• 10050 Cielo Drive Front Door Up For Auction

10050 Cielo Drive Front Door Up For Auction

Monday, July 31st, 2023

Jul. 31 – Julien’s Auctions and Turner Classic Movies are auctioning a vast collection of objects marketed as synonymous with Hollywood’s greatest legends and the world’s most famous figures.

Included in this auction will be lot #1029, the front door of 10050 Cielo Drive. It is the door that Susan Atkins infamously scrawled the word PIG in Sharon Tate’s blood in the early morning hours of August 9, 1969. The same door where LAPD lifted the only latent fingerprint that tied Tex Watson to the murder scene.

The cottage-styled door dates back to 1942 and covered the front entryway to the main residence from construction to demolition. In 1994, musician Trent Reznor took the door and subsequently put it on his New Orleans recording studio. Reznor eventually abandoned the studio and the new tenant sold the door to Christopher Moore, a local man and self-described collector of oddities.

The door will be sold at Julien’s “Legends: Hollywood & Royalty” auction, taking place live Wednesday, September 6th in Beverly Hills. Online bidding has already begun.

Updated 9/8/23 – The door was sold to an undisclosed bidder for $127,000

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125 Responses to 10050 Cielo Drive Front Door Up For Auction

  1. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Sick.

  2. Lee says:

    I know there are plenty of people who would want it, but damn…..talk about bringing some weird vibes in your home or place of business. I wouldn’t even want to walk by it in a museum. That has to be infuriating to Debra Tate, too.

    • Lisa says:

      Lee
      Why would Debra Tate be mad? She auctioned off some of her sister’s personal belongings

      • happydaysarehereagain says:

        Lisa: Perhaps Debra Tate would be mad about the front door being sold as a collectable item since the word “Pig” was written on it in her butchered sister’s blood. As for Debra Tate auctioning her sister’s personal property that now belongs to her, I’m fairly certain none of the items had been covered in Sharon Tate’s blood.

        False equivalent.

  3. Old Michael says:

    Nothing good to say about this or the people promoting it.

  4. George Vreeland Hill says:

    It will be interesting to see who buys it.

  5. kathy says:

    Nothing good can come of this door. Real bad karma.

  6. Matt says:

    Too bad you can’t see who is bidding.

  7. Medium Patty says:

    Does this fall under “Hollywood” or “Royalty”, I wonder?

  8. Louise LaBianca says:

    I saw an article on TMZ today, Debra Tate is definitely not in favor of this auction. I admire her outspokenness.

  9. Louise LaBianca says:

    The only comparison I can think of offhand…probably not a good one but coming from a similar place, I imagine…was a few years back when Zak Bagan bought the Waverly Dr house. There was speculation that he was going to do some paranormal investigation, not sure if that was his intention or not but talk was circulating. I remember telling my Uncle Dana about it. He was a close personal friend of my dad’s in high school and had a lot of respect for the LaBianca family. At one point he lived in the back room/apt. on Waverly Dr. and seemed quite concerned. He may have written to Zak about it, although he never told me. As it turned out, Zak sold the house and mentioned his respect for our family.
    So yes, I understand what is not right about making an artifact or an entire home into a public spectacle but it just goes with the territory unfortunately.

  10. Louise LaBianca says:

    Meanwhile, the bidding for the Tate door seems to be hovering/stalling at $30,000.

  11. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Louise: Couldn’t help but notice today is your Dad’s 98th birthday. Hoping today brings fond memories of a life once lived, and not focused on how he died.

  12. Scottthomas says:

    I wonder who has the mailbox..?!?

  13. Louise LaBianca says:

    HDAHA: I know, I have been thinking of him today too–thank you!

  14. Kim says:

    Hi
    I’ve been following this site for a few years- i’ve just been shy to post . However, being horrified and disgusted by this news and whoever is promoting it, has helped me to overcome my shyness
    Best regards to Louise and all affected. Thank you Louise for adding so much insight. Thanking all of you for your heartfelt posts and points of discussion, including Mr. Pfeiffer
    Kim

  15. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you as well, KIM!

  16. Kim says:

    That’s really gracious of you, thanks Louise

  17. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Kim: Welcome aboard!

    • Kim says:

      Many thanks ! I will be less shy now as I have been for a few years and promise to contribute. I just wanted to mention also that the posts and discussions over the last couple of months have been especially moving. I wish there was some kind of a forum that was not particularly tied to specific update topics so that we can go back-and-forth. In any case thank you everyone and best wishes to all. It’s been a trying few months to say the least for those who are affected by the events. I’m really sorry about that, and all of the issues are incredibly complex

      • happydaysarehereagain says:

        Kim: Cielo recently updated this forum, which is better than it was. I use the new “reply” to a post, which places it where it should go in order, however if you don’t scroll to it, you may not read a response. So yes, I agree with you on easier navigation. As it is now, all we can do is try to find our way with using “reply”, seeing the number of responses change at the bottom of the posted update, and hope one sees it.

        I too am not fond of profiting from one’s violent crime or the ones that find twisted value in gore lore. I’m still of the mindset that LVH will profit off her crimes. Time will tell.

  18. Kim says:

    I guess my last comment in this particular update thread would be to quote one of the relatives during one of the parole hearings, I forget which one. People that Are looking to profit from these tragedies are parasites and reprensible . That’s not an exact quote but you get my point . Having worked in healthcare for nearly 40 years, I can tell you that these kinds of people are missing a chip . It’s voyeurism and abuse

  19. Louise LaBianca says:

    I spent many years in the antiques and collectibles arena, more of a hobby than as a money-making business, and I would always wonder about the history of certain pieces of furniture and the like. I remember one lady sold me an interesting side table that had purportedly come from the estate of the Hollywood movie star, Claudette Colbert, who starred in movies with Clark Gable. My partner and I would always laugh about it, the way the lady used this as a selling point and with no certificate of authenticity or anything! We didn’t pay much for the table but it was a real curiosity piece anyway. No telling what people may find interesting. I mean, really if you look at it objectively it’s just a door. $35,000 for a door?

  20. Louise LaBianca says:

    Now that I’m older and my days of moving furniture and doors are behind me, I would rather collect vintage records, photos and memories written in books. I tend to side with Debra Tate on this one. It’s a bit macabre to buy that door when there are books about Sharon’s life that may actually have a greater value in the long term–who really knows? On the authenticity factor, I believe the auction house will be able to verify all that. Following the bids anyway, for whatever reason I do not know!

  21. Sean K. says:

    Not to sound ghoulish, but I can see how someone would be interested in the door for its historic value, with all due respect to Debra and the loss of her sister. Obviously, the horrible message left on it by Atkins only serves to intensify its notoriety. Despite this, as far as I know, the door is the only remaining artifact from the crime scene and surely represents a significant chapter in the lives of the Tate family and, of course, all of the victims and their families.
    I discovered this incredible site recently when I did a google search on William Garretson, the property’s caretaker during the murders. I have been reading posts throughout the site and have been heartened to learn that so many people still care about this case and its tragic aftermath. I don’t know if it makes me sound like a freak to admit that I’ve been fascinated with this case since I was a kid. But at least I know other people are interested and can’t “let go” of these heinous events of oh so long ago. I guess that’s why we convene here. To share a common grief, if you will.
    My involvement starts when I was about seven (circa 1971). My sister and I were watching Valley Of The Dolls on TV. I even remember the scene in question. A stunningly beautiful blonde was descending a staircase wearing a ridiculously huge headdress. My sister explained that this beautiful woman had been murdered in a horrible way some years earlier. That was quite possibly the first time I learned about the “evil that men do”. It was also the first time I heard the name Charles Manson. I guess that started it. Years later, while at my friends house, I was introduced to a hardback copy of Helter Skelter. Just looking at the pictures and reading the captions left such a profound impact on my young imagination. I was hooked.
    It wasn’t as if I lived Helter Skelter in the years that followed. I was a relatively normal teenager. I just had an interest in the morbid aspects of history. For some reason, though, I was obsessed with that house, insomuch as I would have dreams about it. Walking about the house and property, etc. It haunted me. Then, in the summer of 1984, another friend and I visited the Los Angeles area to stay with family and friends in Malibu. You know what comes next!
    I had to satisfy my curiosity about the property at Cielo Drive. We followed a paper map (the days before iPhones) and ended up at the front gate of 10050. What can I say? It was eerie. At that point in time, everything was the same as it was in 1969. The house hadn’t even been repainted. The gate was the same cyclone fence, the telephone pole, mailbox, gate button, etc. Everything was still there. If you are familiar with the property, as I’m sure many of you are, you couldn’t see much of the house from the gate, only a section of the expansive driveway and a corner of the garage. And as we know, this was where Steve Parent was. Of course, being the determined youngsters we were, my friend and I pondered a further incursion. So we decided to drive up to an area above the property and try and see more from there. We found a small cul de sac composed of several houses and one vacant lot. My friend decided he had seen enough and stayed in the car, but I ventured out and scaled down the hill to see if I could find the house. Suddenly there it was! I remember the exhilaration of that moment. I had popped out of the trees right behind the guesthouse. There was a fence that I walked along as I snapped pictures with my cheap Vivitar. As I walked along the fence, which was probably 10 to 15 feet up the hill from the rear of the house, I noticed all the footprints in the dirt below me. I suddenly felt dirty myself and thought “what in hell are you doing? You’re a ghoul!” I had made it to the garage and then turned to retrace my path. I remember seeing a gardener out in front near where Abigail was. I think Altobelli was probably living there at the time, before he sold it.
    I’m 59 now and reflect on that experience with some disbelief. How could I have been so brazen and, I suppose, disrespectful. When you are young and immature, you don’t always think things through. I guess, however, it satisfied my curiosity and effectively ended my obsession. I was actually sorry to hear that they tore it down and replaced it with that hideous monstrosity. Despite its notoriety and the horrible events that occurred there, it was a charming estate. It was so peaceful and calm the day I was there, and that’s how I prefer to remember it. As a sort of placid remembrance to those poor souls. I still have those photographs, as lousy as they are!

