Dear Governor Gavin Newsom & California Attorney General Robert Bonta,
My name is Anthony DiMaria, nephew of Jay Sebring who was killed on the night of August 8, 1969 by the so-called Manson family. I am also a LaBianca family representative and have delivered impact statements at several Leslie Van Houten parole hearings in past years.
Just as Leslie Van Houten conspired, tortured and killed collectively with the Manson family- our families collectively suffer pain and loss caused by the crimes of Leslie Van Houten and her chosen Manson “family”.
For decades our families have been united and resolute in our fight for justice. We are bound by love to speak for our flesh & blood who lie in their graves… unable to speak for themselves.
In addition to these rare and egregious crimes, our families have been further impacted by legal twists and detours throughout the past fifty years-
First, the revocation of the original death sentences in 1972. In the aftermath of the decision, my grandparents and parents were promised by the Los Angeles District Attorneys’ Office & Los Angeles Police Department that none of the Manson killers would ever actually be paroled. The authorities emphasized that the reduced sentences of “Life with Possibility of Parole” were purely technical.
Decades later, pro-criminal legislation (Youthful & Elderly Offender Acts) was passed mandating early release consideration for all convicted criminals, including violent criminals.
Current Los Angeles District Attorney’s policy forbids all involvement and support from the LADA’s office at all Lifer – rapists’, molesters’, killers’, assassins’ – parole hearings. This directive strips victims & their families of their legal voice and representation in the parole process forcing victims of violent crime to fend for themselves.
On May 30, 2023 an appellate court trashed the executive authority of a duly elected Governor.
Governor Newsom & Attorney General Bonta, you might imagine yourselves in our skin as we are left dumbfounded, “Has the world gone mad?”
From where we stand, the justice system has been turned upside down where violent criminals are portrayed and treated as victims… while actual victims are disregarded and discarded like trash.
Victims’ rights are being swept under the rug, or more accurately, flushed down the toilet.
Governor, you’ve cited in your prudent decisions that Ms. Van Houten’s crimes meet the rare & extreme legal standards established In re Lawrence & In re Shaputis. You have provided evidence of Ms. Van Houten’s extensive pattern of minimization revealing her lack of insight into her crimes and current dangerousness.
In Ms. Van Houten’s own words:
May 28, 1998 Parole: “The autopsy report verifies that there were superficial stab wounds in the lower back of Ms. Labianca. I have consistently testified and taken responsibility for those…those wounds were post-mortem.” [p.53 ll. 14-22]
September 6, 2017 Parole: “I know it’s my responsibility that I allowed this to happen to me [p.210 ll.23-24]… I take responsibility that I allowed myself to follow him.” [p.212 ll. 1-2]
July 23, 2020 Parole: “He [Manson] put us in front of the circle and began to be critical, all geared toward dismantling our personalities and who we were [p.17 ll. 18-21]…He [Manson] was having us give up our personalities [p.18 ll.9-10]… Tex said, ‘Do something’ and handed me a knife and I stabbed Mrs. LaBianca in the lower torso, 16, 18 times [p.24 ll.1-3]…I believe that the things that made me weak and lost were ultimately used as manipulations against me in my conversations with Manson.” [p.29 ll.5-7]
November 9, 2021 Parole: “He [Manson] played every angle he could in any way he could to gain control and power over us [p.88 ll. 17-19]…[I stabbed] because Tex told me to.” [p. 45 l. 22]
Judges Helen Bendix and Victoria Gerrard Chaney’s interpretations are completely out of purview of the extreme, historic realities of Leslie Van Houten’s heinous actions and her extensive pattern of minimization, lack of insight into her crimes and the nexus of current dangerousness as defined in LAWRENCE & SHAPUTIS.
When this appellate court undermined the executive authority of a duly elected governor it set an extremely pernicious precedent for all cases involving violent crime not only in California, but throughout the United States.
The notorious nature of these crimes are additionally of grave concern should Ms. Van Houten be released. The inmate has had extensive involvement with the media throughout her incarceration on Larry King, with Diane Sawyer, a book titled THE LONG PRISON JOURNEY of LESLIE VAN HOUTEN are just a few examples.
Global interest and fascination in these matters is undeniable. It would be devastating to our families should Ms. Van Houten engage in any project generating profit for the convicted felon, not to mention the impact a Van Houten book or show would have on impressionable minds.
