convey accurately. I am aware that you have actually a very nice letter of support which speaks to the potential for future employment from an individual, I don't recall his name, it's one of many letters. And it's on letterhead from a Sony Corporation, or something having to do with a company related to the Sony Corporation and it has to do with work that you've done in, I'm assuming, digital music and that sphere.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I think he was actually talking more about, if I may --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- interject. You're talking Steve Foldvari at Sony, he's the artist relations and product manager.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So that was the context, and --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. It was the programs that I've done internally. The same skills that I used to do stuff that is personal, is the same skills that the Department of Corrections has been using for decades to their benefits. So I mean, it's the same thing. I do make a little bit of a distinction. Okay, this is my personal work, speaks to what's going on inside of me. Other than that, it's still the same kind of stuff.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. That was the context of my comment, and --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- I'll join my colleague in that I have reviewed the transcript of the previous hearing. I reviewed the comments made by one of the previous Panel members. And having prepared for today's hearing, my views relative to your ability to provide for yourself, should you be found suitable today, differs significantly from those expressed by at least one of the previous Panel members. And obviously, my colleague does, as well. That said, if I were to go online, which I haven't done, and go to one of these websites at which your art, or your music or that which you've worked on collaboratively with others, which I understand is what has occurred over time, and I wished to download a digital music file, digital file, free of charge for my own listening pleasure, would I be able to do that?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And if I wished to go to one of these websites, and look at some of the representations of your art, such as those which we have had presented to us by you, today, but also in the material presented to us for today's hearing, we previously had many more than you've just given us. And if I had a very high quality printer, would I be able to print out some of that content?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I believe so. I don't -- I don't know how the printing functions on it. It's handled by -- it's handled by Fine Art America, they --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. And I don't want to get into some of the --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't know how that works for them.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: That's fine. I withdraw that question. But if I wanted to pull that material up on one of your websites, and view that art, right?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: If you want to view it, you can view it all day long. Yeah.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Is there advertising on any of these websites that --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: For other agencies, or other companies or anything like that?



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Is there any income stream to you at all from advertising which might appear on any of these websites --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- of which show your work?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, there's revenue streams in terms of if somebody buys a CD, or something like that but the revenue streams pay for the overhead to make it available for free.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: He asking about advertising.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. But as far as advertising, no. I don't, you know, as far as companies advertising on my website, no. There's none of that.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But just to clarify, you do, and you said earlier, you do make income from the sales. It may not be a lot, but you do make income from the sales.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: There is -- there are sales, and it -- personally, I designated it for my family, that my intention here -- I'm, you know, look, I'm almost 70. I'm not going to be around that much longer, and I want to leave something to my kids.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But it gets put on your books, as well.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I have not had any money coming in from my business going to my books.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I've had -- well, I've had money sent to me, but they're from patrons, people who just want to help because they believe in what I'm doing, not because somebody's buying. I don't make enough money to do that. It goes to pay the overhead to make it available, and that's -- it barely does that. So I don't -- if one, you know, once in a while there will be a license from a movie-maker, or something, wants to use a piece of my music in a movie, and there's a little bit of a windfall. When that happened, the last time that happened, I sent money to my daughter to help support my wife's estate, she left a home. And so I'm trying to help in the -- in the will that I have drawn up, that I have created for -- the living will that I have created for my family, 40 percent is to go to the support of my wife's home, to make -- keep the -- because she wanted to leave that to her kids.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But the -- hold on, now.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: So I want to make sure that - - and then --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But the money goes to you. You can disperse it however you want.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It does not come to me, no. It goes to a trust account for my family. I don't -- I don't need it. I don't need it. There are people who help me to the extent that I need stuff in here. You know, I don't really need it, I don't care about that. If I could do -- if I could make the infrastructure available for free, without any costs, if it didn't cost anything to make it available for free, I would just do it for free. If I could put CDs out that didn't cost any money, I would just put them out there and let people have them. Because it's not -- it's not about that for me, it's not -- it's not about that. You asked me a question, Mr. Mahoney.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: You're still burning CDs? I know.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You asked me a question, I mean, some of it is downloadable, you can actually download them, put it on your IPad and all that. There's some, you know, there's ways to do that for free on some of the things like I did a meditation CD, and I wanted to make that available.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. I'm good. Thank you.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: May I? This is very short, but this is actually on the website, and I don't know how to do it any better than this. You're saying, you know, when you put it out there, you asked me the question, you said when you're putting it out there, you know, is this something where you're, you know, you're profiting from your crime. Does it, you know, is this something that panders to that, that is being promoted on the basis of, you know, criminal activity or any of that? And I have addressed that in this little introduction.



DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: It's that it makes remorse seem disingenuous if you are, indeed, profiting from your notoriety.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We can look at it, how long is this?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's right here.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: This is on the -- this is the greeting page on the website, it's the about page, it says okay. Greetings, and welcome to my headquarters on the wild wide web. This website exists by Grace and the efforts of stalwart friends and family through whose support I am able to maintain a bridge connecting me, while I remain imprisoned as a ward of the state, to the world at large. I am grateful for this opportunity to share with you some of the fruits of what talents and skills I have been personally endowed with, and some of the histories and philosophies surrounding them. If you happen to be among those persons who may visit this site looking to gratify some curiosity regarding unfortunate associations that haunt my past, I'm sorry but you will have to look elsewhere. There are more than enough, too many, in parenthesis, elsewhere to turn to for that sort of thing. In other venues I have been forthcoming about those aspects of my life. This website, however, exists only for the purpose of showcasing my music and sound design, and sharing my visual art, as well as some of my videos and writings related to these modes of expression. Please appreciate my work, or not, solely on the basis of its merits as art. By doing -- by doing this you are likely to learn more about the truth of who I am if that is of interest to you, than in any other way. Here you can view all of my paintings and drawings, and listen to all of my albums, every track full length, for free. Of course if you want to own any of it you'll have to pay a little extra to cover the costs associated with making it available, but a stupefying array of options is just a click away from where you are now. So it basically says (inaudible). So that's the best I can do --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, I think --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: You answered our questions.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: The last thing, I want to -- I want to do this quick. One last issue I want to talk about, and I don't know if it's super relevant, it's old. What was up with the pictures that you were painting of the spankings and the one with people engaging in sexual acts?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I was doing some cartoon-like illustrations for a publication that my wife was putting out about erotic fantasies of adults. And so that's what that was. And I was foolish to have done that because I opened myself up for perceptions that could be used against me, and have been. And so I'm embarrassed that I was that foolhardy, that I thought that just doing something quietly would not, you know, become --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, it wasn't quietly, they were for sale.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, she was selling them. Yes. She was selling magazines. Yeah. Yeah, it was --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. That's not that quiet, sir. You're putting it --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- in a magazine to sell.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't putting it out to the mainstream, and it was, you know, I'm not going to -- I wouldn't -- I'm embarrassed that I -- that I was engaged in that, but I'm not ashamed. I didn't do anything that was so, you know, it might have been titillating, but it wasn't, you know, pornographic.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, I can tell you this, if that were -- if someone in California prison possessed that, that would be a 115 for possessing pornography. And if you possessed that in California, that would probably be a 115 for pornography.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That may be now, at that time it wasn't.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, you weren't in California, you were in Oregon.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No, I -- no. No, I actually I didn't do that in Oregon.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Oh, that was done here?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. That was done here, back in the early eighties.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But it was sold in the 2000's?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Oh, okay. Then it was dated wrong. All right.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You mentioned, I think maybe I need to address this, because I'm -- you mentioned a gallery show.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And that was in 2000, so maybe that was what you're --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah, 2005. And I made a -- I had no idea at the time that I had done it, I thought that the person who had set the show up had properly vetted the gallery owner. I didn't see it coming. While my show, itself, I think was fine. It was, you've seen the art, the types of art that were displayed there. You know, there wasn't anything obscene, or any -- it was just my straightforward art, the same as what's on my gallery now.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So the erotic pictures were not part of that 2005 show?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: There were a few represented, yes.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: There were a few, and it was very lighthearted type of, you know, nothing overtly pornographic. No. And in no sense --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I would disagree with that, sir. I saw that pictures. They looked pretty, the ones I saw, looked overtly pornographic, so I --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I think some of these are being conflated with the erotic art versus some of the stuff that was presented in the magazines which his wife had done, which is all the spanking and stuff that you alluded to.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. There are ones with floating -- I don't want to get too graphic, but there are floating penises, there were --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Yeah. There was a cartoon that --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- people engaged in oral sex. Was that the 2005 show?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I believe so, yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. Okay. That's what I was referring to.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: There were one or two spankings there. There was a cupid being --




DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. We can move on, unless you guys have --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Just so we can place this in perspective, I -- that was ill-advised, Mr. Beausoleil.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, it was really ill advised because what happened in the middle of the show is that he was promoting, and I, Ms. Tate is on the phone, and I know I can't speak to her directly, but I was --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- extremely embarrassed, and I felt really badly for the way that I was exploited in that situation by the gallery owner. He promoted a subsequent show that was going to be showing photographs, and I don't know what, starlet photographs.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Artists of various kinds have been exploited by gallery owners as long as there have been artists and galleries owners. And the same applies today in all modes of art.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I'll never put myself in that position again.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: My question is, when were these paintings, or these renderings, which I also have viewed and which, frankly, left me scratching my head. When were those created?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Probably about 1982.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think. Around that. Around that, 1892.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And do you own the rights, or the originals or the ability to control those?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, those are -- those are long gone. I don't have no --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, no. They're not, I just saw them on --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I'm talking about the originals. You asked if the originals --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But the originals are long gone?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think so. I don't know where they are. My family doesn't have them.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And do you have any means of controlling distribution of those items now? Are there duplicates of those items?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I haven't heard of anything, but no. I have means of not putting them up there on my website.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But do you have means of controlling them?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. As long as it's not out, something in the public domain, I don't know of any that are in the public domain. There might be, I don't know.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. Well, that wasn't the answer to the question --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: There are things that I don't -- that got -- that got out from years ago, that -- yeah.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't have control over.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So in essence, today, where we sit today, unfortunately for you, perhaps, given your statements to me, sitting across the table, suggest that you regret what you did back then and what you and your wife did collectively.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: It's one of the many things that people have regretted after the internet.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I understand that, but these are akin to the selfies that a --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- a junior high school student might take, and then might led to regret the next day at school. All right.



DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We're going to move on, sir. We're going to -- unless you have something I haven't covered, we're going to go on to parole plans. Anything I've missed as far as programming that you want on the record?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think we've --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: No? All right. I'm going to be honest, sir, we're going to go through parole plans really quick, here. You have a lot of letters, Commissioner mentioned that we -- I'm okay with your, I'm going to say it right now, I'm okay with your parole plans. You have a lot of support, you have marketable skills, you have I believe job offers, as well. We're going to get one or two on the record, and we're going to move on; okay? Because your parole plans are not an issue.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: So you want Francisco Homes, is that -- is that accurate, still?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It would be a -- there's another, I've also applied for GEO, what is it, GEO?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: GEO Care in San Francisco.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: GEO Care in San Francisco, which is another half-way house.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. What is your first choice?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My first choice would be Northern California if possible, but I -- actually, I'm going to rephrase that. My first choice is going to be wherever the Parole Authorities want me to be. That's going to be my first choice.



ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- add to that, I did speak, because we hadn't gotten any response from GEO Care after he spoke the letter, I spoke to someone named Jason Carpenter (phonetic) there the day before, two days before -- two days ago. And he said that he believes there would be no problem. I explained everything, told him there was a letter from --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We deal with them all the time. We're --



ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I just want to let you know that --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I just want to be in a place where I have the kind of support, I mean, you know, I'm getting out after 50 years, if assuming I ever get out, you know, if I get that grace.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: All right. So just for record, real quick. I've got Francisco Homes from September 12th, 2016. Sister Teresa is offering you a bed. Thanks to your attorney, he made it handy, I have a list of, how many people here, one, two, three, four five, six, seven, eight -- 25 or so support letters, and he summarizes them all. Commissioner mentioned on the record, you could go live in Costa Mesa with your step son is an option. These letters are all in the file, we don't need to go over them, they're part of the record, so --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My long, you know, my -- subsequent to a half-way house, and getting my feet on the ground and getting stable within the kind of support that I would need, I want to live at my home in, you know, my home in Oregon, in Salem that my wife made for us. That's where her ashes are. I mean, some day I'm going to be there, regardless. At least my ashes will be there with hers at some point.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I understand. All right. Commissioner mentioned the Sony letter. Anything specific you want me to put on the record before, real quick, before I move on?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I think only that my intention, I'm still able to do the kind of work that I've been doing in terms of videography, multimedia and so on. My son has, there's a letter that's stating that he would provide the computer, I already have from Sony a full production suite of software that could go on that. So I could basically hit the ground running and doing production work of the sort that I've been doing. And so, I mean, to the extent that I am able to continue doing that type of work, and I think I've got a number of years left in me to do it, that's what I would be doing as an occupation. That would be my focus.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. And just for the record, real fast. Evan Freeman (phonetic), is that his name, Evan?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Evan Freeman, yes.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Evan Freeman, that's from September 26th, and he's offering you the place in Costa Mesa --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Which is your alternative. Who's offering you the equipment?


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: He is, as well? All right.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Since we're talking about his family, just so the Board gets an image of the people he is -- these are the children and grandchildren of Bobby's late wife, Barbara.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. And for the record, that letter, I will provide computer equipment. Did you have any concrete job offers? I know you have marketable skills.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. There's -- yeah. There was several people who said that they would purchase work if I'm doing freelance.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: But you know, my brother has always offered me a job right off, you know, he has a construction business, and I'm not sure how much --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He is Daniel Beausoleil, Daniel and Claudia Beausoleil. They have, you know --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: This letter is page 88 and 89 in the original memorandum, the exhibits.




INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And Tyler Davis has said that he would, you know, put me to work doing things for him, production work.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Thank you. All right. I got a copy of it right here. Daniel Charles Beausoleil, this is January 2015, and when he's released, we'll support him in any way we can. We've offered him free housing and a job in the excavation -- oh, this is in Oregon, though.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Okay. Well, you'd have to wait until you get there, anyway. But he is offering you housing, and a job in the excavation business up there. All right. All right. If you don't have anything else, we're going to move on then to the Psych Report.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I have a couple of quick questions.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. I meant to - - yeah.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: With respect to your plans for parole. Your step-son, Evan, what does he do for a living?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He is a computer, he is, excuse me, he is a software developer for a company, he's a pretty high end guy. He's very proficient in, you know, designing high end software for businesses.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He lives alone, he's a bachelor.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And are you -- will you have enough quarters in, will you be eligible for Social Security?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Ms. Teresa Groth, Sister Groth, has said that they -- part of their program, and I'm sure the GEO Care program also, has assistance for getting on SSI. I don't want to sacrifice being able to support myself on my work if possible, but I do have that to fall back on.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I understand. All right. In eventuality, perhaps.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The house in Oregon was owned by you and your wife, or your wife?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. Well, it's in her name. It's in her name, I don't -- the title is not on my -- in my name, but it is considered my home by the family and it's currently in her daughter's name. She has written a letter.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. Two letters. And so yeah, so but, you know, I contributed to the design of the place. It was actually built on --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I read that, as well. So in your mind, you would be, regardless of who holds title to that house, you would be welcomed there and it is regarded as your home.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, yes. Absolutely.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And I -- and I do have the 12 step program for Salem, I do have the address for that.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And I've also spoken to all of the family members who have confirmed that to me, because some of these letters were a little old, I went ahead an spoke to everyone to confirm.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And I've read the letters from family members in Oregon, and I understand that recent challenges that you have faced relative to the relocations and their views in that regard, as well. It seems abundantly clear to me that they would supportive of your return to that state. All right. Thank you, Commissioner. I'm sorry, but we are going to be taking another break in the next few minutes. I'll leave it to you as to when the logical time for that is, Commissioner.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Well, why don't we do -- I'm done with post-conviction. Why don't we -- any other questions before we move on to clarifying questions? And then we can take a break.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Why don't we do that, now? We'll take a break, then. The time is 1:55.

(Off the record)

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We're back on the record.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The time is 2:15. Commissioner?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I think we're open to questions, now. I don't have anything else as far as programming goes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, I have a few questions for you. I suspect my colleagues may, as well. After which, we will move to clarifying questions from the DA, Ms. Lebowitz and Mr. Campbell.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: I don't believe Debra's on -- Tate is on.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: She was here a minute ago. Ms. Tate, are you with us? Ms. Tate?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, ma'am. We'll check.


MS. TATE: I'm back.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't have them.

MS. TATE: Ms. Tate is back.



MS. TATE: Thank you.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I'm sorry, we were talking.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, there have been any number of versions of the commitment offense that in past years you provided.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: In a variety of settings. Yeah. Obviously, it's not uncommon for individuals who have committed serious crimes to lie about them, and you're no exception. And for you, it seems, coming to what appears to be a reasonable rendition of the commitment offense has been a process rather than an event. And why? What was it about yourself that caused it to be so difficult for you to tell the truth about this murder?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think because I was so ashamed of what I had done, you know, I had never done a -- committed a violent act against anyone in my life and I didn't, when it happened, really think that I was capable of killing anyone. And I was so shattered and devastated by it that I just -- I started down a road of making excuses and trying to first, like in a very childish way in retrospect.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Do you believe it is possible for someone who has committed a murder, and who lies about having that murder, to, while they are still lying about it, experience true remorse for the murder?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I do believe that's true. Yes. Yes, I believe --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Is it possible for someone to be truly remorseful at the same time that they're lying?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't believe that it's possible to be fully remorseful when somebody is lying. I don't think that's possible.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Do you believe that you experience remorse for this murder, today?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And this Panel has just met you, and obviously there's a great deal of material to review, and certainly we're reviewed the letters that you've written over time, carefully written letters. And I mean that in a good way, carefully written letters. Some of them, frankly, accepting more responsibility, and in different ways than others but carefully written. Other than those letters, how would you suggest that this Panel might be able to see that you do truly experience remorse today for having murdered Mr. Hinman?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I think in the questions that you've been asking, I think I've been indicating that pretty strongly. But I would like, you know, I've got this letter right in front of me, and that I wrote this past week, and this is the first opportunity that I've been effectively sort of in the same room as a member of Gary's family. I've never had that opportunity before to actually speak, I know I can't speak directly to her, but I --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: No. And I think I know where you're going, and there may be time for that. And in any event, I am certain that regardless of how it is conveyed today, and regardless of the outcome of today's hearing, that Ms. Lebowitz will ensure that that letter arrives in Ms. Martley's possession if she wants that to happen. But what would you point at, in your life, what would you point to in your life, Mr. Beausoleil, that you believe would display to this Panel that you are truly remorseful for this murder?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, frankly, I don't know that there is any aspect of my life that in some way doesn't express that in some way. Maybe not directly, but indirectly, being an expression of my sense of responsibility to the life I took. You know, we talk about, you know, the work that I've done, and that is tied in very directly with my sense of responsibility to Gary and to his -- you know, I'm a Buddhist; all right? Gary was just getting into Buddhism when I killed him. And at that time, I, and I express this in my writing, at the time, I kind of thought that was -- thought it was, I don't know, superstitious, I thought it was, you know, I thought it was kind of weak seeming, you know. And now I've come to see that as a very courageous thing that he was doing. And realizing my common humanity with him, realizing that I, in everything that I do, I owe him for what I deprived of the world of him. You follow me? It's just -- it's in terms of what I was talking about, in the Buddhist tradition there is, or Hindu and Buddhist traditions, Asian traditions, there's called -- there's a thing called dharma. And dharma speaks to one's responsibility to find within themselves the gifts that they came to the world to express, and then to express those gifts and to share them with humanity, with the world. And I deprived the world of those gifts that Gary would have brought in his lifetime. So I have had to double-down in what I've -- in what I'm doing. And so a lot of what I say, a lot of what I do, a lot of what I express in the work itself comes from that sense of connectedness with him.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He informs my life.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And when you refer to what you have done, are you referring to your music, are you referring or you're referring to the video productions and so forth that you've done for the correctional system and the state of Oregon?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: All of that. All of that comes under that heading because it's all linked to that -- to that need to make amends through the what ways I can, for what I took from the world. You know, he did nothing to deserve what I did for him, what I did to him. He did nothing to deserve to die, to be murdered the way I murdered him.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: The way I killed him.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And obviously, that would be difficult to disagree with. There's irony that's not lost on this Panel that some aspects of the behavior which resulted in the 115 which you current face is consistent with behavior, and activities and involvements that you've had for decades before you came to prison. I mean, there's irony there that an individual who would be a musician, and who would be recognized by the correctional system in California as such and given an opportunity to ply his trade for mutual benefit. And then do similar things in the state of Oregon for decades, and then return to California suddenly and be in a position where all that may need to come to a grinding halt. I don't know that it will, I don't know what the outcome will be. That's certainly not in this Panel's purview. But I am curious, should you be directed by institution staff, by CDCR to cease and desist, to cease your involvement with your commercial enterprises, what's the plan? I'm sure you've talked to somebody about this.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, yes. I have.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, I'll follow the rules. I will follow the rules. I've always followed, I mean, up there, you know, I mean, I haven't always followed the rules but I haven't made the same mistake twice in regards to any of this. So there was one instance where I didn't have an authorization, but I've had authorizations ever since. I am assuming that there is at least the possibility that the administration will authorize me to be able to make my work -- continue to make my work available in the way that I have. I mean, that was the indication that I had when I met with Mr. Cueva. If he had said look, you know, until we get something resolved, you can't do this, I would have abided by his wishes. But I didn't get that sense at all. What he communicated to me was okay, you want something from me, well, I want something from you. I want you to get involved in programs where these younger guys that are -- that are having, you know, a hard time adjusting in here, and are still caught up in gangs where you can show them different ways of expressing themselves. So that he asked for something in return. The indication to me was he didn't have a problem with what I was doing, and I know other inmates in here who publish. You know, there is -- there is publishing, and publishing is, according to the rules, you know, a right that a person has to sell and convey their work --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And I would note, the Panel has reviewed, among other memorandums, those dated from May 15th, 1989, and September 8th, 1989 which, while not directly speaking to this issue, do speak peripherally to issues concerning you having been granted permission to pursue your --