  22. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you for sharing your personal memories, intertwined with the historical significance of the horrific events that took place so long ago, as you said. I don’t know if anyone really understands or can explain why people are still talking about it, making movies about it, even learning new facts about the case every day. Decades ago I had hoped people would forget but today I am actually thankful that many still care and show empathy for the victims’ family members.

    I, too, was very much impressed with Sharon Tate’s performance in Valley of the Dolls; it played at our local theatre for several weeks in 1968 so at age 12 I must have seen it three or four times because that was my Friday night routine to go to the movies with my friends and/or family. I also loved Patty Duke’s performance and was interested to recently learn that Patty and Sharon were good friends in real life.

    I don’t think you should need to apologize for taking a few photos of Cielo Dr. To think of all the photographers who did so right after the murders and for other purposes, don’t worry about it! You evidently captured a moment in time when peacefulness pervaded the scene.

  23. Louise LaBianca says:

    I still wouldn’t want that door, though. Not because it’s creepy and macabre, which it is; but because I prefer to learn about Hollywood history by way of reading personal stories and watching classic films.

    • Paul says:

      My first post here, although I have been following this site for a long time.

      I don’t have any strong feeling over the auction of the door but I can perfectly understand it seems macabre or weird. It’s a historical artefact and is part of the story of what happened that night on Cielo Drive. I doubt it’s been acquired as an investment but who knows the motivation.

      I enjoyed the chat between Louise Labianca and Sean K, which I found insightful. I’m glad that Sean found 10050 Cielo Drive to be peaceful on the day he visited and took his photos. He sounded quite adventurous in his quest to see first hand the locations of the tragedy at Cielo Drive and Waverley Drive. Louise’s recollections were fascinating.

      I live in UK but visited LA briefly in 1986 at the end of a business trip to Houston, San Francisco and Newport Beach. I plan to return as I feel the need to visit Cielo Drive and pay my respects to Sharon at Holy Cross Cemetery in Culver City. I will also go pay homage at Waverley Drive.

      Sharon had a small scar on her left cheek that she acquired as a 6 year old. I have always found it to be a beautiful part of who she was, and still is in my heart. She was 6 years older than me so that has always felt like a subtle connection between us.

      I miss her so much.

      Regards to Louise. I expect you were dumbfounded that Leslie Van Houten has been allowed back into the community. God bless you.

  24. Sean K. says:

    Thank you so much for responding Ms. LaBianca! I think I speak for the majority of those posting on this site, that it is an honor to have your input. As I mentioned above, I am new to this extraordinary forum and was frankly surprised to see an actual family member and someone so personally and profoundly affected by this tragedy, so willing to reach out and communicate their feelings so freely. I’m glad to hear that it serves as a comfort to you to know that people still do truly care about your dad and stepmom and, of course, all of the unfortunate souls that came in contact with these murderous vagabonds. One can only imagine what you went through as you experienced the horror on a firsthand basis. I am SO sorry for your loss. I realize you hear this frequently in these posts, but I just wanted to put in my two cents, for what it’s worth! I have read many of your posts and am thrilled that you have addressed my post directly, because it gives me the rare opportunity to converse with somebody so intimately involved in this case.
    In my previous post, I spoke of visiting Cielo Drive in 1984. Out of respect to you and knowing that you were on this particular thread I didn’t want to talk about also visiting your dad’s house that day fearing that it might upset you. But as you may have expected, yes, we did indeed head out to Los Feliz and Waverly Drive that afternoon as well. I recall standing on the street and looking up that long driveway to where the white house, with its terra cotta roof, sat up on the hill. As with the previous house, it was just as powerful an experience. I remember seeing a group of what appeared to be Hispanic people sitting up near the front porch. Again, the place looked exactly as it had all those years ago. If you look at it now, it looks very different and appears to now share a driveway with the house next door. So, before we left, I took a quick picture of it, capturing the driveway and one of the stucco pillars with the numbers 3301 still there. That image has stayed with me all these years! I don’t like to dwell on the actual murders in these posts, but I feel so horrible for your folks when I think about how Manson just randomly sealed their fate. As I’m sure you know, he went to the Howard True home first and upon finding nobody there, cut directly over to your parents house. It makes you think of the phrase “but for the grace of God” and how vulnerable we all really are.
    In conclusion, and I hope this hasn’t been too much, I wanted to share with you something I noticed when I looked at the photos on this site taken in your parents home. First, I was so moved by the contents of Rosemary’s wallet. In a way, she reminds me of my own mother, who I lost 28 years ago to lung cancer. Rosemary was a few years older, but I was struck by how similar their handwriting was! And looking at the credit cards, licenses etc. is like going through my own mom’s wallet (I still have it). Even the faded, worn photo she had in there (lt looks like a ceremony in a high school gymnasium) reminds me of photos my mom kept. But one thing that really stood out to me was a picture of a bookcase in the house. Expanding the image, I could see several hardback James Bond books. I possess the exact same editions! I’ve collected them over the years and believe that they were “book-of-the-month” releases. It made me feel a kinship to your dad, as I assume they were his. Made me very sad looking at those photos. Bless them both!
    Thank you for your memories of Valley Of The Dolls! I’m extremely nostalgic and love to hear such recollections. It is the king of camp classics and a joy to revisit now and then. And yes, Sharon and Patty Duke were friends. In fact, Sharon and Roman rented her house just prior to moving into 10050.

  25. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: By an odd coincidence, I was also intrigued about that bookshelf photo but for a different reason–there was a skull or something and it didn’t seem to be anything familiar or what my dad would have. He was mainly a coin collector, a lover of animals–especially horses as we all know–and I also knew about his gun collection. As far as books and reading, believe it or not he was a lover of Shakespeare and philosophy books as complex as possible. I know this because he would ask my mom to send him books when he was overseas in WW II. That’s it. He was not a skull collector, that is for sure! Even though it has been so many years, I just started dwelling on it and I finally wrote the administrator of this site about it as he is quite knowledgeable.

    It turns out that the bookshelf was in my stepbrother Frank’s room! And yes, I definitely recall how much Frank (Frankie, to me) loved James Bond. I remember there was a family wedding in 1966 and the reception was more for the adults so my dad dropped us kids off at the movies to see the new James Bond film that had just been released. Sorry I can’t recall which one–Goldfinger?

    Anyway, thank you for bringing that up–very interesting! I am glad you went by the house and took photos. My mom actually went there on a talk show interview thing c. 1990? She and my nephew Tony LaMontagne did a walkthrough of the house and you can find it on YouTube if you are interested. Of course it is very sad, especially for my nephew who never knew his grandfather Papa Leno. But it’s a part of history so I personally believe it’s important, even though I would never do it myself (walk inside). I have driven by a few times over the years, particularly after 2000 or so when I was in the area alot. It just looks so different from the outside with that gated look.