If Ms. Van Houten is released, it is our concern that the court’s decision will become a massive issue concerning public safety. The court is not only sending a reckless signal to at risk criminals, it also establishes a very dangerous precedent for early release of all violent offenders who might be perceived as “lesser” in their offences than the extreme bar set by Leslie Van Houten and her crimes.
This travesty of justice is a dagger in the heart of victim’s rights, especially in regards to violent crimes.
Governor Newsom, Attorney General Bonta- you are all we have left.
On behalf of Leno & Rosemary LaBianca, each Manson family victim and all victims of violent crime throughout the state of California- please do all in your power to reverse the appellate court’s catastrophic decision.
I bring to your attention a statement made by Leslie Van Houten’s longtime attorney Richard Pfeiffer on national television [INSIDE EDITION] immediately after the court’s decision: “The Governor is looking at votes, so he’s got the pressure of all these people who don’t know the facts.”
– Sadly, our families know all too well the facts of these crimes. We LIVE with the realities and facts of Leslie Van Houten’s diabolical actions.
The scales of justice and victims rights are in your hands. Your authority and leadership are the last defense which will determine between victim’s rights & justice or madness.
I thank you in advance for your care and prudence in this grave, significant matter.
Sincerely,
Anthony DiMaria
Hope it works!
I’m really sincerely sorry for you’re loss.
I have read all great things about your brother,and the other victims.
I’m disgusted in GOV. NEWSCOM,whom the whole world 🌎 fell on deaf ears of a “STUPID, IGNORANT JACKASS,AND COWARD WHOM FOOLISHLY LISTEN TO THE A.G.
FOR EVERYBODY’S INFO. I CALLED THE CLERK OF THE SUPREME COURT AND FOUND OUT THAT A PANEL OF 13 CA SUPREME COURT JUDGES WOULD’VE RULED ON THIS MATTER HAD A PETITION FOR REVIEW (TIMELY) BEEN FILED.
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THEY WOULD’VE AFFIRMED THE NUTTY DECESION OF THE 2ND DIST. COURT OF APPEALS.
SMALL PIANO MUSIC STILL BE ALIVE TODAY IF MADISON WHEN SHE WHAT’S HIS RECORD ALBUM BY THE BEACH BOYS AS IT APPEARS TO ME AFTER STUD Y IN THE FACE FOR ABOUT 50 YEARS NOW.
I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOUR BROTHER,AND ALL THE VICTIMS SINCE I FIRST SAW THE SHOW “HELTER SKELTER” WHEN I WAS 7 YEARS OLD.I’M NOW 57.
MY BROTHER HAD THE SHOW TURNED ON LATE AT NIGHT WHEN MY PARENTS WERE AT THE BAR GETTING DRUNK.
I noticed some STUPID JACK ASSES HAVE STATED THAT I CONTINUE TO GET ALL THE FACTS OF THE MANSON CASE WRONG. THAT IS PURE BULLSHIT!!!
I HAVE LIVED,AND SLEPT WITH THIS NUTTY CASE FOR (50 YEARS) SINCE AGE 7 BACK IN (1973).
IT’S A FACT THAT ROSEMARIE’S GRANDCHILD MARRIED CHARLES TEX WATSON,AND HAD I BELIEVE 3 OR 4 KIDS BY HIM,WHILE HE HAS BEEN IN PRISON,AND LATER DEVORCED HIM.
THEN A FEW YEARS OR SO AGO HER DAUGHTER WAS SLAUGHTERED IN DENVER BY A CONVICTED KILLER IN THE SAME METHOD THAT THE LIBIANCA’S WERE SLAUGHTERED.
IT IS ALSO A FACT THAT LESLIE PROFITTED BY COLLECTING $15 MILLION,AND $400K A YEAR IN ROYALITIES FOR BOOK DEALS,TV APPEARANCES,AND THE LIKES.
YOU JACKASS’S ARE NUTS THAT CONDEMN ME IN DECIDING JUST BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE THE TRUTH OF FACTS YOU DECLARE THEM FALSE,AND THAT ALL THE NEWS THAT YOU DON’T LIKE IS FAKE.
NO DOUBT YOU PROBABLY DON’T EVEN BELIEVE THAT MANSON WAS PART OF THE BEACH BOY’S.