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And if they tell me, so in answer to your question, if it comes to a grinding halt, and that's what'll, you know, I'll have to figure out a way to publish without making money, I guess. You know, that would be the fallback position, to figure out some way to be able to continue to meet my responsibility with respect to sharing what I'm here to share to the world.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. All right. That --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Without violating the rule. I will do that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Understood. All right. Now, and I did review the letter, that we returned the original back to you that is dated from February of this year which clearly seems to be an effort on your part to seek direction and express, clearly expresses an interest in complying with institution regulations in that regard. So the Panel obviously has concern about the extent to which inadvertently, or deliberately, anybody associated with you might seek to benefit from the notoriety of not only your case, but cases related to it. And the material that I have reviewed from your websites, I presume, certainly seems consistent with how you represented it to me. I've seen probably a small part of it, but this world is full of people who are misguided, who are ill, or who are criminally minded. And you make gentle reference to those segments of the population in the opening to your website, which you read --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- some time ago. Do the individuals maintaining your web profile, and your presence and the enterprise that you have out there have standing instructions or a modus operandi --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- for dealing with those categories of the population who might reach out?



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, okay, first of all, now the Facebook page is a fan-page. That's what it was -- it was established by someone before I even knew about it. It was just for people who were interested in my work. Well, I since was in touch with the person who established that page, and she made it very clear that shew as going to kick off anybody who brought that sort of, you know, the exploitation. Any aspect of exploitation, anything that comes on it, she'll boot them off. So people cannot post to that and have it be left there in such a way whether insinuating things in relation to crime, or supporting my work or comment. And I really don't -- it's surprising I don't have more of that.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I mean, you know, the -- I got to tell you, you may imagine that people are really focused on the Manson thing when they -- I get -- you know, I get emails from people. People can write to the website, and I get them forwarded, and it comes in the mail and so I'm able to see what people are saying. And I would say at least 99 percent of the people are just extremely supportive, are inspired by the work --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- and they're not interested --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What about the website, itself?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What about your website, itself, in terms of --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's handled by someone who, with very strict instructions, to not allow, to not exploit and not allow anybody else to exploit.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: So what happens with email or postings that might appear that these people who deem exploitive, or you might deem exploitive.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, they're reviewed first, before they're even -- there's nobody -- nobody can just put stuff up there. They can on the Facebook, but then it's monitored whenever that happens. Anything inappropriate is taken off.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Same thing with before anything in posted to the website, this is not something that the public can -- that the public can just put stuff on.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And why do you view that as appropriate to be so restrictive?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because I have a responsibility not only to make the work available, but I have a responsibility to make the work available in a way that does not victimize anyone.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yes. Just one thing, it's more of a comment than a question, sir, but you -- the Commissioner just asked you, what would you do if you were told you couldn't continue to sell your music, and you said you would -- that you would follow the rules and you would stop. But I mean, by the letter of the rules, sir, you're not following the rules right now. Once you came to California, in August of 2015, the sales were supposed to stop until permission was given to you by the California Department of Corrections, and whoever that may be. That permission was not granted, it's still in the works, so I mean, maybe we decide in deliberations that we're okay with that, but by the letter of the rule you are violating the rules, sir.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I can understand that interpretation, my interpretation is a little bit different because the rule that I'm following when I -- when I publish my work is the rule that's in the rule book relating to manuscripts and publishing. Which says that I have the right to sell and convey. So I understand that at the same time, that there is a need to get a clearance from the superintendent, and I, from the very -- from the very beginning, from the first opportunity I had to share what I was doing with the administration, I've done that. And --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And they have -- just for the record --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Title 15, Section 3024, business dealings, Section A. Inmates shall not engage actively in a business or profession except as authorized by the institutional head. You weren't authorized yet, sir. I mean, there's not interpretation, it's black and white.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I mean, it seems like, you know, one of the issues that was raised initially was we didn't want to litigate that particular disciplinary event.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I don't care about the disciplinary, he told me he's selling stuff.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Well, and I'm not trying to deny that interpretation, I'm just wondering if the, you know, that disciplinary is still pending. The, I mean, there's also a code, you know, a code Section 2600 and 2601 that authorize the inmates to sell and convey property, including artwork. So unless there's a penological interest that the government cites to restrict them, at this point I don't, you know, I don't think there's been any penological interest that's been promulgated that supports, you know, 3024 either as applied to Mr. Beausoleil or in general. But I understand that's something that's going to be dealt with, and you know, and I think Mr. Beausoleil indicated he is perfectly willing to comply with whatever the Board and CDCR ultimately decide. But I mean, your point's well taken.



DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: And just to further that point, a disciplinary, to me, is it's not the disciplinary, it's the behavior behind the disciplinary. If he is telling I'm selling stuff, I don't really care that there's a pending disciplinary. He's admitted to me he's selling stuff, and then I have to decide, is that an issue to me because it's --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Well, I would -- I would also just, you know, this is one of the issues that I raised in the letter that I wrote. I mean, I think his being brought back to California was under false pretenses to begin with. I mean, he wasn't violating 3024 as with the conclusion of the --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Yeah. Well, that's -- we're not dealing with that. (Inaudible.)

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Well, I understand, but I mean, that was basically a deprivation of his interest without --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: His Suitability Hearing today --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- due process, I mean --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- it's irrelevant today.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: We cannot control that, we have nothing to do with that. This is to decide if he's suitable for parole, and that's where we're going to focus on. The business dealings is relevant because if he's breaking the rules in California prison, that's relevant to us as far as, is he a potential risk? So --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: All I could say in response to that, I mean, I made as quickly as I could possibly do so, communicate -- I communicated with the administration, the Warden's Office, in relation to this. And I will follow any --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- and I asked him immediately for their instructions, you know, how do you want me to do this? Here's my dilemma, okay, so let's say somebody publishes a book, and they do the book in a completely authorized way. And they publish the book, and the publisher puts out so many copies, and it's in all the bookstore and so it's being distributed. And then suddenly, the person who published that book, who is in prison, gets transferred to a new facility where he's got to get a new authorization in order for that to happen. How do you take those books off the shelf? I mean, it's really hard to do -- to unpublish once you've published with authorization. So I mean, once you --

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: That's not the issue. Sir, I know, but I think you're --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: So I asked for instruction first. I asked for instruction.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I know you did, sir. But the --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- bottom line, and I'm -- it might, you know what, we're going to deliberate, and we're going to evaluate this and come to a decision. But the bottom line is you've been here now for over a year, you don't yet have permission to sell and you're continuing to sell.



COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Beausoleil, back to that question.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I haven't forgotten it.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: And I want to dial it in because you impacted culture in an extremely negative way.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: You remember the question? My questions as far as your behavior and how you had disclosed how you admitted to murdering Mr. Hinman.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: And how those actions furthered other actions that followed, as far as murders were concerned.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, I see what you're -- yeah. I didn't hear that part of the question, earlier.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Well, I was listening to you talk.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: I'm not putting words in your mouth.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: I just saw you make the connection between your behavior and something that extremely negatively affected culture in our country. Now, I'm listening, and I've listened to you talk and you say that you bear that in mind as far as Gary Hinman is concerned. And that it motivates you in what you're currently doing, the direction you're currently going. Gary Hinman doesn't have that ability to be creative. Where is the nexus for you with Gary Hinman, and how you're affecting society, today? Not just producing, but where is the nexus in what you're putting out there for the culture that is restitution oriented?


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Talk to me about that.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. I mentioned earlier that I had reviewed my file yesterday, and I was shocked to see where I was when I first was incarcerated. I was really -- I was extremely warped. You know, I was still repeating the same behaviors that I had been involved in prior to the incident crime of, you know, of killing Gary Hinman, of that whole incident, of what led up to that, still trying to prove myself to people, still trying to demonstrate what a tough guy I am and putting on all that bravado and all that. And contributing to this culture of violence, and criminal thinking and I'm seeing this, and I'm just startled by how really childish. It was a lot of this was just really childish, you know, make-believe nonsense that was in my head. But I got involved in an incident at San Quentin, and was very severely injured in that incident. And you know, and this was something I had been flirting with gangs. I never joined a gang, by the way, but I did get involved with people who were engaged in gangs, and I was flirting with them and flirting with that lifestyle. I was scared, so I was trying to fit in with some tougher guys.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. And that was, you know, and at one point somebody thought I was a member of that. It was publicized that it was an in-house power struggle, which it wasn't. It was actually a fight against -- by people who were not AB, and were trying to defend themselves and the AB. So in that situation, so now I'm on hit list with these guys, okay. I'm terrified, and but something happened at that point where I'm mending and I realize that I had nothing to prove to anyone but myself. The only person I needed to prove anything to was myself. The only person whose integrity I needed approval for was myself. You know, I realize that if I kept going down the road that I had been going down, I would be either dead, or so buried in the system I'd never see daylight. And I put the brakes on. You know, I had -- I just woke up. It took me about a year from that time to fully extricate myself, and you know, it's almost impossible to do in prison, to completely extricate yourself from those kind of criminal elements that will take you down that sort of dead end of violence and, you know, continue to perpetuate this horror on people. You know, this, you know, people get caught up in gangs and things in here, and they do things to other inmates, and they don't consider, at all, that person's mother, or brothers and sisters. They don't consider it. It just, you know, and so I just, I put the brakes on and I made a vow that I would never in my life harm another human, initiate an action that would bring harm, physical harm, to another human being. And that I would replace that, replace those destructive tendencies that I had been engaging in for five, six years, or whatever it had been by that time, this around 1974, '75, end of 1974, I think. And I made a vow that I would never again harm another human being, and that I would put all of my energy into life supporting, life-giving activities. And this was very simplistic, very childish in a way. You know, it's like I think back what that was like, that decision was like, I remember the Frankenstein movie where the Frankenstein spoke for the first time, and he was living with an old man. I think that monster says, fire, bad. You know, friend, good. You know, that was the -- it was that kind of a decision. Violence, bad. Creativity, good. So in the evolution of my spiritual growth, and this was, you know, art by its nature, music and writing, writing especially, that's something we don't talk about but I do quite a bit of writing. All forms of art are introspective by nature. So you go inside, you're going inside to bring things out. And a lot of discoveries are made that way, at least that has been the case for me. It's not just making pictures that people like, or people want to buy or any of that. It's not about that. It's about connecting to one's inner-spirituality, inner-fabric, inner-consciousness, and bringing that out and sharing it. That's what it's really about. And it's my work has gotten, over the years, more and more spiritual. And as I became aware of the rich traditions and spiritual philosophy, not just in Asian but in all the spiritual philosophies, in Christianity, in Islam, in Muslim, in a Muslim culture, in Judaism, and in Hinduism, and Buddhism and especially that resonated most with me. There is reinforcement for what this kind of expression is, and there is a thing called ahimsa, and that's a Sanskrit term that is -- refers to the yoga of nonviolence. It's the vowel of nonviolence. And I didn't know that that's what I was doing.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: My nexus was connecting -- was realizing that if I was going to repay a debt, I had to use the gifts that God gave me to do it. Somehow incorporate that into the process of honoring that which Gary Hinman was. I mean, I deprived the world of -- I don't know, none of us can know what gifts he brought, you know -- you know, had he lived. He may have brought, you know, I don't know, the cure to cancer. Who knows? There's just no -- there's no way of knowing. But I feel like I have a debt to make up for in that respect.

COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Thank you. In working that out, realize that that goes to the smallest detail.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Including tape on a door in a prison.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Because that can lead to all kinds of things in a prison setting. You may not have thought, you meant it for this, but I can tell you story after story. And not getting sucked up into something like that is extremely important. If you're going to line your actions up with a philosophy, it has to play out in the ground level, with your feet on the ground, with every action you choose.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more, sir.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, the thing I -- I don't, if you look at my history, I don't make the same mistake twice, generally speaking. I smoked marijuana more than once, and got busted for it, but other than that I made a mistake, made a correction.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: That's it from me.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Lebowitz, clarifying questions for the Panel?

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Yes. Could the Panel please ask the inmate if shooting someone in a drug deal is consistent with Buddhism?


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: No. No. That's to the Commissioner.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, we appreciate your willingness to respond, but please --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm sorry. Yes. I realize that.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Could the Panel please ask the inmate why he brought the two girls with him to collect on this so-called drug deal?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, why were the two women with you that day?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: They had asked to come along for the ride, and I think they may have been put up to it, I'm not sure. I don't -- I don't know why I took them with me because they weren't -- they weren't contributing to anything that I was trying to do or in any way, at least in my mind, supporting anything that I had intended. I really --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Was your relationship with those two women cordial?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah. It was cordial. Friendly, but not intimate.


DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Did you have a plan with either of the two women to notify you if Mr. Hinman was alive or not? I mean, if Mr. Hinman was alone or not?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I'm going to object for the reason I said before. I mean, I think we've covered the commitment offense both at this hearing and, you know, prior hearings at great detail. And I think these are details that have already been covered more or less the entire time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Yeah. I'm not sure to what extent this question would be helpful to the Panel, today, Ms. Lebowitz. But Mr. Hinman, was there -- was there prior planning concerning what you intended to do when you arrived at Mr. Hinman's house between you and these two women?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. There wasn't. I told them that I was going to collect money from Gary.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Can the Panel please ask the inmate why he believes that his version is the only version that's inconsistent with the statement of facts from the Appellate Decision?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, Ms. Lebowitz, I'm quite certain that while that would be interesting to pursue, it would not be helpful for our purposes, today. There are so many versions that have been provided so many times over so many years concerning the mechanics of this murder, which occurred nearly 50 years ago that, again, while interesting, I don't believe that it would be helpful for us today to pursue that.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Okay. Well, could the Panel please ask why the inmate wrote political piggy on the wall in Mr. Hinman's blood?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Again, I raise the same objection.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: No response needed. No response needed. The Panel is just thinking right now.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, I've read your responses, including the most recent ones regarding this issue concerning what you remembered and what you didn't remember at the time. If you -- if you recall, and you're under no obligation to respond to this question, obviously, but if you recall, who wrote political piggy on the wall?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't recall who it was, exactly. Everything that happened after my killing Gary, immediately after, is I was just so devastated by what --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- I had done. I just, I can't remember everything.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I've read your previous statements. So I'm curious though, now that this has come up, and I don't know how curious I am but I'm a little curious. With everything that you know about the associations that you had at that time, why would political piggy be something that someone present, and there were, at that point, at least three of you present, possibly more, why would that be written on the wall with everything that you know, today?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't -- I must say, to my shame I was trying to deflect the idea that it had been -- deflect the attention away from myself in this lame attempt to cover up my tracks by making it seem like it might have been a Black Panther who had done it, who had killed Gary because of his political affiliations or his political philosophies. He was a political science major, and had leanings in a leftist, which I never made a judgement about, but -- personally. But you know, it was in an attempt to deflect, trying to make it look like it was somebody else.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Okay. So that might be a reason why someone, yourself, or one of the other parties present might have put that on the wall.



DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Could the Panel please ask the inmate if he has ever donated any money that he's made from the sale of his art or music to the Hinman family?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, have you ever made any donations to the Hinman family?


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And sometimes inmates do things of that nature, sometimes inmates will, perhaps in an expression of remorse or regret, make donations toward organizations which they know a victim might approve of. There are various ways that people proceed. We acknowledge that you indicate that you have given away your creative efforts, but why have you never made any offer to the Hinman family?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Because I haven't been in touch with any members of the Hinman family over all these years, until this hearing with Kay Martley's presence over the phone.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: But you've written letters before.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I have written letters, but I didn't have, and I never -- and the one I wrote in '97, I never received a -- I never received a reply, and don't know if it was actually received for sure. The one that I sent to his daughter, who I assume was his daughter, I don't know for sure, there was no indication of any desire to try to receive compensation in that respect. She was just grateful that I was honest with her. So it's not something that I -- no one's ever asked me, I haven't had an opportunity. It may have been completely different had I -- had I had an opportunity to give something to the Hinman family.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, that can be a sticky wicket, I'll acknowledge. It's interesting, though. Ms. Lebowitz?

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Could the Panel please ask if the inmate has ever donated to music schools in Mr. Hinman's name.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: You don't have to answer --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm sorry I did that again. I'm sorry.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: It happens. Thank you. The answer was no.


DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Does the inmate still market the album, Lucifer Rising?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I believe -- I believe his responses were in the affirmative, and information available to this Panel via the investigation which was conducted and other material, which I think was either in the Central File or material provided this Panel in support of our preparation for today's hearing suggest that that is the case.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: May I just have a moment, please? I don't have any more questions.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Beausoleil, I suppose I have one in connection with the latter. The Lucifer Rising project, which was initiated years, decades ago.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: How many individuals have been involved in that product as it may have existed over the years in various iterations?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: There were about 12 musicians who were at Tracy with me when the project was recorded. There have been maybe three or four individuals who have been involved in reissuing, you know, the LP and CDs, packages. There's a person who is in charge of mastering. He's a friend of mine, and he, you know, updates the recording with processing it, he improves the sound quality. But you know, three or four beyond the band that was with me originally.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. Thank you. Ms. Lebowitz, anything further?

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: I don't have any more questions, no.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Mr. Campbell, clarifying questions for the Panel. I'm sorry, clarifying questions for your client.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Right. We discussed your remorse. Bobby, initially, when you first came to prison, when you were first incarcerated, did you have trouble expressing that remorse at that time, and what caused that impediment to being able to express remorse?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I had a -- I had extreme difficulty in expressing remorse at that time. I was covering up my failings, and I knew it -- I felt a tremendous guilt and shame over what I had done. But I was unable to express it in any way other than, you know, trying to up a tough guy veneer over the top of it and make the people around me believe that I was somehow okay with it. You know, I had a hard time expressing. I lied to my parents, I couldn't be honest with them, that they believed that I hadn't done it for years, for a number of years afterwards. It was very hard for me to admit what I had done. First of all, admit that I had killed him to others, and to connect and express myself emotionally in relation to that.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And we've discussed, I don't want to retread the same ground, but we've discussed these letters. Do you feel like the, I'll say it, three separate letters you've written through time indicate an evolution in your sense of remorse. Do you feel different now than you did in say, 1997 when you wrote that letter?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I think so, yeah. I think I've been able to be more honest with myself as the years have -- as I've matured. I've continued to mature and accept greater and great responsibility. And understand our connectedness, you know.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I want to ask something related to what Commissioners Grounds was saying, that in terms of the -- not just the murder that you committed, but obviously in the wake of that there was a massive cultural shift due to the actions of the people you had been associated with. Although you were already in custody at the time of those murders, do you still, nonetheless, feel any remorse for your participation in a group that ultimately caused so much harm to so many people. Not even just the people that touched directly, but the entire social fabric?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. I know that I contributed to a culture that helped to enable that sort of antisocial, violent behavior philosophies that, in retrospect, are irrational and found-less. But I do deeply regret that I somehow -- that I supported, you know, through my association with people who were involved in criminal activity, and criminal thinking, that just my associating with them, it contributed to, you know, maybe the group think that helped to enable other people in their own dissociative sort of orientation, their own viewpoints. You know, maybe -- yeah.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And you mentioned previously, and I think it's in the papers, too, that you have been doing some volunteer work related to teaching music, teaching yoga. I also touched on the volunteer work you've done in the hospice --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- here, and I don't think we've discussed it in the meeting, yet. Can you tell me a little bit about that volunteer work and what that means to you?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: When I was at OSP up in Oregon, a friend of mine, a guy I had known from the time I arrived up there, came, you know, he was stricken with cancer suddenly, very suddenly. And he's a vet, and he declined very rapidly. And so I began visiting him, and spending quite a bit of time with him. And was there with him almost through the time of his death. And it was -- it was an incredibly profound experience to have been there with him as he faced his end, and to be able to -- and I, you know, I connect this back to what I didn't give to Gary, you know. That empathy and compassion that he so deserved when he was going through that, when he was being so abused by me and with, you know, not being allowed to go, and get the medical attention that he'd asked for and so that was a profound experience for me. And when I got here, and found out that there was a hospice program, I asked to volunteer, and I've, you know, spent time with me who, as a companion, to men who were dying. And it's been -- it's a profound experience, and --