    Great meeting you, SEAN K! Take good care of those photos!

  26. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: So I looked up the James Bond movies and they didn’t have one for 1966! The wedding must have been in 1967–the year You Only Live Twice was released. I guess I was paying more attention to movies like Valley of the Dolls or whatever surf movie was popular–like Endless Summer.

    This is why it is so important to write notes! Like those photos you have–dates on the back or anything like that can mean so much to future generations.

  27. Louise LaBianca says:

    One more comment to SEAN K: The photo in Rosemary’s wallet was of Frankie’s junior high school graduation. He tells that in his testimony of August 26, 1970. Sadly, I never saw him after the murders as our two different sides of the family were broken apart–and he passed away a few years ago.

    On a cheerier note, I like very much to talk about my memories here and I do believe some good will come out of it–not sure what yet exactly but time will tell.

  28. Sean K. says:

    Well Louise, I’m absolutely fascinated by your recollections, so rest assured, they do me a lot of good! Thanks again for your kind words and for sharing. After your last post I decided to educate myself more about your family by reading the biographies on this site. Of course, besides being both saddening and maddening, I was immediately captivated by these life stories! Your dad was part of Tom Brokaw’s “greatest generation” and Rosemary was a chic entrepreneur. I’m glad she got along well with you kids. It was a pleasure to read because I never really knew their backstory. Again, it’s hard for me to wrap my mind around your loss! To be a 13 year old girl so suddenly and shockingly thrust into that situation. It sends shivers down my spine. I so admire your courage in coming on here and interacting with the likes of me!
    On the topic of the bookcase, I also found the skull intriguing and wondered how it might fit in. Funny now, when you consider how something like that would seem commonplace in the room of a teenage boy. I can attest to that! I remember you talking about Frankie in a previous post. Now I feel a kinship to him as I have always been a huge 007 fan. I’m sorry to hear of his recent passing and that the family splintered after the tragedy in 1969. It’s none of my business, so I would never presume to ask you why, but I can certainly understand how anything is possible under those circumstances. It sounds like poor Frank was a troubled soul. Aside from the loss of his mother and stepfather, I’m sure the fact that he himself could have easily been a victim weighed heavily upon him. And if he was the one who discovered them, my god, how does a kid begin to deal with that?! Regarding the gym photo, I will see if I can find Frank’s testimony that you have referenced. I see they have the trial transcripts on here as well. It’s really an amazing resource!
    Incidentally, on a lighter note, it’s possible you may have seen Thunderball on the day of the family wedding. It was released around Christmas of ‘65 but was one of the biggest hits of 1966.
    Louise, I feel like we are kindred spirits in our love for nostalgia and the films of yesteryear. I do so enjoy hearing from you!

  29. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you!

  30. Louise LaBianca says:

    The bidding is up to $40,000 now.

  31. Louise LaBianca says:

    Closing bid $127,000.

  32. Melanie says:

    Just don’t like this…I’m with Debra!

  33. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Imagining how they proved the authenticity of the door. Faded blood perhaps? Barely see the outline of the “P” in “pig”? Black fingerprint powder maybe? Sell tickets to see “the” murder door and recoup a hundred grand?

    Sick twists.

  34. Stephen says:

    Massive jump in price. Probably someone well known as a collector of this kind of thing. Speculation on my part but seems to be shortly after Van Houtens release which could be for capitalising on public interest. On the other side of this nice to see some sharing of memories here.

  35. Rebecca O. says:

    In a different universe as they say, I hope Roman was the one that won the bidding for the door. I hope he gets that door and takes an axe to it and uses that wood in a bonfire. Rest in peace Sharon.

  36. Paul says:

    There is an error in the Julien’s auction listing.

    I quote …

    “The home found its final resident in 1992 when Nine Inch Nails member Trent Reznor rented it while working on his sophomore album, Downward Spiral. Creating an at-home studio. Reznor recorded the album and lived in the home until having a conversation with Tate’s younger sister, in which he had an epiphany. In a later interview, Reznor shared of his encounter, “She [Debra Tate] lost her sister from a senseless, ignorant situation that I don’t want to support. When she was talking to me, I realized for the first time, ‘What if it was my sister?’ I thought, ‘Fuck Charlie Manson. I don’t want to be looked at as a guy who supports serial-killer bullshit.’ I went home and cried that night.”

    The younger sister who confronted Trent Reznor was Patti, not Debra.

  37. Louise LaBianca says:

    PAUL: Thank you for your kind words. I always appreciate hearing when people find something new or interesting about things that happened so long ago in regards to this case. You see, the media at that time focused almost exclusively on the Manson “family” and pretty much ignored victims’ family members unless it was directly about the murders themselves. Of course, this was one of the reasons we didn’t seek out interviews because we honored our father and stepmother’s memory by talking about their lives. It changed somewhat when my mom went on the talk show circuit for awhile in the 90s but it’s a bit of a different perspective, given that she knew my dad ever since he was 14 or 15! Her first visit to the Waverly Dr house was in 1940 when the LaBianca family–my grandparents, my dad and his two older sisters, Stella and Emma–had just moved in. I must say, if you do have an opportunity to visit L.A. and go by the house, personally I find that it doesn’t have the same look at all from the outside. I guess I can understand why they put up those gates and added some kind of terrace or something, but yuck! Much better when the grassy sloping hill was there, and we all used to go rolling down in our Easter Sunday best as kids.

    Then the murders in 1969. I never went inside the house again, although I have driven by a few times and saw the renovations online when it went up for sale recently.

    I find that there are still so many things–nuances, as one commentator said–which add depth and meaning for further discussion. For example, when you bring up it was Patty, not Debra, who spoke with Trent Reznor about the Cielo Drive house. That is an important nuance many people, myself included, would not know.
    I admire both of them for speaking out; I’m sure it was heart-rending. It’s not my style to approach people about what they might do with the Waverly Dr house, even when Zak Bagans actually bought it–that was weird but all I wrote to him, via Facebook, was let me know what happens (he never wrote back, lol! probably thought I was a crackpot). I was curious in a way, that’s it.
    So when you get to southern California again, I hope you check out the major changes in Newport Beach while you are there! I spent about half my life or more in the area, starting at age 8 and I try to visit once or twice a year. Luckily, the main roads are still the same so I don’t get lost! but many of the cute little beach cottages on Balboa Peninsula are long gone.

  38. Louise LaBianca says:

    PAUL: Dumfounded about LVH parole? Not really. My cousins, who went to several parole hearings over the years, pretty much told me that day was coming. I’ve been somewhat queasy and uncomfortable about it, but I’m dealing with it in my own private way. Like I said, I learned long ago in my family to focus on their lives and not too much in the way they died. That helps me alot from a spiritual perspective.

    • Kim says:

      I just hope that you guys somehow feel supported by us that are on the forums. I can’t explain either why I’ve always been fascinated with and have followed this over the years. It’s an overwhelming sense of tragedy that gets me that such average people picked at random went through this. Well best to all which probably sounds trite- it’s hard to know what to say given the magnitude of everything that happened

  39. Paul says:

    LOUISE: Thank you so much for your replies to me, and for sharing your thoughts and feelings. I really appreciate your insight.

    I agree with your comment about the nuances that add depth and meaning for further discussion. You have a good way of describing things. This site is a great learning resource for all of us. We all have differing levels of knowledge of what happened in 1969. You bring personal experience which is a whole new level and I thank you for your recollections. I totally get what you mean about focusing on the lives of your father and stepmother, rather than on how they died. It’s how I feel about Sharon. I never dwell on details of how she died but instead take solace from knowing about her as a person, not even as a movie star, if that makes sense?

    As regards my point about Patti being the one who confronted Trent Reznor, she also launched a national boycott against Geffen Records after Guns N’ Roses, which records on the Geffen label, refused to remove a song written by Manson from its then new album, “The Spaghetti Incident?”

    Patti’s description of Sharon in a 1994 interview with the LA Times is how I always want to remember her.

    ““My sister was everything to me,” said Tate, 36. “She was so sweet and such a gentle soul. She was a movie star and beautiful, and in my eyes she was just so big. There wasn’t anything I wouldn’t have done for her.”