THEY REFUSED TO GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR HIS RECORDED MUSIC UNTIL AFTER THE MURDERS OCCURED,BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T WANT TO BE KILLED BY MANSON,AND HIS CLAN.
THEY GAVE HIM $100K IN AẞSETS,AND A MOTORCYCLE.
I BET YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT THAT CUZ YOU HAVEN’T STUDIED THE CASE FOR 50 YEARS.
SO THAT BRONSON WAS A MEMBER OF THE CIA AND WHEN WE GOT A FREE PASS TO GET IN AND OUT OF PRISON CONSTANTLY.
HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN PRISON AT THE TIME THE MURDERS OCCURRED FOR VIOLATING PAROLE FOR GOING TO SAN FRANCISCO WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM HIS PAROLE OFFICER.
I meant to say MANSON BOT BRONSON WAS A MEMBER OF THE CIA.
Hi
Thank you for your comments. Respectfully I just want to say that people are allowed to have different points of you or believe different things in general. That’s life and it applies to everything not just this forum. My suggestion respectfully would be to just calm down. I understand that you were frustrated but there is no need for name-calling as well.. It’s hard to read your post because of the all capital letters so maybe that’s something to think about in the future. In any case thank you for your participation
This heartfelt letter is exactly what one would expect from a loving family member who is ONLY interested in keeping one of the people who helped kill their loved ones in prison. Family members don’t make parole decisions, nor should they, as they obviously cannot be objective. It’s easy to understand why family members feel as they do. But the facts are…..Leslie has met the criteria for parole MANY times over over many decades, so the decision on whether she should be paroled is actually a very simple one.
I am a member of the LaBianca family and I am growing weary of these types of comments… that is, victims’ family members cannot be objective and therefore should not be involved in parole hearings and decisions etc. Who, then, should be involved? The legal system keeps changing, as Anthony Dimaria clearly points out. Our family stayed out of the courtrooms for decades; I was a minor at the time of the murders and, yes, it changed the course of my life. I will never regret that people tried to protect me from the media and the truth when I was young. My father would have wanted that for me, I believe. Yet I still know everything I need to know and more than anyone else about the facts of my own family and whether or not we can be objective. We are an intelligent group; if you knew the history of the LaBianca family you would already know that. Please drop the argument that victims’ family members are not objective because nothing could be further from the truth. Thank you kindly.
L agree with you. I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m sure your parents were real dear sweet people.
I saw the movie HELTER SKELTER on TV when I was about 7 years old. I had no idea what the show was about.
My parents were at the bar have a good time getting drunk.
I will never understand why your sister married MANSON MURDERER CHARLES TEX WATSON,WHOM HELPED MURDER YOUR PARENTS ???
I have felt horrendous sorrow in my hart for the last 50 years for all the victims were brutally slaughtered.
Mr. Luckett, what makes you think Kristen Joan Svege is related to Louise LaBianca? She’s not related to the LaBianca’s.
Ms Labianca, do you still keep in touch with your former stepsister Suzanne LaBerge?. As you may know in the late 1980s, she became somewhat friendly with Charles Tex Watson. Then disappeared. I see on a website she’s involved with some nature conservation group up in northern California. Does she still feel the way that she does about Watson? I imagine she is probably still reeling from the death of her daughter, by the same way, her mother was killed.
First, Louise LaBianca – Thank you for sharing your insight with society. Your recent article was spot on and inspiring to me. Thank you for fighting for the memory of Leno & Rosemary…and justice for all the victims in these crimes. Your father’s spirit lovingly smiles on you. I stand with you and your family.
-which makes me, dare I say, NOT OBJECTIVE.
Billy Esquire, you are correct in that DiMaria’s letter is heartfelt and subjective. For centuries it has been established that objectivity in the empirical world is impossible. This applies to essentially every human being on the planet.
The mere act of capturing a picture eliminates objectivity as the frame excludes what exists beyond the image created.
Forgive the philosophical diversion but it speaks to Louise LaBianca’s brilliant critical point to “drop the argument that victims’ family members are not objective.” Pretty sure no one on this site is completely objective. Everyone seems to have a strong opinion for reasons known to them.
It seems curious that Richard Pfeiffer, a very outspoken Van Houten attorney (and entitled to be as he’s doing a job), receives little or no criticism for not being objective, certainly not as much backlash as the victims receive. But the victims’ family members are often criticized as being “vengeful” “angry” “not objective”, etc. etc.