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I'm aware that there are formal programs that provide inmates specially trained and screen to function in that and related capacities for inmates who are maybe either disabled, or require additional assistance with mobility, and other issues or who may be dying. Can you describe the program that you volunteered in?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. It was -- it's the Pastoral Services Program, but I'm not a worker. I didn't -- I actually have an application in to be a volunteer worker, which is a little different. Right now I am a visiting companion, peer companion. I've been allowed to do that on a, you know, each time someone is going through, then if there may be -- because there's been a couple of people who have requested me to come visit them.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: This is for the Pastoral Services Program --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- rather than through the hospice program, it's not a gold code.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: That actually is the hospice program. Pastoral Service, the PCS program is overseen by Pastor Neff (phonetic), here at the prison. And that is the hospice worker program, he's the supervisor for that program here.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: All right. And for how long have you been --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And they work the medical facility. I'm sorry.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: For how long have you been functioning in that capacity?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: You know, when called upon since maybe March.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And how many inmates have you --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Just two since I've been here.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: One of the things that I think Commissioner LaBahn was kind of touching on is you say that you felt a desire to try and impress some of these older men around you, who you looked up to. And Commissioner LaBahn pointed out that Gary Hinman was older than you, and he was a musician, and stuff and he had some similar interests. But at the time, what was it about these other men that you were trying to impress as opposed to Mr. Hinman, and why was it -- why didn't you give him the same deference?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It was just my confusion at the time in terms of what I saw as being a valuable kind of personality, you know. I thought that being a tough guy was something to be, Gary was not a tough guy. But I look back at it now, and I, you know, he was -- he was far more courageous and strong as an individual in his integrity, in his personal integrity, than the people that I was trying to emulate and impress.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: One, it's kind of a detail question that I wanted to -- I meant to mention earlier. You said there were -- it was mescaline pills, or and you said that was basically the same as peyote, kind of. Do you know, you know, would it require a drug lab, or something? Is it -- it's not something --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- like that, it's simply the cactus itself in the --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's basically -- mescaline is basically sort of dried peyote. It's just a -- peyote is a cactus that Indians use in their sacred practices, and that should be left to them, you know. But the hippies were able to get buds, and you know, the little cactus buds and --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: So it wasn't something like --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- they make mescaline out of it.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And it wasn't something like narcotics, or speed, or --


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: -- meth or anything like that where --



INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Gary would not have ever been touching anything like that.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: And one more, about your relationship to your Barbara's children.


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: You feel you have a very close relationship with Barbara's children from her previous marriage; right?


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: You have been, essentially, a father figure to some of them?


ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: Since you've been moved, have you been able to see any of them?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No. I am on the -- I talk to them on the phone to the extent that, you know, they have time. You know, they're all working, and so it's - - we talk every couple of weeks, or so. I talk to my grandchildren, and to my sons and daughters as often as I can, you know. I mean, I don't want to intrude on their lives, it's not like, you know, I can just take up their time, you know. But they always love hearing from me, and it's --

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I think that's -- well, one other thing. What is the lapel pin you have on your --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Oh, that's just a hospice volunteer, it's a -- and this is a Om symbol, which is related to my spiritual tradition as this is.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I think that's all the clarifying questions I have.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I'm a little out of order here, but I have various, one or two letters that -- actually, more than one or two that I have curiosity about. And looking at my notes, I realize within reason. You developed a, what seems to be a mutually respectful relationship with an individual who seems to have been of high ranking figure in the correctional system, Randy.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you have a number of letters from him over time in a variety of formats. Some quite personal, some reporting your achievements.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I've got his letters here, I've read them, but I don't remember his name right now.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: His name is Randy Geer.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Right. It starts with a G, I remember that. So what's Mr. Geer's status, today?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Mr. Geer has retired from the Oregon Department of Corrections. He was a career man, he worked for them almost 30 years before he retired. And if I may speak on him -- speak to who he is, he is an incredible inspiration to me. His father was a correctional officer at Oregon State Penitentiary, and was murdered by an inmate in a really tragic set of circumstances. Some man was deranged, and Robert Geer, who was his father, Randy's father, was trying to calm this guy down, and get him to a place where, you know, and he stabbed him and killed him. And in spite of that, Mr. Geer realized that the best way to mitigate situations like that, and maybe to prevent things like that from happening, is to reach the inmates on a way where they might be able to address those dysfunctional --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- aspects of character.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We can talk, and I would probably be interested. I don't really need to go there.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You still have a relationship with him, today?

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yes. He's become a friend, now. Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And he lives in Southern California.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: No, he doesn't. He lives and he travels to Southern California sometimes. He lives in Oregon.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: He lives in Salem.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I submitted even a recent letter with the supplemental memorandum a few weeks ago.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I thought I saw a Victorville address, and I was trying to figure out why an individual from there would move there and retire there. I don't know. Whatever.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Actually, I think there's a Victorville, Oregon. So it might be something like that.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Probably it. Fair enough. And his was a service retirement, as far as you know.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: As to what he --



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: -- and then he was able to retire.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you. Further questions from the Panel?



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Lebowitz for a closing, please.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Thank you. The District Attorney's Office would oppose finding of parole suitability for this inmate at this time based upon the following reasons. First and foremost, is Assembly Resolution number five, that was passed in 1977. And while 1977 may be a long time away and ago, the resolution stated that they urge that the legislature would deny parole requests from any individual whose death sentence has been reduced to life in prison by a judicial decision. And this exactly the case that we have here. Mr. Beausoleil was sentenced to death, and his life and his sentence was commuted to life. He falls within that Assembly Resolution, and that should not be ignored. Secondly, although the gruesomeness, and the callousness and heinousness of the crime can never be changed, In re Lawrence says that it can be a factor that can -- that can -- that parole suitability can be denied because of these very factors. Mr. Beausoleil, despite his protestation that he did not stay in the house and hold Gary Hinman hostage for torture, would torture him for three days, he has stated that he only was there for over 30 hours. But all of the rest of the facts in the Appellate Decision, and from every other witness that testified about this crime indicates that Mr. Hinman was tortured over a period of three days. He was -- his ear was severed, he was beaten over the head he was stabbed multiple times. Based upon that, the factors in In re Lawrence cannot be ignored, and his parole suitability should be denied on that basis. In addition, Shaputis indicates that the lack of insight of any inmate can also be grounds for finding a denial of parole suitability. This inmate has no insight. Despite the fact that he tells the Panel that he never makes the same mistakes twice, this inmate had been reported while he was still in Oregon for conducting business while in prison, and conducting an illegal business. Now, while it was investigated, and it was found that he had the permission of Oregon authorities, this brings to light to that he needed the permission of each of -- I'm sorry. I'm getting feedback, I think. Hello?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We've got you loud and clear here, ma'am.

DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY LEBOWITZ: Okay. Thank you. I'm just getting feedback. But he knew that he needed the permission of whatever authority of the state in which he was incarcerated. He was moved back to California in August of 2015, and in -- and in February of 2016, when he came for life, he was still conducting this business. Now, he asked the Board hypothetically, I believe, what did you want me to do? How am I supposed to get this off the internet? Well, you take down the website. It's very easy to take down a website, and that's what he should have done but he didn't. Instead, he continued to conduct business without the permission of the CDCR, knowing that he needed this permission. Now, he also told you that he - - that some of his character defects in fact were that he was impulsive, that he was impulsive and egotistic, and that shows from his behavior because when he was in Oregon he just easily was in sight of parole, he violated one of the rules in Oregon by putting take over the door so that he could have access. Now, I think that his egotism and his impulsivity got the best of him because it seems that Mr. Beausoleil was kind of a bigshot in the Oregon prison, and he could do whatever he wanted. And so he figures that he would just go and do whatever he wanted. Now, do you really believe that he just wanted to make coffee, and that he didn't want to disturb any of the other people in that meeting? They knew -- they knew that he worked in that office. I think the logical inference is that he wanted something out of that office, maybe it wasn't to escape, but he wanted some equipment out of that office and that was his way to get it. Next, he has a very big credibility problem because he's told so many different versions of this life crime that are completely inconsistent with the facts that we know. And one of the Commissioners, and I think it was Commissioner Mahoney, I couldn't see you but I think from the voice it was Commissioner Mahoney who asked the inmate, you know, if you can't really admit the facts of this crime, how are you truly remorseful? And that was one of my questions. And my argument is that you can't be because you cannot own up to what you have truly done. This inmate tried to distance himself from Charles Manson to such a degree because, and rightfully so, that any association with Manson does not get him further to a parole date. So what is he telling you? Brings up this cockamamie story about this drug deal gone bad, which is completely inconsistent with how he described Mr. Hinman as coming into the teachings of Buddhism. As a Buddhist would not cheat someone, much less deal drugs. Based upon his implausible denial, the Busch case, B-U-S-C-H, indicates that parole suitability can be denied on that basis. In addition, he has been cited with a more recent rules violation, in violation of California Code of Regulations, Section 3024, profit enterprise making from prison. Again, he says he doesn't make the same mistakes twice, but he did because he did it in Oregon, and he had to jump through the hoops, and he did it in California. This inmate's insight is bad. He told you that the cartoon that he made that the Commissioners asked him about, even though they were developed in the late eighties, in 2005, they were being sold at a Claire Obscure gallery. And the inmate tells you, well, they were cartoons for a book that his wife was putting out. And in 2005, during his hearing, he describes these cartoons, at page 87, describing them like he was drawing in the Sunday comics. Now, all of you have seen these cartoons. They're not cartoons. They're obscene, perverted, pedophiliac, pornographic drawings. And this inmate still does not have the insight to believe that these drawings are wrong, and that they're not just something he should be embarrassed about. Because, as one of the Commissioners pointed out, that if he were to have to -- have drawn them in California, that would be a 115 rules violation. It shows that his judgement is non-existent. It tells you that none of the drawings that he has currently in his art portfolio are pornographic or objectionable, but if you look at the Tender Exotics collection, you'll see cartoons, not cartoons, but drawings of Venus and Cupid. And I submit to you that they do exhibit pedophiliac tendencies. You have an older woman, Venus, attempting to kiss Cupid, a young boy, on the lips. And the other drawing that is also on that collection has Venus almost sort of scolding Cupid and then Cupid is holding his hands behind his bottom. That could be seen as somewhat pornographic, in line with his other pornography that he's not embarrassed or ashamed about. I think that, you know, this inmate had some revelations when he got stabbed in prison that might have given him some wake-up call. But I think he truly does not have the judgement, does not have the insight and does not -- and is not able to follow the rules. And based upon all of my previous arguments, I submit that the Commissioner should find against parole suitability.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, Ms. Lebowitz. Mr. Campbell?