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-10-vw-10404-story.html

    Although my personal focus is on Sharon, I never forget to honour the memories of the other victims. It’s fitting that the atrocities perpetrated by the Manson clan, on those two nights of carnage, is referred to as Tate/Labianca and not just Tate.

    I know a lot about Cielo Drive but not so much about Waverly Drive. Thanks to your recollections, shared on here, I am learning more about the Labianca family.

    I look forward to revisiting Southern California. I’m sure it’s changed a lot since I was last there.

  40. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Louise: The grace you bring is admirable, a level we all can aspire to reach. As you said earlier, it took you years of practice and knowing myself, I won’t live long enough to get there. I’m cynical when it comes to our justice system, so the best I can do is try and when that fails, I give it to God.

    Paul: Interesting about Patty Tate. Is it me or does she seem to be lost in the shuffle of time? We hear much about Debra Tate, yet people forget Patty’s legacy that she inherited after Doris’ death. Makes me wonder about the Tate family dynamics as to why Patty took the baton and not Debra, who was older. Perhaps that issue is why there seems to be animosity against Debra.

  41. Paul says:

    happydaysarehereagain: It was Paul Tate who asked Patti to take up the baton following the death of Doris in 1992. Debra was 5 years older than Patti but there were some issues, family dynamics as you so eloquently put it, that caused a rift between Paul and Debra. Patti died in 2000 and Paul Tate passed away in 2005, leaving Debra as sole beneficiary of the Sharon Tate Estate.

    Patti was incredibly like Sharon in having the same gentle nature. Debra is not so much my cup of tea but I know Sharon wouldn’t countenance me being critical of her so I give her all due respect and to her credit she has continued the work of her mother and younger sister to this day.

    Patti was married to Don Ford, a former basketball player with the LA Lakers and Cleveland Cavaliers, with whom she had 3 children. When they divorced, Patti returned to live with Doris and Paul. She had a long term relationship with Alisa Statman which endured until her death.

    Alisa and Patti’s daughter Brie Ford have authored the book Restless Souls which is constructed from unpublished memoirs of Paul, Doris and Patti, which were written independently of each other. The book has not gone down well with Debra who basically rubbishes it as fantasy. Debra also hates that the book credits Brie Ford under the name of Brie Tate. I have found the book to be interesting but it’s not possible for me to judge how much poetic licence was employed within the writing. Nevertheless it’s an interesting piece of work.

    One thing I don’t understand with Debra is why she hasn’t had her father’s ashes interred in the family plot at Holy Cross Cemetery. I’m mindful of Sharon giving me a stern look not to say any more. I do wonder what Debra’s plans are for her own funeral and whether she envisages being interred with the family or if she is harbouring some bitterness over something from the past? I pray for her to do the right thing, whatever that may be.

  42. Louise LaBianca says:

    KIM: Yes, that is very nice to know! Support is an elusive quality in “real life.” I mean, people get tired of hearing about it or they don’t know what to say. This type of forum works great for me. Thank you 🙂

  43. Louise LaBianca says:

    PAUL: I recall that whole Spaghetti Incident album with Guns and Roses, but I did not know Patti Tate stood up against Geffen Records. That is interesting!

  44. Sean K. says:

    I had a feeling it would go for a lot more than those early bids. I used to sell movie posters on eBay about 20 years ago and I remember I had an original Dirty Harry 40×60 listed. For days it sat around $100/150. Then at the very last second of the auction it jumped to $1500! I was shocked, albeit very pleased. Small potatoes comparatively, but you get my drift. I don’t know how these bidders do it. They have a certain knack and very fast fingers!

    It would be interesting to know who bought it and what they plan to do with it. Apart from its obvious notoriety in connection with the crime, just think how many Hollywood luminaries twisted that knob and passed over that threshold through the years! Lillian Gish, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda, Doris Day, Dyan Cannon and Candace Bergen just to name a few. Not to mention the short time Sharon and Roman lived there and hosted their mod late-sixties cocktail parties! Peter Sellers, Jane Fonda, Warren Beatty and Mia Farrow were certainly part of that crowd.

    I recently learned that the actress Olivia Hussey moved into the house just five weeks after the tragedy. Now that one is beyond me! Sends shivers.

    • Bob says:

      Yes, Olivia Hussey moved into the guest room/Gibby Folger-Voytek Frykowski room. She was a client of Rudy and, when Rudy moved back into the main house, he offered the spare room to her. According to Olivia, her (at the time) boyfriend was actor Christopher Jones and one evening just after she had moved to 10050 Cielo, right after Halloween, 1969, there was a knock at the front door.
      It was after 11PM and she wasn’t expecting anyone at that hour. But it being the 60’s, it seems everyone was up for a party; planned or not. But before she could answer the knock at the recently scrubbed door, there was a knock on her bedroom window. Walking back to her room, she saw it was Jones. Speaking thru the open window (even though this was Beverly Hills, Rudy hadn’t sprung for central A/C), she could also tell he had been drinking.
      Letting him in (thru the door), he asked her who else was home to which she said it was just her. It was then that Jones punched her, knocking her to the living room floor. He proceeded to drag her by her hair to the first room he came to; her room.
      For the next hour he alternated beating her and raping her. When Jones heard the gate bell clang, he quickly got dressed and pushed his way past Rudy, who had just returned after a night out with friends.
      FYI: Her huge role in the very bad Fellini film, “Romeo and Juliet” is–technically–child porn. Hussey was just 15 years old when she was cast and 16 when the camera’s rolled.
      And, yes, the sex in the film was real.

  45. Sean K. says:

    Just a quick word, I composed my last comment on a flight to Honolulu last night and didn’t submit it until this morning. There have been many more posts added since I first saw the news about the sale of the door. That being said, I just wanted to apologize if the comment seems insensitive and out of place compared to all the beautiful sentiments that are being expressed here!

  46. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: Good to see you’re back–will now read your longer post!

  47. Louise LaBianca says:

    You’re inspiring me to get back on eBay, lol! Even though it’s a lot of work and time invested, one meets some very interesting collectors online.

  48. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: You posted a link on the LVH thread of your mom being interviewed. She speaks really well. I enjoyed listening to her. I also found photo of you with your dad. I know you’re proud of him and rightly so. He looks proud of you too.

    I see another Paul posting on the LVH thread so I’ll include my surname to avoid confusion.

  49. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you, PAUL JAMES. Good plan to add your surname!

  50. Louise LaBianca says:

    PAUL JAMES: The photo with my dad was taken in 1966 at my sister’s high school graduation from Newport Harbor high school in Newport Beach.

    • Louise LaBianca says:

      That was my nerdy glasses-wearing phase, lol! But really great memories and does depict something I wanted to share with any readers and, like they say, a picture tells a thousand words. Anyway, my dad was always very encouraging of my school studies and progress. He sent me to really good private schools, the ones that were academically challenging but also very well-rounded with athletic activities. Not parochial schools, mind you–more of the progressive type schools that taught us how to think for ourselves and embrace individuality, with sports having a key position in the curriculum. He was not encouraging of me running wild at the beach even though everyone else was (!) and I stayed home alot reading etc. But living in Newport Beach was also great fun in the summer. Sports and swimming etc.

      Those were his interests, too. My older siblings also had these advantages in sports and academia, with alot of trips to the Dodgers games as I recall (I never got to go, too young or Mom kept me home with my younger half-sister, all good). Oh my I am really rambling tonight! Yes. Very proud of who my dad was. An amazing person who fit in a whole lifetime of memories that some people experience in 80 years, while his ended at age 44.

      It’s really nice to talk about it. Thank you 🌞

  51. Louise LaBianca says:

    One more, PAUL JAMES: My mom’s interviews are definitely interesting and she always had a good strong voice. There are more of the interviews out there somewhere, but I haven’t found them all yet–some are better than others. You know, it depends alot on the types of questions the interviewer asks. I especially like one where she is sitting at the Balboa Bay Club sharing photos of my dad’s service in the military; their wedding photo with him in uniform. Not sure if that one is posted here on Cielodrive or not but I will check!

  52. Louise LaBianca says:

    y6uTRDsyER1sEsp_

  53. Louise LaBianca says:

    That link didn’t work. Here is one more time:
    https://youtu.be/NJBzSoAYgXc?si=ia1pnVNNhuS_1rGI

  54. Louise LaBianca says:

    HDAHA: Speaking of Patti Tate, she is in the clip listed above. Many have probably seen this one already–the 25 year point in 1994.