I notice a lot of discussion about “following the law”. Specifically in this case. DiMaria’s letter cites two (LAWRENCE & SHAPUTUS), provides many direct examples relevant to these laws in Van Houten’s words and includes California legalities that are eliminating victims’ rights. The letter might not be “objective”, but it’s thorough.
It seems to me, that the victims’ perspective in the criminal justice system is just as crucial as the criminals’. That is why victims have the right to provide impact statements in parole hearings, thanks to Doris Tate.
Kudos to Cielo Drive for actually maintaining a very (as much as possible) objective platform.
Birdie Num Num,
Thank you for your thoughtful words of encouragement as well as the philosophical diversion–much appreciated!
That jerk governor is the whole reason California is so soft on criminals now. He has basically turned that state into a three ring circus! Hell, he’ll probably have a “Welcome Home Leslie” party at the governor’s mansion with John Waters co-hosting! These people don’t care one iota for victims or their rights! They also keep repeating ad nauseum that poor Leslie “just stabbed a dead body” which is a statement too sick for any more discussion on it.
This came out a few hours ago…..https://www.yahoo.com/news/leslie-van-houten-follower-cult-001520462.html
“California’s governor announced Friday that he won’t ask the state Supreme Court to block parole for Charles Manson follower Leslie Van Houten, paving the way for her release after serving 53 years in prison for two infamous murders.
In a brief statement, the governor’s office said it was unlikely that the state’s high court would consider an appeal of a lower court ruling that Van Houten should be released.
Newsom is disappointed, the statement said.
“More than 50 years after the Manson cult committed these brutal killings, the victims’ families still feel the impact,” the statement said.
Van Houten, now in her 70s, is serving a life sentence for helping Manson and other followers in the 1969 killings of Leno LaBianca, a grocer in Los Angeles, and his wife, Rosemary.
Van Houten could be freed in about two weeks after the parole board reviews her record and processes paperwork for her release from the California Institution for Women in Corona, her attorney Nancy Tetreault said.”
Letter about Leslie Van Houten?
What for?
No, it’s none of this guy’s business.
A totally different case from what Leslie’s is about.
Leslie was never near Cielo winding street.
She didn’t hurt anyone or anything near Cielo winding road.
She didn’t know, really didn’t know what she was doing in ’69 and believed in this and that at spahn kinda commune town
cause she wanted to belong. If you were there, as I was-in the ‘thick of it,’ so to speak from ’67-’69- that is, the scenes and cultural goings on and changes, you may know what I mean: ‘hippies,’ then the ‘hip’ and the bands and pot and acid and ‘looking’ for belonging and what was ‘cool’ what were answers to living, you know, philosophical and on, with ‘gurus’ smart asses that were not sincere just going along to free load on life, smoke pot, try for easy lays with ‘hippie chicks.’ I’m just scratching the surface.
Yeah, I knew girls like dear Leslie. Those partucular ones and Leslie were not ones to think of doing violence. What happened to Leslie and our friends from Charlier’s gang is something we have been talking about again and again. One more thing:
todays awful government/s in California are allowing criminals to ge free again and again, even for violent crimes and…
the same hypocrite governor and the crazy mayors and da’s defend ciminals and make excuses fo them and the same government has let hundreds of cold blooded killers of one or more persons out on parole to freedom. But Leslie is denied for 5 decades?
What the hell, I mean, you know..?
Did you ever once give it any thought about how you would like it if the Manson family killed you or your loved ones???
Nobody has it right to take another person’s life only in self-defense.
Leslie stamped MRS. LABIANCA at least 20 times in the back as she admitted in her trial testimony. Leslie claims that she was already dead. If so then how could the woman be screaming for help to her husband and why did she ask Charles for help to kill her??? Obviously she’s full of crap. What gives you the right to say JAY SEBRING’S FAMILY has no business objecting to Leslie being freed with $15 million at $400,000 a year residuals for making appearances, books,and movie deals???
As doors take self the victims can never come back to life, and the murders should not be granted parole until such time.
Did you ever once give it any thought about how you would like it if the Manson family killed you or your loved ones???
Nobody has it right to take another person’s life only in self-defense.
Leslie stabed MRS. LABIANCA at least 20 times in the back as she admitted in her trial testimony. Leslie claims that she was already dead. If so then how could the woman be screaming for help to her husband and why did she ask Charles for help to kill her??? Obviously she’s full of crap. What gives you the right to say JAY SEBRING’S FAMILY has no business objecting to Leslie being freed with $15 million at $400,000 a year residuals for making appearances, books,and movie deals???