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I'll make a few comments in response to Ms. Lebowitz, but I did have a couple of other things that I wanted to say, as well. First of all, her first argument related to the 1977 resolution, while I'm familiar with it, it was the packet that the Board has in front of it as well, the Panel has in front of it. That would be in violation of Mr. Beausoleil's and any other inmate's Constitutional rights. There has been a recognized Constitutional right for any inmate who has been afforded an opportunity of parole to have a meaningful opportunity at parole. It's not meant to be just a meaningless exercise, and I think, honestly, if that were the case. If it were just a foregone conclusion that anyone who had previously had the death penalty, their Parole Hearings were just pro forma, that would be an Eighth Amendment violation because that's pretty cruel and unusual to bring someone in, make them sit, and talk and explain themselves only to just be denied as a matter of course. So I think that that resolution from 1977 is unconstitutional and shouldn't be considered. Ms. Lebowitz also commented upon the notion of torture, and the discrepancy between, you know, a day and a half versus three days. And you know, Mr. Beausoleil has never, not now or any previous hearing in recent years, said that he didn't inflict needless suffering upon Mr. Hinman. It's very clear that he did by virtue of his aggressive acts when he -- fighting with Mr. Hinman. By virtue of putting, you know, having a gun and threatening his life, and to depriving him of medical attention before finally killing him. I don't think anyone disputes the callousness of that crime or that it was -- it was unjustifiable from beginning to end. And so I don't, you know, to -- you can call it torture, you can call it any other number of things. I mean, it clearly was a violent, horrific act extended over a prolonged period of time. Which by most definitions of torture, would probably constitute would probably be accurate. I don't think that that's -- I don't think that's been a subject of denial on the part of Mr. Beausoleil, certainly not at this hearing. There's been a lot of discussion about the business in prison. I think, you know, Ms. Lebowitz discussed it, but I think Mr. Beausoleil has expressed everything as well as he could. I don't know that there's anything I can add to that, but I would point out that with respect to all of the things that Ms. Lebowitz is discussing, including the business activities, including the drawings that she considers pornographic, what's the nexus to current dangerousness? How do those things indicate that Mr. Beausoleil is going to be a danger? If I -- if I drive 80 miles per hours on the way home, that's a rule violation, but it doesn't mean I'm going to go out and commit a violent act. I don't think any of these incidents that have been discussed in recent years have any sort of foreshadowing of violence that could be -- that could be attributable to him if he were to be released. I think on balance, the total sum of Mr. Beausoleil's actions, and particularly since the mid-seventies have been -- have been a showing of constant improvement and evolution of character to the point where I think, as a 68-year-old man, almost 69, he is very insightful, and very introspective compared to many people inside or outside of prison walls. There was -- I think one of the things that I wanted to say to the Board is that the fact that Mr. Beausoleil has been brought from Oregon to California, and has adjusted within a short period of time, is remarkable, I think. I think if any of us were just picked up one day, and taken to a new city and said here you go, you're going to be here from now on. Particularly, when you're in prison you're cut off from -- I mean, he had friends who were in custody with him in prison, he had family members who would visit him, that's all gone now. But that hasn't caused Mr. Beausoleil to stop doing the things that are meaningful to him and to the people around him. And I think that's significant because that shows the type of adjustment that he's capable of making if he were released into the general public. It shows that, if so, he would be able to adapt, be able to adjust, and survive and give back to those people around him. And that's what he wants to do. And I think that it's actually interesting because it's kind of a little petri dish of taking someone, and just turning their world upside down and saying here, how are you going to deal with it? And he hasn't responded with violence or any sort of, you know, serious issues here. In fact, he's been doing volunteer work, he's been teaching music, teaching yoga, the hospice care, you know, it's, in my view, it's very remarkable and it shows the type of character that he has in him. And you know, the youth offender considerations that particularly that Commissioner LaBahn was discussing earlier, you know, so much of what's important about considering someone who is a youthful offender are the very hallmarks of Mr. Beausoleil's personality that have been identified. The impulsivity, the antisocial behaviors, all of those things are very much likely to manifest in youthful offenders. And what's interesting with him being an elderly inmate, now, is that there's a natural progression for many inmates that shows that over time those youthful, antisocial impulses wane naturally and through the hard work of the inmate. In this case, it's been both. So I think -- and I think that's actually something that Dr. Levin, in his report, overlooks when he discusses the elderly -- the elderly inmate considerations, his advancing age, he says only his diminished physical capacity. He's only thinking about it in terms of his mental and physical capacity and whether that would make him incapable of harming other people. And we're not arguing that he's incapable of harming other people, I think what Dr. Levin, you know, is not pointing out is that there's a natural maturation process for individuals who, when they get to the age that their latter sixties, and also just when they've been doing all this work for many decades on themselves, and a constant state of introspection, there's a natural maturation process. And I think Mr. Beausoleil's Psych Reports take, when you look at them in succession, amply demonstrate a constant sense of growth and maturity over where he was, you know, back in the 1960's and seventies. And so I think that the -- and I actually, in my original memorandum that I submitted, there's a PowerPoint that Dr. Kusaj, K-U-S-A-J, had put together for the Board to discuss kind of the elderly -- the considerations of elderly inmates, and it goes into a lot of other factors, a lot of other statistical data that show that inmates like Mr. Beausoleil, who don't have any particular mental health disorders diagnosis, are much less likely to reoffend. And I think that's true in Mr. Beausoleil's case, very much so in this case. And so I think that to the extent the Board is considering those factors, which I believe they must, they are very much in favor of a finding of suitability here. I think, when you take the people around Mr. Beausoleil, and the letters that we've submitted and you look at them, there's like, if you imagine like a zoom lens that zooms in, and you have the people who know him best, you have people like Randy Geer, who is a, you know, life time, you know, prison administrator. And Carolyn Schnoor, who also is one of the administrator to the OSP. And the people who worked with him closely, and you keep zooming out, you know, those people that know him best have nothing but good things to say about him and very positive interactions with him both giving and receiving positive interactions with Mr. Beausoleil. And that keeps going, you have his family, and not only -- not only his, I mean, the fact that Barbara's children, his late wife, Barbara's children still look to Mr. Beausoleil as a father figure is a testament to his, you know, compassion and love. And his grandchildren, there's a letter, I think there's two letters, actually, from his granddaughter, Willow. You know, this isn't, you know, whatever -- whoever the man was in 1969, you know, there's been marked growth since then. And now, Mr. Beausoleil has a very different perception of the world around him, and that's very clear when you look at the letters on behalf of the people who know him best. And I, you know, we discussed the parole plans. I think the parole plans are, you know, I don't think the Board seemed to have any problems with that so I won't belabor it. But I do believe that Mr. Beausoleil's recent, in the last hearing and this hearing decision to, you know, to attempt to get into transitional housing and to recognize that after 47 years you can't just step out and be like, hey, I'm ready to deal with the world. That he recognizes that he needs that assistance, and that's a new insight for him, I believe. Because initially, I think in 2010, that wasn't something that he was considering, and I think that, you know, it's not just a matter of oh, this looks good. I think he, you know, there's a certain degree of fear in terms of going out into the world, and knows that having that guidance, and having someone to assist with that transition would be beneficial. And so, you know, we have been looking into that. And I think remorse, you know, there was one thing that I believe Commissioner Mahoney said actually, that you know, the idea if like, if Mr. Beausoleil is making a profit or making any money off of the sales of his art or something, doesn't that undermine his remorse? I'm paraphrasing, but I've been trying to think about that, and I don't -- I don't really understand how that would be true at all. I mean, at some point, if this Board were to release Mr. Beausoleil into the world, he would undoubtedly continue to create art, create music, those sorts of things. I don't think it undermines his remorse at all because, you know, there is no way to absolutely ensure that the people who don't come to Mr. Beausoleil's website aren't interested in it because of some sort of, you know, bizarre fetishization of the Manson Family murders or something like that. There's no way to ensure that. I think Mr. Beausoleil has, through his words, through the character of his art, through his demeanor has, in every way, tried to distance himself and try to put as much of a firewall between himself and that world as possible. And it's failed at time. I mean, the situation at the Claire Obscure gallery was a despicable failure of that, and I think he recognizes that. And you know, it's not -- it's very difficult, especially now, and I don't think Mr. Beausoleil even understands what the world is like with the internet and stuff. It's a different world. It is hard, much harder, to keep that firewall there. But I commend Mr. Beausoleil for trying to do that, and recognizing that need. So I -- and I think this, the last thing I'll say is that I think that the letter that he recently wrote is a very pure statement of his remorse. I don't think it would be undermined by his, you know, the fact that he's been working on selling his art, and I don't think it's undermined by the, you know, the various stories that have come out through the years related to the commitment offense. I don't think there's anything that undermines that. I think it's a very pure, sincere statement of remorse and, you know, I think that he's amply shown that. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. And we have received that letter as an exhibit, as well. Mr. Beausoleil, this is your chance to provide a closing statement to the Panel if you wish. We'd be happy to hear from you.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. Would it be okay if I read this? This is a two-page letter, may I have your permission to read that?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: You may, but I do want to keep things reasonably compact, so does that --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Is that too long? Two pages?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: I'm not going to say that, but if you have other things you want to say as well, you might want to bear that in mind. If you want to spend time reading that letter, go ahead, but --


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: There may be a portion of it you wish to --

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Well, it's -- I kind of wanted to read it in its entirety.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Go for it. Do it, just do it. We're taking more time talking about it.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. All right. Knowing that Ms. Martley is on the phone, and I've never had an opportunity to express myself in my own words, with my own voice to a member of Gary's family, I would like to -- I think it's important to let her hear from me in this --