  55. Louise LaBianca says:

    HDAHA: As far as grace goes, I must humbly and honestly tell you that I have been through nearly every stage of grief behavior imaginable over the years– you know, denial (disbelief), anger, bargaining, acceptance. I left one out, can’t remember which one. How about shock, fear, grief? Lord knows. I gave my mom a very difficult time over the years, I was anything but graceful sorry to say. It was hardest in the first few years and I couldn’t believe it when the publicity ramped up like it did. As a young adult, I was very fortunate to be in a family (my in-laws) with very positive spiritual beliefs and way of life. Now I am with a man who also focuses so much more on spiritual growth every day, really lives it while I’m still just winging it! It’s not a contest. Everyone grows and learns at their own pace. Not preaching here just sharing my thoughts. I will be 68 years old soon and that sounds like a good age to work on a graceful attitude, and my grown kids agree!

  56. Louise LaBianca says:

    Here’s an example, I would go to my mom’s apartment where all of her walls were lined with photos of my dad and other members of the LaBianca family, around age 20 and beyond. I would completely ignore them and refused to talk about anything, rejecting her persistence and going into silent mode or at times just walk out to the patio for some air. They all pretty much accepted my behavior 🤔

  57. Louise LaBianca says:

    “They all” includes my siblings and their spouses and children. Love them all dearly but not sure if they understood me!

  58. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Paul: Thank you for all the information concerning Debra Tate and the Tate family dynamics. I’ve much reading to do and rabbit holes to dive headfirst in, so again, thank you. For a parent to disinherit their child, well, it must be pretty bad. Most families have their skeletons in the closet and I’ve no doubt the Tate family had theirs. Difference being none being as exposed to public scrutiny during horrible loss. I really hope there was a measure of forgiveness between them, but it seems there was none to be found…even at the end of Mr. Tate’s life. Truly tragic.

    Louise: The 25th anniversary seems like yesterday to me. Thank you for the link to refresh my memory; Patty looked so much like Sharon–haunting. Oddly enough I was watching Mind Hunter (Netflix) and I was on the episode with Manson/Watson. Not only did they not show LVH’s photo, but they also ignored the LaBianca murders and focused mainly on Tate. My first reaction was thinking of you and how that may be in itself another pain to deal with: ignoring your family loss. It’s akin to OJ Simpsons murders: Nicole Brown Simpson and “friend”. That “friend” had a name damn it! To be wary of publicity yet knowing respect is never paid by even mentioning your loved one’s names…. like they’re an afterthought in the public arena.

    Hope I’m explaining myself clearly as I’m not finger wagging. Indeed, everyone has their own way to handle grief and loss. My own coming to terms moment happened when I was in my 40’s. Hearing family discussions as a child made me angry as I never understood it and when it was in front of me, I would ignore and brood. Tucking all that emotion into a little box and placing it back in my mind where it lay dormant for decades. Funny how it manages to creep in and expose itself, demanding reconciliation. Not easy with privacy, so I can only imagine the public scrutiny had to be for you and your family. That’s why I admire your grace so much and appreciate your participation here.

  59. Louise LaBianca says:

    HDAHA: I wanted them to ignore the family, fine with me! We’re not celebs–we’re like workhorses, lol! No glitz and glitter here. As a group, the LaBianca family basically just worked those grocery stores like there was no tomorrow. What’s to talk about in the media limelight? Nada. My uncle Dana (Mom’s brother) even went so far as to say the LaBianca’s were “boring” (though he did respect them and certainly never minded when they helped him out financially). What a life eh? As Mom would say.

    All kidding aside, I can see you understand about the brooding factor. Thank you and have a great day 🌞

  60. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: I really enjoyed reading your post about the photo of you and your dad, reminiscences of your schooldays and general upbringing. It was a post filled with happy memories. Thank you for sharing.

    I watched the video of your mom showing us those lovely photos and talking about your dad. I was struck by the obvious affection she still had for him. As she said, if they had not divorced, it could have been her on that night instead of Rosemary.

    Your mom speaks so well.

  61. Louise LaBianca says:

    Glad to hear it, PAUL JAMES–thank you!

  62. Louise LaBianca says:

    One more. This one shows my mom and nephew actually going through the house decades after the murders, c. 1991.
    https://youtu.be/nhxNSd9MRvQ?si=u7dG-_5tWxOe_UCr

    • Paul James says:

      Louise LaBianca: Your mom was very brave, and your nephew, to go back inside the house. It’s kind of fascinating and scary.

      That’s an interesting theory; that Manson chose the two houses as the places where he was told ‘no’.

  63. Sean K. says:

    It’s been fascinating reading these posts this past week! This particular thread (concerning the door) has been rife with interesting tidbits, anecdotes, etc. Louise, of course it’s always a pleasure. And Paul, I’m glad you’ve decided to chime in and share some of your experiences. I happened upon this site about a month ago after googling William Garretson, the 10050 caretaker. I was curious about his status and learned here that he had passed away some years ago. I had no idea I’d be coming back here on a regular basis to examine “the latest” and touch base with you all. It’s nice to know there are so many out there that feel the need to do the same.

    In regards to you Paul, forgive me, but did I miss something? Were you an acquaintance of Sharon’s? You give such a loving and personal tribute to her and seem to have so much inside knowledge about the whole Tate family. And what a tragic family it is! There’s so much I wasn’t aware of, especially regarding Debra and her struggles. I checked out the links you provided and gleaned those blogs to the extent that I could endure it! Wow, I didn’t realize how controversial a figure Debra Tate was and apparently still is. The general tone of those sites proved to be a tad too dark for me, however. These posters seem like career “murderologists” who feel they have poetic license to unleash ugly diatribes about people and circumstances they aren’t even privy to. Debra sounds like a very troubled and complex individual indeed, but I would certainly be willing to cut her a measure of sympathy and understanding. When you stop to consider what she and Patti endured at such a pivotal time in their young lives, so similar to Louise’s situation, it seems irresponsible to pass judgement. I just couldn’t relate to all that destructive vitriol. What’s the point? After spending some burdensome time over at those blogs I felt the need to seek refuge back here, where the sentiments, and the people, seem decidedly warmer!

    Coincidentally Louise, one of the links you provided (thank you by the way), led me to the archive footage of Sharon’s funeral. What a truly sad, almost unbearable, spectacle to behold! I watched it several years ago, but in light of these conversations about the Tate family, I thought it timely to rediscover. It’s almost surreal to watch, especially since it is silent. Like watching an old home movie, except not for the typical reason. It’s like a horror movie in its context. People milling about like zombies, the same ashen shades of disbelief and grief on their faces. The celebrities interspersed among the onlookers and the clergy. And then, of course, the poor family members. Doing their level best to hold it together, having already cried a million tears in the previous few days. Doris, bless her heart, projects an image of strength and composure, accepting the onrush of hugs, and comforting Roman as he collapses in her arms. He still had more funerals to attend that day. But it was really the images of Debra and Patti that tugged so relentlessly at the heartstrings. Clad in their stylish miniskirts, in stark resemblance of their beautiful, fallen sister. Think of their shock. A few days earlier they were sitting on top of the world. Their sister was a glamorous movie star and they, with their friends, had personal access to this storybook world. In a few weeks they would be welcoming their first nephew, and the years ahead filled with extraordinary promise. Now, on this bright August day, there was only loss and emptiness and a silver casket.

    Sorry to have been so maudlin here (and characteristically long-winded) but I think my point is, take it easy on Debra! She didn’t ask for her station in life. Like Louise and all of the victims families, it was thrust upon her..

    Oh, and Louise, I would love to see that picture of you and your dad! Where can I find it?

  64. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: I shared the photo in an article I wrote for the Sacramento Bee a couple of months ago. I will look it up and send you the link to the photo, taken in 1966 at my older sister’s high school graduation.

  65. Louise LaBianca says:

    https://sports.yahoo.com/leslie-van-houten-murdered-dad-120000176.html

    More later, starting a new job today (not writing, unfortunately, but it’s an outdoor job working for my son so he can write more! all good)

  66. Paul James says:

    Sean K: It’s a pleasure to read your posts and I apologise if my posting those links about Debra sent you into a dark place. I felt somewhat guilty for posting them because they are not my words or thoughts. I don’t dislike Debra but in the great scheme of things she’s not my cup of tea. She is still to this day an admirer of Roman and back in the day I think she was somewhat jealous of Sharon. I wish that the name Polanski was not associated with Sharon and in my thoughts she is always Sharon Marie Tate.