As doors take self the victims can never come back to life, and the murders should not be granted parole until such time.
In closing, I meant to say as Doris Tate said, The Killers should not be paroled until the victims can come back to life.
(CORRECTION) In closing, I meant to say as Doris Tate said, The Killers should not be paroled until the victims can come back to life.
First, I want to express my deepest regret to your family that Newsom has elected not to appeal the decision. I just read this with great sadness. Your family deserves better.. Unfortunately we live in a world where victims are forgotten and rubbish like LVH become killer rockstar’s. Please know that there are people who share your views. God bless your family.
Pam it’s been 54 years. The victims were not forgotten and Leslie did not get off lightly. She’s done her time.
Paul,
It’s been 54 years since Louise LaBianca last saw her father. She has made it clear that she opposes her release. I FIRMLY stand with victims. You have every right to support a convicted killer. RL and LL had a God given right to live, she didn’t know them or the children she left without loving parents.
Pam you can stand with the victims family but that has nothing to do with the legal process. As far as the law is concerned she is more than eligible for parole and has been for a long time. If I’m going to be brutally honest, had the first night of murder hadn’t occurred, the killers would have been paroled years ago, even Tex.
The Killers were all given the death penalty and that’s what they should have got instead they were spared yes and your life imprisonment unfortunately with possibility of parole.
All the victims don’t get a second chance as doors take sense so why should the murderers???
how would you like it if the Madison family killed you or your family I’m sure you have a different feeling about all this???
The Killers were all given the death penalty and that’s what they should have got instead they were spared,and given life imprisonment unfortunately with possibility of parole.
All the victims don’t get a second chance as DO4RIS TATE said, so why should the murderers???
How would you like it if the MANSON FAMILY killed you or your family,I’m sure you have a different feeling about all this???
Louise LaBianca: Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings with us. I’m terribly sorry for your loss and what continues to be the erosion of victims’ rights.
My two cents: The onus is always put upon the victims’ family while the incarcerated benefit from recent laws such as elder release, or retroactive resentencing minors of violent crimes. Yet the victim is in perpetuity with the law at the time of the murder as their only avenue for justice. While life without parole didn’t exist at the time of sentencing of LVH and the others, the families of the victims have but one choice to fight parole year after year. It is unfair, unjust and it keeps their pain at the fore while relying on the state to speak for them…now they don’t even have that. To say they are unobjective is a diversion; it makes a victim of the murderer and the families the unobjective perpetrator.
LVH is set to be free. I can only wish her the type of objective grace she afforded others in August 1969.
HAPPYDAYSAREHEREAGAIN, are you advocating for violence against Leslie when she gets released?
Wolf: Benevolently meant; if I could edit I would insert what I meant: “…grace she NEVER afforded…”. I was certainly thinking it in that way. Guess my fingers overrode my thoughts. Apologies, I would never advocate violence.
Facts: Squeaky is FAR more dangerous than Leslie, whom I firmly believe has truly been rehabilitated and has a literal spotless prison record. Anyone associated with a similar crime would have been paroled long ago. She was a political prisoner. Many murderers get out doing less time than her. Yes, it sucks. I think you should never be on the outside if you intentionally took a life. But, there’s the law. The law is what it is.
Squeaky has a wall-length diorama of Spahn Ranch in her living room. So you tell me who’s more dangerous. I never see that glimmer in the eye in her when talking about Manson like some of the women still have; you can see it when they’re interviewed! It’s wild.
I mean Leslie doesn’t have the glimmer. Squeaky and Sandy are the Glimmer Twins.
That’s good to know.
Leslie will be released by end of month . She’s elated .
I wonder if she will work and finally contribute to society? This is just the start. Tex and PK will be next. Unbelievable!!
I hear ya Pam. I really hope PK & TW are never released as they too have that glimmer Viv was describing. I can barely stomach LVH’s release. Her contribution to society may be restricted to the conditions of her parole, which I wonder how strict it will be. I had asked Mr. Pfeiffer in a prior thread about Son of Sam law in CA. Can’t recall if he answered but from what I’ve read it was deemed unconstitutional as it violated the criminal’s right to free speech.