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And the Panel notes that you're displaying some emotion right now, so go ahead and read the letter.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Okay. To all family relations and friend of Gary Hinman. My intention of writing this letter is to express my profound regrets, and my hopes for healing and reconciliation to everyone who was affected by the death of Gary Hinman, whose life I took in 1969. As you may well imagine, it is difficult to write to you about that terrible tragedy. The emotions that come with the memories of it are still so painful for you, if I may assume, as well as for me. And the last thing I would want to do is to cause anyone more pain. I have no way of knowing whether or not you are aware that this is not the first letter I have written to Gary's family. About 20 years ago, with the help of a private investigator who worked for a law office, I obtained an address that I was led to believe was the address of one of Gary's immediate family relations. I wrote a letter intended for the Hinman family, and sent it to the address I had been provided through an attorney who was representing me at the time. No letter or acknowledgement was received in response. A copy of the letter I wrote in '69 will be included with this in case you would like to refer to it, to what I said back then. In the intervening years since I wrote the earlier letter I have continued to reflect on my responsibility to Gary, to his family and friends, as well as to my own family and to society in general. Although, there were other persons involved in the events leading up to the murder who certainly have significant culpability in that crime, this does not, in any way, lessen my responsibility for what happened. From the moment I made the decision to rob Gary by force, I became responsibility for all -- responsible for all that happened afterward that was some way connected to that decision. I invaded Gary's home, threatened and struck him with a gun, with precipitated the other injuries that were done to him including those actions committed by others who I could not have directly controlled, and that I did not anticipate. After Gary's face had been severely cut, and knowing he was in pain, I made matters worse by holding him against his will and depriving him of the medical attention he was asking for. I was unable to see another way out of the predicament I had created. Excuse me. I killed Gary by stabbing him twice in the chest with a knife I had brought with me. That I am not a violent person by nature made it all the more difficult to be completely honest with myself to where I could even own up to my responsibility, and to own up to my responsibility entirely without holding anything back because it was so hard to think of myself of being capable of such a despicable act as murder. This had contributed to making the single most shameful act of my life, a very heavy burden until I had matured enough to face my responsibility. Killing Gary was the act of a young man who was desperately trying to gain the approval of some older men who had effectively dared him to prove that he could be a tough guy like them. This is by no means an attempt to make an excuse for my actions. My treatment of Gary was utterly reprehensible, selfish, cowardly. It was repugnant in every way, including the way I tried to cover up what I had done by lying afterward, attempting in a childishly manipulative way to deflect my responsibility by blaming others and even evoking racial prejudice. Please know that Gary had done nothing to deserve how he was treated that terrible night. Gary was a good man, peaceable, and kind and generous. Who I -- who had once opened his home to me and befriended me. Truly, there is nothing I would not do to repair the harm I brought to him. I am so sorry for the pain my actions caused him. I also want you to know that I deeply regret there were too many years when my stubbornness and immaturity prevented me to owning up fully to the crime I had committed, and how this prolonged the suffering of others like you who had been affected by it. The Gary I knew was not one to hold a grudge for very long, no matter how badly someone may have treated him. Knowing this made the burden of my shame that much more difficult to bear. Still, I wanted to believe that Gary would have or has -- I want to believe that Gary would have or has forgiven me. At the age of 21, I was ignorant of the example and teachings of the Buddha, and I tend to think that Gary's new -- and I tended to think that Gary's newly found Buddhist faith made him seem week. I came to know that it was actually a great strength. Eventually, Gary would come to be an inspiration by virtue of his having adopted the Buddhist tradition, a spiritual philosophy I have also embraced. Honoring this positive influence, he has been in my life, he has informed some of my -- some of my work over the years. I have no right to ask you to forgive me, and I will not ask that of you for my sake. However, I hope that you may, at some point, if you haven't already, find it in your hear to forgive me just the same. All I am seeking with this letter is to help mend the peace my violence once disrupted. And so with all my heart, I wish you peace.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And that was Mr. Beausoleil's letter, which has been received as an exhibit, today.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I just wanted to say that, in follow-up to that, is it was not lost on me that I've been granted a second chance when I had been released from death row. And I had -- I have been ever grateful for that opportunity to be able to share what I'm sharing with you, today. To be able to make something better with my life than the shambles that I had made of it when I killed Gary. I am -- I am very grateful to all the Commissioners here for your willingness to consider the possibility of giving me a third chance. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, Mr. Beausoleil. We've now reached the portion of the hearing where we will receive impact statements. I believe we have at least one. Ms. Martley, did you wish to make a statement, today?

MS. MARTLEY: Yes, I do.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And obviously, we know who you are, ma'am. But as you may recall, we request that you introduce yourself for the record again, for the benefit of the transcriptionist.

MS. MARTLEY: I am Kay Hinman Martley. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on behalf of a member of my family who cannot speak for himself. My cousin, Gary Hinman, was a musician who left his home state of Colorado to live and work as a musician in the Los Angeles area. Gary was a kind and outgoing -- he was a good-hearted person who often gave others in need of a place to stay, or a few dollars to get by. Gary's charity is what led him to befriend the wrong kind of people, the kind of people who tortured him for several days before killing him. And Robert Bobby Beausoleil was among the group of people, and that group of people is known as the Manson Family. Gary was only 35 years old. Everyone knows the Manson Family is responsible for the murders of Sharon Tate, her friends, the LaBiancas, Shorty Shea and others who had the misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am here today to speak on behalf of our family, and remind this Panel of the devastating impact Gary's death had and continues to have on our family. Even Gary's death hasn't gone in the same kind of publicity, Gary's mother died only a year after Gary's murder, at the age of 61. We watched the stress and grief eat away at her until it killed her. Gary's sister, Carol (phonetic), can barely bring herself to talk about what happened to her brother. She remains afraid even now to speak out for fear of retribution from other Manson followers. Over the years, Bobby Beausoleil's story about the level of his involvement, his actions, and others, his culpability has changed constantly. Gary was a Buddhist, and we do not believe he was selling drugs. Where was the money or the drugs? He had two old cars. I grew up with Gary, and I'm here to tell you that Gary's murder has had a lasting impact on our family. Every time a member of the Manson Family comes up for parole, the surviving members of Gary's family must relive the horror of his death. These people held Gary captive in his home, stabbed him, cut off his ear, tortured him over a period of three days. When they found him the carpet was soaked with Gary's blood, the walls were covered with Gary's blood. This wasn't a crime of passion or impulse, this was slow, calculated and cold blooded. This is what Bobby Beausoleil did. The problem is, you can't undo a murder. You can't undo the death of a mother over her son. You can't undo the paralyzing fear that his sister lives with on a daily basis. You can't undo the empty space in a family where a living, breathing person once was. Above all, you can't change history, but that's exactly what Bobby Beausoleil wants you to do. He wants you to forget that he is a murderer. He wants you to forget that he's alive today and Gary isn't. Do websites, CDs meet the definition of life imprisonment? Why is Beausoleil allowed a Facebook page as well as his own website which is very demonic in nature? Artwork and CDs are for sale on this site, and they vary from 15 dollars on to a hundred dollars. On the internet it says The official authorized website for the visionary art, musician, author, composer of epic Lucifer Rising. There is also a recording on YouTube. I question the official authorized. I question where did the profits from CDs, et cetera, sold from the website go. I question how is Beausoleil able to record music in prison. Any profit should go to the state of California to repay for the cost of his imprisonment. It would not be my definition of life imprisonment to be given this kind of freedom. Although 47 years have passed, Gary's memory is still with our family as well as the horrific circumstances of his death. I am implore to deny the parole because of the severity of this crime. Life imprisonment without parole is the punishment. Thank you.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, Ms. Martley. The time is now 3:45. I believe we have no further speakers. Ms. Lebowitz, that --

MS. TATE: Excuse me, sirs. I would like to make an impact statement.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Ms. Tate, did you wish to speak?

MS. TATE: Yes, I did.

ATTORNEY CAMPBELL: I would, just for the record, at least, object to -- because I believe, and I actually spoke to Ms. Lebowitz about this previously, I believe that the Statutory Scheme is very clear that support individuals are not entitled to speak at hearings. They're simply there for support. I thought I had an understanding with Ms. Lebowitz that she agreed with me on that issue.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And you've already rendered an objection, and I've already ruled on that objection. We will permit Ms. Tate to provide a statement as a support party for the reasons which I stated earlier in today's hearing. Ms. Tate?

MS. TATE: Thank you, Commissioners. Instead of reading written statement, I would like to address the facts as they may be that the Commissioners may not be aware of. In today's conversations with Mr. Beausoleil, he reiterated that the music scene in San Francisco was decaying or deescalating. I lived in Sausalito from 1965 to 1969. I was very involved in the music scene, and there was no such decay. There was no violence other than the killing of the Kennedys, and perhaps the Vietnam War and the then forming Black Panther group without any actual physical proof of violence at that point in time. He chose to lead a free-loving environment for something more salacious, perhaps. Perhaps more sex, drugs and rock-'n'-roll, or perhaps he wasn't as famous as he would have liked to have been at that time. I'm not sure, but I can definitely attest to the fact that the scene was not that that he reported to you, today. I was there, living it. I was also good friends with a Hells Angel by the name of Chocolate George who was the head of the San Francisco chapter at that time, and was very much into peace and love and not a life of violence. Yes, there were other chapters that were quite violent, but not that chapter at that time. So his recollections are slightly mistaken, and his purporting of his recollections are inaccurate in those regards and I would like that entered into the record.


MS. TATE: He said he was making a living as --


MS. TATE: -- as a musician.


MS. TATE: Yes?

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: As you're aware, we are on the record, so you've just done that.

MS. TATE: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: What would be most helpful for the Panel right now would be an impact statement.

MS. TATE: This is an impact, sir.


MS. TATE: These facts impact us victims in a huge way, as well as the 30,184 letters in opposition of Mr. Beausoleil's parole possible or pending parole, which has not been mentioned along with the letters of support in the fashion that it usually is.


MS. TATE: There are some other things that definitely affect us victims us and us family members because everything Mr. Beausoleil says or does very much hangs in the ears of all of the remaining Hinman family, as well as myself and all of the rest of the victims. As he said, himself, his actions set the rest of the horrific crimes in place, so therefore I feel it just as much as the Hinman family. I feel the loss, I feel the void, and I can tell you that this man is as self serving and lying as what he has accused Charlie Manson of. He is not recalling the situation exactly correctly, and that is extremely offensive to me.


MS. TATE: We cannot -- we cannot believe the fact that this individual has got to run businesses, has not even occurred to him to make a music foundation in Gary Hinman's name as a way to pay restitution. Has not paid restitution to the state of California, although he's got a living trust to pay for 40 percent to his -- the support of his family in the case of his demise. All of these factors are factors that affect us in a very negative way. And Mr. Beausoleil and yourself need to hear that. Thank you for your time.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you, Ms. Tate. The time is now 3:50. This Panel will recess for deliberation.




PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: And the time is 4:25. Thank you, ma'am, 5:25. The Panel reviewed all relevant information before us, today. We concluded that Robert Beausoleil does pose a present risk of danger to society and a threat to public safety if released from prison. He is therefore not suitable for parole. This finding is based on weighing the considerations provided in the California Code of Regulations, Title 15. Mr. Beausoleil, this is a three year denial.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: In reaching our decision, today, we did note that Mr. Beausoleil did not possess a history of violent crime while a juvenile. We also note that prior to his incarceration, other than the commitment offense, we're unaware of any prior act of violence on his part, and significantly, we note that in nearly 50 years of incarceration he has only been involved in, I believe, one act with an act of violence, he was a victim at one point. Moreover, it has been decades since that incident. We note that during his incarceration, disciplinary actions notwithstanding, Mr. Beausoleil does appear to have demonstrated a stable social history and that stability has clearly been recognized by multiple institutions, in two states, over literally decades during which he has been provided the opportunity to employ his gifts, his skills, his arts, his music with the permission of various administrations. The Panel notes that Mr. Beausoleil, back to the seventies, was deploying his musical talents in the institution with CDC's blessing. We note that for decades, two decades in the state of Oregon, he did so in a variety of settings. Markedly, increasing his marketable skills and based upon the input received from correctional staff from that state, including a ranking official and others, as well, he provided great benefit to that organization and the people of the state of Oregon in doing so. The Panel notes that at 68, 69 in just a few days, Mr. Beausoleil is of an age which suggests a statistically reduced risk of violent recidivism. In reaching out decision today we were mindful of the fact that Mr. Beausoleil, having committed this crime at the age of 21, and having been in prison for nearly five decades, is a youthful offender, and a qualified youthful offender, and also is an elderly offender. We did pay particular heed to the hallmark features of youth, some of which do appear to have been present in his decision-making at the time of the commitment offense. We also paid particular heed to those medical conditions, which he currently experiences, and we certainly note his statements to us and the statements of the clinician in that regard. Mr. Beausoleil appears to be in reasonably good health. We noted Mr. Beausoleil's plans for parole, which I don't think I overstated to say this Panel regards as wholly acceptable. We think there are a variety of locations into which Mr. Beausoleil could parole immediately and subsequently, and that he is demonstratively more than capable of generating an income and supporting himself. If at some future date that should not be possible based upon the support that Mr. Beausoleil clearly enjoys from family, and supporters, and potentially via Social Security, as well -- as well as residuals from his creative ventures that he would be able to support himself in the future, as well. On that topic, we certainly note that Mr. Beausoleil has upgraded his already marketable skills to a significant extent during his incarceration, and there is ample documentation of that fact. So there are positives here, no doubt. They are, in this Panel's judgement however, today, outweighed by other circumstances which suggest unsuitability and would suggest that, if released at this time, Mr. Beausoleil would pose an unreasonable threat to public safety. The commitment offense, obviously, will always remain disturbing and impactful, and obviously, that's an understatement but I don't think more commentary is necessary in that regard. The Panel recognizes as, I think, the emphasis that we placed on various segments on this hearing should make clear that with the passage of time factors, such as the commitment offense, may no longer indicate a current risk of danger to society when considered in light of a period of positive rehabilitation, and there appears to be little doubt that Mr. Beausoleil, having been in prison for 47 years, and done many positive things during that time, many of which he is still doing, that he has engaged in a process of positive rehabilitation. And we did consider other circumstances therefore, in reaching our decision, that he does pose a continued unreasonable threat to public safety. And Mr. Beausoleil, as you might imagine, based upon the decision, which I have already rendered, this is a relatively narrow decision. Mr. Beausoleil has engaged in serious misconduct in the institution. The rules violation report, which he received in Oregon comparatively recently, just a year and a half or so ago, was of concern to this Panel. We listened carefully to his explanation, and it does appear that his statements concerning why he did what he did are consistent with the record. Really, that didn't concern us. The thought process that went behind what he did, did concern us. The fact that an individual who had been in prison for many years, is obviously an intelligent, accomplished individual, would do what he did concerns us. There is nothing more basic, as was discussed during deliberation on a number of occasions, than the integrity of the locks in a prison. And regardless of this particular setting, which was a work office setting, regardless of the fact that there was video surveillance, regardless of the fact that Mr. Beausoleil, at the time, was a trusted regular worker in that area the decision-making process that he exhibited at that time was impulsive and it was suggestive of an attitude which, in the Panel's judgement, reflects or reflected an unwillingness to adhere to obviously the rules in the institution. But by extension, the conditions that would likely be placed upon Mr. Beausoleil on parole and the law in greater society when he is placed on parole. It makes it more likely, in this Panel's judgement, that Mr. Beausoleil still possesses an attitude and world view that suggests that he views himself as somewhat exempt to certain rules, and that concerns us. And therefore, although it occurred a year and a half ago in the state of Oregon, we believe that his statements concerning what occurred today make it current, and it leaves this Panel convinced that Mr. Beausoleil is not, today, suitable for parole. Now, there was considerable conversation during today's hearing about the pending rules violation report here at CDCR. Frankly, that pending rules violation report didn't really factor into our decision making. Now, it would be disingenuous to suggest that it might not potentially be a factor in the future, it may or may not be. This Panel took note in reaching our decision today, again for decades, Mr. Beausoleil has exercised his gifts in a variety of settings with the blessing of a variety of institutions. We take note of the fact that Mr. Beausoleil has taken formal and deliberate steps, apparently fairly timely ones, to get permission to continue doing what he has been doing. And in that vein, we strongly encourage Mr. Beausoleil to continue in that direction and to receive the blessing of and approval of the institution before he continues that which he has been doing for decades with respect to his art and his music. And to take steps in the interim to forestall any doubts that might be expressed in the future concerning his willingness to proceed with activities that appear likely to be, at this point, having not been approved, in violation of institution regulations. That should not be difficult to do.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I don't think so.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The Comprehensive Risk Assessment prepared by Dr. Levin, and approved on March 1st of 2016 found that Mr. Beausoleil would present a statistically low risk of re-offense in the free community. The Panel did not take this Risk Assessment lightly. The Risk Assessment was very comprehensive, it was recent and it appears that Mr. Beausoleil was a full and willing participant in this assessment. And it was a positive assessment. And we also noted and profited from the assessment completed by the psychologist in the state of Oregon, Dr. Calistro, which although completed according to a different format, did use at least one of the same test instruments, it was a comprehensive document and arrived at conclusions that were very parallel to those which our own Forensic Assessment Division arrived at more recently. Commissioner, did you have input?



COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: Obviously, you compromised the security of an institution, stay away from those 115s; okay? And continue working in an effort to honor Gary Hinman. Continue working in hospice, and as the Warden gives you authorization, use your gifts to somehow build that nexus because as you affected society in a negative way, I think that you could -- you could reverse, I can't say reverse, but you could go the flip side of that and do something honorable with those gifts creatively that would help increase that nexus of, you know, restitution, if you will. Give it some though.


COMMISSIONER GROUNDS: With the Warden's blessing; okay?





INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm going to comply with the rules, whatever they -- whatever he tells me he wants me to do.


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: But thank you. Thank you for that, and thank you both, thank you all for --


INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: -- your consideration.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Just one or two things. So you came in here as a youth offender, and that's an advantage to you. We have to give it great weight. The reason is that young people tend to act more impulsively, and so the assumption is as they mature they will not act impulsively. And maybe that impulsivity led to their crime, but when at 68 years old, seven years old, you're still acting impulsively. When asked for your character defects you said impulsivity was one of them. It kind of negates the benefit of being a youth offender. You need to show us that you've matured and you're not acting that way. I mean, this 115, you lost your job over it, but even worse than that, sir, you didn't just make it easy for yourself to get in or out. I don't know what the real motive was behind it, but you let any inmate who saw you or knew about that get in and out. And maybe they had motives that weren't as innocent as yours. They would have access to phones that were not being monitored, computers. I mean, the number one function of a prison is security, and you breached that security. That's a really big deal, sir. And I know you're aware of that, now.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I'm not going to beat a dead horse on that. The other thing I'd just mention to you, sir, is the one negative about the Psych Report, I would say, is the issue with the substance abuse. Just denial, in no way, hinges on that. But since you have three years now, I would continue with the whatever program you do, make your relapse prevention plan, get it to the Panel. You didn't have one for us, today.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: Aside from that, the hospice is another issue with you. I would -- that's a really good thing, sir. If you're doing that, it wasn't in your file. I didn't even know that until you told me that. So why don't you try to get -- and no, that's not your fault, but if you're going to do that you should get the benefit of it, at least to a certain extent, of letting a Panel know that you're doing that. Have someone write you a laudatory for it, or get a chrono for it or get something in your file that we know you're actually involved in this.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Yeah, that, I have to say it's so not why I am doing it. To get anything back.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: No. I know that. I know that. But if you're going to do it anyway, you might as well have the Panel --


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: -- know you're doing it.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: And I will ask the Chaplain to do that for me.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: I know you're not doing it for the chrono, obviously.


DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MAHONEY: But if you're going to do it anyway, you might as well get the chrono.



PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Thank you. And I would, in support of that exchange, it's apparent to Panels when inmates are fishing for chronos. You have huge support, obviously you don't need to fish for chronos, and it's apparent that you're not. But it is important to document the things that are done, so could be important. All right. The Panel is obligated under current law to consider whether a 15-year or ten-year denial length is appropriate in reaching a decision considering an appropriate denial period for Mr. Beausoleil. Of which we noted what are obviously stable, long term supportive relationships which Mr. Beausoleil has built and maintained with family members, with staff and with other inmates, as well. And certainly the network of support that he has outside of prison, Mr. Beausoleil, it was apparent in reviewing the documents provided us today that --

MS. MARTLEY: Let me call you back. Yeah, me too.


MS. TATE: I guess they did.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: No. They're just waiting. No, ma'am.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: It was apparent to me that you have, or those working on your behalf, have put forth effort, deliberate effort to avoid capitalizing on the notoriety of the cases related to yours and your own case. That was apparent to me in the materials that I reviewed, it's important that that continue to be the case.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We also took note of Mr. Beausoleil's lack of any documented act of violence for the last 29 years. We took note of Mr. Beausoleil's age, nearly 69. We took note of his plans for release and capability for becoming self supporting when he is paroled, which are fully acceptable to this Panel. We took note of his institutional activities, which reflect years of positive programming. We took note of the tone that he established in today's hearing, which was one of responsiveness, respectful of the process and certainly pleasant to the Panel which we appreciate. We found clear and convincing evidence that a lengthier denial period was not needed. We determined the three-year denial period to be appropriate. Mr. Beausoleil can request a hearing before the denial period we just issued if there's a change of circumstance or new information that suggests a reasonable likelihood that addition incarceration is not required you can petition for an advancement of his next hearing date. The Panel recommends that Mr. Beausoleil receive no more rules violation reports, or 128As and that he continue to participate in self-help. And the whole marijuana thing is of interest, and it is complicated now because of the changes in the law.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: It's not complicated for me, sir.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: Well, then, very good. Then that's something that you can convey to the next Panel.


PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: We encourage Mr. Beausoleil to review the transcript from today's hearing, which we hope is helpful. Term calculations are required due to a recent change in Board policy. We're doing them again even for youthful offenders and elderly offenders, so I will provide them. The base life crime for which Mr. Beausoleil has been committed is Murder in the First Degree, Penal Code Section 187. The offense occurred on July 27th, 1969. The term is derived from the Matrix located in the California Code of Regulations Title 15, it's Section 2282(b). The Panel finds that Category 2(c) is appropriate in that Mr. Beausoleil did indeed have a prior relationship with the victim, Mr. Hinman, and the victim's death occurred as a result of severe trauma inflicted with deadly intensity. The Panel assesses 180 months, this is the base term. Mr. Beausoleil, this Panel does wish you well.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: Thank you, sir.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER LABAHN: The time is now 5:42. And that will conclude this hearing.

INMATE BEAUSOLEIL: I'm grateful for you.