    I haven’t knowingly met Sharon in this life, although it’s possible our paths crossed in London in the mid 60’s. I do feel a strong connection with her and maybe in time I will find the right words to explain why. It has nothing to do with being a fan of Sharon the movie star. It’s a lot deeper than that. Who could not fall in love with that smile?

    Credit to George Smith for this video of Sharon at Jay Sebring’s house …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip1s-BNPL9M

    There’s a song called ‘Days’ that was released in 1968 by The Kinks. One line in the lyrics perfectly encapsulates how I feel about Sharon …

    And though you’re gone
    You’re with me every single day, believe me x

    https://americansongwriter.com/behind-the-song-the-kinks-days/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ih8y8arB7s

    I love Sharon Marie Tate and she knows it because I tell her every night before I go to sleep.

  67. Paul James says:

    Don’t worry, nurse will be along shortly to increase my medication!

    I mentioned in an earlier post that Patti Tate confronted Trent Reznor about him using 10050 Cielo Drive as a recording studio for his album The Downward Spiral. She felt he was trying to profit from the death of her sister. Trent himself said that he was trying to harness the negative energy.

    This is a video of Nine Inch Nails recording ‘Broken’ inside the house. It’s heartbreaking to think they were doing this in the exact spot where Sharon and Jay were murdered.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei5beVEjwI

  68. Paul James says:

    Kate Van Buren was the former girlfriend of James Woolley.

    She recently posted a video taken at 10050 Cielo Drive during the time that Trent Reznor was living there.

    She says, “In the early 1990’s James stayed at 10050 Cielo Drive in Benedict Canyon. He was the keyboard player in Nine Inch Nails and they were writing and recording their album, the Downward Spiral inside the home.

    James stayed in the maid’s quarters, which had a possible paranormal quirk. Every night, at 3:33 am, the closet door in the small bedroom would pop open. He put his suitcase and furniture in front of the door to prevent it from opening, but no matter what he did, at 3:33 am, the door opened. I didn’t really believe him until I experienced the phenomenon for myself. ”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_KRWMnfEoY

  69. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: I remember the week of the funeral services well. I, too, have only recently come across the videos of Sharon Tate’s funeral and it is definitely a poignant reminder of tragic circumstances in youth. Debra and Patti were just children, really, miniskirts and all. The services for Leno and Rosemary were equally as surreal and strange, with hundreds of people in attendance from all over the community. No photos or videos were taken as far as I know. I remember they had me wearing a dark blue, swiss-dot dress with ruffles around the hemline while everyone else was in black. My sister thought it was unnecessary for me to wear black since I was “only 13” still.

    I have never liked funerals since. Even the ones that are more modern and like a celebration of the person’s life instead of the somber Italian Catholic traditions– and all in Latin, no less. I won’t even go into the theatrics of my mom’s when she reunited with the LaBianca family on that day, having left the family 12 years previously. They were all quite emotional as one would expect. I just stood around watching, still in shock and not really feeling like talking to anyone.

    But now, all these years later I seem to have become a real chatterbox like I was as a kid three years old (I have home movies to prove it, lol! I was a bossy little girl but in a fun way, not bratty). But it is kind of sad, I really should pay my respects at the place where my Dad was interred. I just always thought it was unusual for someone to be laid to rest in a mausoleum but those were my grandmother’s wishes. But I think I am finally brave enough to go back and have a nice prayer.

  70. Louise LaBianca says:

    Just for clarification purposes; there were actually 2 services. One, on the night of Friday, Aug. 15, 1969 was the Catholic rosary for both Leno and Rosemary. There were so many people in attendance, I heard from my cousins later they couldn’t even get into the services–standing room only. I was seated up in the front with my grandmother and siblings. The 2nd service on Saturday, Aug. 16, 1969 was for Leno only per Rosemary’s children’s wishes to have her remains cremated.
    Everything was done in utter solemnity and respect. Just for the record.

  71. Louise LaBianca says:

    One more recollection I think is noteworthy, at least to me. The dark blue swiss-dotted dress I wore was from Rosemary’s shop, the Boutique Carriage. She had given it to me for Christmas.

  72. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: You should go pay your respects at the place where your Dad was interred. You ‘are’ brave enough to go back and have a nice prayer.

    And by the way, you are not the forgotten Manson victims, far from it. I love Sharon but that doesn’t mean I don’t care about you and your family.

  73. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you! No worries about that, PAUL JAMES. I don’t feel like people have forgotten my dad and Rosemary at all. I won’t let them, lol!

    All kidding aside, I remember the terrible shock of hearing about Sharon Tate in a personal way as many people did. For me, it was the memory of her role as Jennifer in Valley of the Dolls–a movie I’d seen several times at our local theatre the year before. She truly was a special person. I love watching some of her interviews online all these years later. I think she exudes an innocence that has been lost over the decades. That is most likely true of all the victims if you think about it, which is mainly notable with Sharon because she was photographed and interviewed often. Jay Sebring’s nephew made a documentary called Cutting to the Truth that is definitely worth watching. He, too, seemed more innocent than your average 21st century guy. Not really sure about the “others” as they say but I am fascinated with Abigail Folger’s life and times.

    Can you tell? I am a history buff and I know we all have much to learn when we study the lives of people and their family histories.

  74. happydaysarehereagain says:

    Louise, Sean, Paul J: Enjoyed reading your thoughts with all the idiosyncrasies. I have a question for you, well, really to anyone reading. How much stock do you put into paranormal research? I have a memory I’ll share with the risk of seeming an idiot lol

    I believe the show was in the 70’s with Leonard Nimoy and it was called In Search Of. It was about catching Sharon Tate’s voice from beyond during an EVP session over a particular blouse she wore in a film. The wardrobe lady (lack of term) presented two blouses, but she knew the answer, and on this EVP, Sharon Tate supposedly chose the correct blouse by naming the color.

    Has anyone else out there recall this? Am I insane or did this happen only in my young, impressionable mind?

  75. Paul James says:

    HDAHA: I can’t help you with the 70’s show you mention. However, if you have an interest in the paranormal, particularly with reference to Cielo Drive, then you should take a look at David Oman’s channel. I’m open minded about paranormal research but it’s not something I particularly focus on. David wrote a book called The Ghosts of Cielo Drive. He’s an interesting character …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XKYoEAsmE

    There’s an extensive interview with David in this video …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vts-0fXYt-E

    A very recent visit to Cielo Drive shows the gates at the end of the drive open. Usually you can only see the gates closed. You may have difficulty with the accent as he is from North Wales. He mispronounces the address but it’s worth a viewing to see the open gates at the end of the drive, Sharon’s grave at Holy Cross Cemetery, Culver City, and Vincent Bugliosi grave.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnVOqYWwOyY

    • happydaysarehereagain says:

      Thanks Paul J, appreciate the time you took to post the links. I’m not a believer in paranormal, but I can say there are things that have no explanation. The memory I shared was on a tv show in the early to mid 70’s, and I’ve attached it to In Search Of. Hope others out there have seen or know about what I’ve laid out.

  76. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: Good to know that you won’t let people forget your dad and Rosemary.

    Sharon does exude an innocence. This short interview on the set of Valley of the Dolls is one I particularly like.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL-ZRs3PHLc

  77. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: I have just spent some time reading your posts on the manson blog site. You spoke at length back in August and answered lots of questions about your experiences and yourself. Your mom wrote a book and I wonder if you will ever feel inclined to write your own life story in book form?

    I’m sorry now that I said I thought it was a good thing that the murders were labelled as Tate-LaBianca and not just Tate but you say that blew your anonymity. My reasoning was that your family should not be forgotten. You should tell me if I say the wrong thing. Don’t lose that voice of yours.

    I know it’s your birthday this month so let me wish you a happy birthday for when it occurs or retrospectively if it’s already gone. Sharon was 6 years older than me and you are 6 years younger than me so I’m kind of in the middle between the two of you.

  78. Louise LaBianca says:

    Thank you, PAUL JAMES for your thoughtful words. I will keep up with my writing and see where it leads! I have many unfinished projects that need to be organized and put together in a coherent way–i.e. editing, developing ideas further and so forth.

    Something I would like to explain about how I generally write in terms of THEN and NOW. THEN would be my younger self experiencing things like embarrassment or irritation when the Tate-LaBianca names were linked publicly to the Manson murders. NOW is my older self looking back and reflecting on “how it all turned out” more or less (we don’t really know that yet). Most of what I write spontaneously in these blogs is coming from THEN perspective. It’s an odd process but pretty interesting really–and I think there are a lot of writers here who know what I mean, including yourself and SEAN K. and many others so it’s like a writing community 🙂

  79. Louise LaBianca says:

    An important consideration in all my projects related to this case and subject will always be my family–privacy issues etc. So far I have the green light from my siblings as well as much encouragement to delve deeper into the history of Gateway markets, the family business started by our grandfather in the 1920s. That should keep me busy enough! And definitely in sync with my THEN and NOW theme.

  80. Sean K. says:

    Louise, you are a gift and I so enjoy these chats! Thank you so much for providing the link to your article and the lovely photo of you and your father. What a wonderful remembrance and yet another priceless piece of your story that helps us all better identify with the human aspects of this drama. I think we’re all grateful that you’ve become a “chatterbox” as you put it. I know it provides me impetus for coming back here.

    So, this morning I caught up with all the latest chatter and set about to offer a new entry into this dialogue we’ve all established. As usual it became a rather long-winded affair and as I sat down this evening to finish it I realized that it had all been lost to the oblivion of cyberspace! Oh well, you know what, it was too laborious anyhow. It was in response to your opinion piece and just got too bogged down in specifics of the crime. I just feel Louise that you’ve lived all this for so many years and what’s the point in dwelling on things that you already know all too well.

    That being said, I would, however, like to acknowledge your recollections of the funerals. Again, bless you for sharing such a personal and obviously devastating experience. Even after all these years, it can’t be an easy thing to revisit. The image of you sitting there in the blue dress that Rosemary gave you, trying to make sense of all the horror around you…it truly challenges the tear ducts! The fact that you can be so candid about it is a testament to your strength.
    From my angle, it’s yet another one of those lost moments in time that only your memory can shed light upon. Have no doubt, it means a lot.

    As Paul so thoughtfully mentioned, Happy Birthday! From the bios I read I believe it was 1955, right? And you were born shortly after your parents split up? Well, I guess it’s safe to say that they were friendly right up to the end of the marriage! I loved watching your mom talk about Leno. It’s plain to see that, despite going their separate ways, they maintained a lot of admiration for one another. I see an interesting parallel in our situations. Like you, I am the baby of three children. In contrast to you, though, my parents had separated when my sisters were little and apparently I was the “love child” who brought them back together! So go figure.

    Thanks again for the pic. It was nice to finally put a face to the voice. Even if it was 57 years ago!

  81. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: I would have been very interested to read your article in response to the opinion piece. Sorry to hear it got lost!
    The blue dress–actually navy blue so from a distance it looked like I was in black. The Swiss polka dot material had a rough feel to it which I can still remember to this day. I was thinking mostly about my dad and the suffering he went through that week, not too much about Rose in the beginning. But I remember a popular song that kept coming on the radio on the trips back and forth from Newport to L.A. “Smile a little smile for me, Rosemary; what’s the use in crying?” Something like that. All through the ordeal, I found great solace in listening to music so, believe me, that radio was on non-stop everywhere we went.

    Yes I am 3rd in birth order but my mom had a 4th child, Maurine, my half-sister who was a blondie. We were very close growing up, 3 years apart in age. Her dad, Bill, did not want her at the funeral for some reason. She was 11 and she later said she felt left out because of that. I could go on and on but probably should save it for another day. Thank you again for your thoughtful response!

  82. Louise LaBianca says:

    SEAN K: Here is the link to the song I was talking about: https://youtu.be/BR3xcZ-osqE

  83. Louise LaBianca says:

    I think the song was a good one for expressing bereavement at that time in my life. They kept playing it over and over which I thought was odd at the time. It has a sad quality, but also gives a sense of hope for the future.

  84. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: That song is beautiful and it strikes a chord with so many who have commented on the video.

    I wonder what your future life story will be called? The Girl in the Blue Dress?

    Yes this is a community of writers and thinkers. We can all learn from each other’s experiences. The young you and the now you will perceive things differently. You have had a lot of pain to process. I hope that talking about your life is helping you to bring better understanding to what has already passed and what is yet to come; I venture to suggest that the best is yet to come.

    Writing is naturally cathartic but it’s more than that, and I leave you to contemplate what that means for you. Each of us has our own unique way of looking at life, based on many factors, tangible and intangible. We walk our own path in order to get to where we are destined to be. On the way we meet fellow travellers who seek their own truth. There are mountains to climb and decisions to make when confronted by alternatives. Sometimes we have to backtrack and start again. It’s not always easy but it’s worth the effort.

    I hope you will grace us with your presence for a long, long time. It’s a pleasure to know you.

  85. Paul James says:

    You can occasionally see the scar on Sharon’s left cheek in this video. As I mentioned earlier, she acquired it when she was 6 years old, around he time I was born. Many in the industry thought she should have it removed but she said it was a part of who she is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UigKa_OemLg

  86. Paul James says:

    The only person to see Sharon in her casket was her dad.

    “The funeral director, stiffer than a five-star general, lifted the coffin lid, eyeballing me as if he were about to reveal a long-lost Rembrandt. What he actually revealed branded my heart. Sharon was in her favorite blue and white flowered dress. The studio artist who had done her makeup and hair created the illusion of sleeping life. I caressed her cheek, tracing a half-inch scar that she had acquired as a six-year-old. Everyone involved in guiding her acting career wanted her to have it removed. She wouldn’t hear of it. “It’s part of me,” she insisted, “it’s who I am.”

    Statman, Alisa; Tate, Brie. Restless Souls (Enhanced Edition) (p. 30). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

    I adore Sharon and that small scar is beautiful.

  87. Sean K. says:

    Louise! You know how to tug at my heartstrings! Thanks for the link to the song. I hadn’t heard that one in years. Not sure what became of Flying Machine. Perhaps this was a one hit wonder? What an era it was…that unique 60s groove! Something only people of our generation can truly appreciate. What’s more important, though, is the value of the memory and the fact that it gave you a measure of comfort during those trying hours. And yes, it seems as though the lyrics were speaking directly to you and your situation at the time. Music is so important to us all, the way it conjures memories and can represent a certain moment in our lives. Now, every time I hear this particular song, it will be difficult not to think of you!

    As far as my first draft yesterday, I was trying to respond to your reaction to the release of LVH and the ramifications it presented to yourself and the entire family. Since I discovered this site last month, I have made several comments on various threads. In one of them, on the subject of parole, I posed the question “How long is enough? Is fifty plus years enough?” I also questioned the hypocrisy of a justice system that releases some offenders, who have committed similarly horrendous crimes, much earlier than others. I was speculating that it was because of the fame and notoriety of this case that LVH was being kept behind bars. Does anybody really believe she’s a threat to society anymore? I think those of us who have followed this case over the years, knew that she would eventually be released.

    Then I got to know you. I got to share, with others on this site, the extraordinary experiences that you’ve been willing to impart through your memories and your thoughts. I thank you for that. You’ve definitely broadened my perspective and helped me to understand a really underserved aspect of all this: the families. It’s not that I didn’t realize this before, I just needed reminding. When even one life is taken in such a way, the repercussions are like a shockwave. Hundreds of other lives are either destroyed or forever altered. And as was evidenced by the tears of your nephew, as he and your mother toured the house, it even reaches down the generations. From my position you can ponder such things indefinitely, but when you actually hear it from one so closely associated with the events, it becomes a whole different ballgame. Which brings me to the point I guess I’m trying to make. I now regret making those earlier comments.

    While I have never considered myself an advocate for these people, I do believe the inconsistencies in our legal system should definitely be debated. I think it’s important, however, to weigh the circumstances of such an event. These killers were certainly complicit in the premeditation. Leslie admitting “I knew people were going to die” attests to this. She was raring to go. Tex and Katie had fresh memories from the night before so they too knew what was going to come down and were more than willing. They can all spend the rest of their days bemoaning Manson’s influence, drugs, disaffected youth, etc. But the bottom line is they all possessed that intangible element in their personalities that allowed them to kill. They were ruthless in their lack of mercy and savage in their actions. And their appalling behavior in the aftermath, from trial to incarceration, openly displayed their disregard for the victims and any responsibility for their actions. I can’t imagine how violated you and your family must have felt, not only because your loved ones were slain, but also because these animals loitered in the house afterward. Showering, eating, even petting the poor dog, all while your folks were laying there with gore on the walls!

    Perhaps no amount of time is long enough? How much time atones for this? I think I’ve come to the conclusion, Louise, that only you, and others like you, can make that determination. I don’t think we need to worry about Watson ever getting out. He was the enforcer who ensured nobody was left breathing. But I do have legitimate concerns about Krenwinkel. I sincerely hope for you, and for the sake of all the families, that it does not happen.

  88. Louise LaBianca says:

    I expect there will be alot of back and forth legal maneuvering before she gets out, if she does. Not my battle. Debra Tate and Anthony Dimaria are perfectly capable of handling that end of it to the best of their their abilities and experience. I didn’t know that until recently because, frankly, I wasn’t paying attention. I just automatically assumed they would never be considered fit for parole due to the severity of the crimes. Now I know the laws have been changed in California, not sure what year but recently, where they are focusing on whether or not an inmate is a current threat to society. Patricia Krenwinkle evidently has been a model prisoner for decades. You see where this is going? I do.

    So my battle is more of a personal one in that I must learn to accept the things I cannot change etc., the Serenity prayer as my younger son frequently reminds me. It’s a karmic lesson I need to learn in life as I generally have issues accepting these things. With age comes wisdom, so they say. I am very blessed to have two intelligent grown sons who understand me. My dad would have been very proud of them. I’m not saying this to evoke sympathy or anything like that. It’s just a statement of fact. Peace to all!

  89. Louise LaBianca says:

    And yes, I do believe the Flying Machine was a one-hit wonder group but I’ll let you know if I find out otherwise! There were alot of great songs in the summer of ’69.

  90. Louise LaBianca says:

    Also, I always remember my mom’s positive attitude even when faced with bad news. Of course she had her moments of drama and grief; I think more than her share over the course of 87 years. But she would often use positive sayings and music so, for example, she would break out a song like “You gotta have hope, all you need is just hope” probably a Bing Crosby song. Many times dating back to the WW II era, I’m sure. I still sing them to myself sometimes, which is very uplifting. Corny (one of my dad’s favorite words) but definitely lifts the spirits.

  91. Louise LaBianca says:

    Lol, the song I was thinking of was from “Damn Yankees,” 1958 movie and the actual lyrics are “You gotta have heart.” At least I remember the tune correctly!

  92. Paul James says:

    Louise LaBianca: ” Damn Yankees” was retitled “What Lola Wants” in UK, to avoid the use of the word ‘Damn’. Censorship of movies was rife back then. The Devil sings with glee in that same show/movie about all the bad things that occurred throughout history. The song is called “The Good Old Days”.

    Before the Manson family was identified as being behind the Tate/LaBianca murders, there was much media speculation of an occult connection. The news bulletin on the day of the Cielo Drive murders suggested such, referring to ‘a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite’.

    We have the official narrative, ‘Helter Skelter’ and Tom O’Neill debunking that in his book ‘Chaos’, focusing on MKUltra and Manson’s supposed involvement with the CIA.

    Weirdest of all, though, is a claim by John Todd that Sharon Tate was a sacrificial killing.

    A random killing by a fanatical hippie cult? Think again.

    According to Sharon’s friend, Shahrokh Hatami, Polanski did not want Tate to have his baby. Instead, he wanted her to get an abortion (blood sacrifice). She refused. She told him she was keeping her baby and there was nothing he could do about it. She wanted out of the occult Hollywood lifestyle, and did not want to raise her child in such an environment. A hit was put on her (and her friends who just happened to be there).

    Who would kill a beautiful actress- one who had the possibility of making studios millions of dollars- unless she wanted out.

    Former Illuminati member John Todd (of the Collins Illuminati bloodline- his real name was Lance Collins) breaks the silence of the real motive behind the Tate murders.

    Hollywood is cursed.

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
    Ephesians 6:12 KJB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTT_KxhYj20

    I do wonder why Tex Watson said he is the devil and come to do the devil’s work? Coincidence or is there something in this John Todd claim?

  93. Paul James says:

    I haven’t seen ‘Cutting to the Truth’ yet. It’s on my to-do list. You recommended it, Louise.

  94. Louise LaBianca says:

    Yes, it is an interesting perspective and quite a bit about Sharon as well, PAUL JAMES. I found it on YouTube.

  95. Louise LaBianca says:

    I don’t pay attention to some of the more far-out theories such as an occult connection.

  96. Louise LaBianca says:

    Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I like to collect records, movies and memorabilia. Here is a short video clip from some of my mom’s home movies, c. 1946. She is the one wearing a white headscarf, and my dad is wearing a light-colored sweater. Uncle Dana homecoming:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yLE1qrgWpKs

  97. Louise LaBianca says:

    They are at Union Station in L.A., and the house is in Highland Park where my maternal grandmother lived –a little slice of California history 🌞

  98. Paul James says:

    That clip is fascinating, Louise. Thanks for sharing.

  99. Louise LaBianca says:

    Glad I thought of sharing it!

  100. Sean K. says:

    What an awesome memento Louise! Your dad must have recently returned himself. Bless them both. If Dana was at Okinawa then he undoubtedly saw a lot of action. Think how many times that same scene was captured on home movies during those years! Thanks for sharing. Is that you narrating?

  101. Louise LaBianca says:

    No SEAN. My mom was narrating 🙂

    • Kim says:

      Wow. What wonderful memories. Thank you so much for sharing. I think it’s a blessing to have these videos and again thanks for sharing

  102. Louise LaBianca says:

    Seems to me my Uncle Dana was stationed in Okinawa soon after the war ended, as I recall he told us a few times over the years. My dad also stayed at his post in Europe several months after the war ended and was not happy about it, according to some of the letters he wrote (published in No More Tomorrows by Alice LaBianca).

  103. Louise LaBianca says:

    KIM: The one I shared is one of two clips I posted on YouTube a few years back. I have many more to go through, all narrated by my mom–I like them for the historical content and especially her narration, but there are a few privacy issues so I put that project on the back burner for awhile.

  104. Louise LaBianca says:

    Glad you like them, KIM! I love that they combine a nostalgic view of family members and history. The little voice you may have heard making comments in the video is my niece Alyssa, now in her 40s!

  105. Louise LaBianca says:

    I remember my mom enjoyed adding her choice of music to the scenes, too.

  106. Paul James says:

    Sharon was somewhat naive in believing that Roman would change his ways once they had a child. In the end she was angry with him when he was reluctant to return to their home as her pregnancy approached full term. How would he like it if the tables were turned and she slept with any man she wanted?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pETz4IMmeDU

  107. Paul James says:

    The door is an artifact that is inextricably linked to what happened on Cielo Drive in those dark days of August 1969. The same could be said of Jay’s salon, that is now on the market and could, potentially, be demolished by a new owner.

    This is a video of the interior as it is today, mixed with images from when Jay was working his magic at 725 North Fairfax Avenue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCM8IV4Ub9s

    I would also like to mention that, in August 1965, Sharon began providing financial support to Jay, as is evidenced by a letter she wrote to the William Morris Agency. I have a copy of the original document with Sharon’s signature.

    August 20, 1965
    William Morris Agency, Inc.
    151 El Cemino
    Beverly Hills, California

    Gentlemen:

    As an accommodation to me, l request that all monles
    which you may receive on my account be paid, after
    deduction of any commissions payable to you by me,
    to and in the name of Thomas Jay Sebring at Sebring’s
    International, 725 North Fairfax Avenue, Los Angeles,
    California 90046.

    You shall not be held responsible or in any way
    accountable for the disposition, by Mr. Sebring,
    of such funds. Your responsibility with regard to
    such funds shall end when a check payable to
    Mr. Sebring has been either delivered to him
    personally or deposited in the U.S. Mail addressed
    to him as indicated above.

    This authorization shall remain in full force and
    effect until you receive other instructions from me
    in writing.

    Very truly yours,
    SHARON TATE

  108. Billy says:

    Gosh I bet Winifred Chapman had her work cut out at Cielo… no air conditioning, questionable characters in and out all the time…

  109. Paul James says:

    There is a lot more to this story than Helter Skelter, which seems to be nothing more than a convenient cover story to hide the truth.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NWtgQrJuidc

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vVUkUhl919A

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