Tex and PK are NOT in the same position Leslie was or is in. What this discussion is mostly missing is the law and how it is being applied or ignored (there are a few exceptions and those are appreciated). When the law is not followed – – especially by our elected officials – – then our government becomes the law breakers. Leslie being released should really not surprise anyone who understands the law, her sentence, and the facts over the last 50+ years. When she was sentenced, the D.A. stated she would likely someday be released. The only surprise is how long it took.
RICH PFEIFFER After all this time she can finally go home, and about time!! How is Leslie taking this news?
She is cautiously very excited. I remind all my clients that they are not out until they walk through that gate. And Paul, thanks for being one of the ones who looks at the law and how it is applied.
Paul ,
You are such an advocate for Leslie . She’s very fortunate to have you as an attorney
Louise I’m sorry for your loss and that your family’s tragedy has had to be in the spotlight the way it has
Rothschild’s Dissent
Presiding Justice Frances Rothschild said in a dissent:
“I disagree with the majority because, in my view, the record contains some evidence to support the Governor’s decision to reverse Leslie Van Houten’s 2020 grant of parole in at least two ways. First, the current record and the record before this court in 2019 are not so materially different as to warrant our reaching a different result today than we did in considering Van Houten’s 2019 petition.”
In 2020, as in 2019, she said, Van Houten continued to minimize her role in the murders.
“Second,” Rothschild wrote, “the record contains some evidence that Van Houten has failed to show sufficient insight by failing to make a connection between her relationship with Charles Manson and her prison marriage to a man who sought to take advantage of her.”
The presiding justice contended:
“I conclude the record contains some evidence Van Houten lacked insight into the commitment offense. Coupled with the heinous nature of that crime, this is sufficient…to provide some evidence of current dangerousness and support the Governor’s decision.”
A great read….👍
Thank you Birdie Num Num,
Her barrister is always yelling about the law, you crushed his argument. Well done. HDAHA, this is what Vincent B said about her. “She continued to stab Rosemary 6 times after she was dead, so deep that every organ was penetrated, she relished it.” That glimmer! After this butchering, she calmly took a shower with Tex, put on RL’s clothing, ate cheese and watermelon at her family table. She’s not going to work, she’s is going to live off the state. A parasitic sociopath!
Pam: One thing I’ve not come across is if there were any hesitation wounds to Rosemary LaBianca’s body to support LVH’s contention that it was Tex Watson who urged her into the butchery of a “dead” woman; that she really didn’t want to stab RL. Since I’ve never read about evidence of hesitation wounds to either LaBianca, I can only conclude that LVH’s glee in stabbing was with no hesitation whatsoever. Just another reason to not allow her release since it doesn’t measure up to the evidence versus her narrative.
Birdie: A welcome reminder of the dissenting opinion.
Hey Rich,
The bloody decent thing you could have done was to offer condolences to Louise LaBianca on behalf of your client. She’s the daughter of the man your client butchered. You could have acknowledged her. To Louise, I lost my beloved grandfather, he was a police officer killed in the line of duty. I understand your pain and search for justice.#Victim’s rights! Now and forever.
Pam Leslie didn’t take a shower so if you are going to judge other perspectives, please get the facts straight.
BIRDIE NUM NUM The governor had no evidence for her being a risk to society, the court would not of ruled in her favour if that was the case. For him it was a political agenda, as other have said, he won’t let that be on his record that he paroled a Manson killer.
HAPPYDAYSAREHEREAGAIN If you look at the autopsy, the wounds to her lower back were not very deep, the coroner noted they were more like lacerations. Only about 2 inches deep.
Paul: Thanks for the reference to the autopsy of RL but again, and if my recollection works, I haven’t seen the terminology as a hesitation wound(s). Two inches deep is pretty deep and not exactly your typical hesitation wound postmortem or not. Guess I’ll go back keep searching.
I was told by reliable sources that LVH put the pillowcase over my poor stepmother’s head, thus rendering her helpless against her attackers. Rosemary put up a courageous struggle anyway by all accounts, or so I’ve heard. My mom saw the aftermath a few days later when she and my grandmother, Leno’s mother, went to the house. We all know that these events occurred over a half century ago. To many, it’s a true crime case that evidently continues to evoke strong reactions from both sides. To others, it’s a legal and a political issue simultaneously. You know who I feel bad for? My poor stepbrother Frank–Frankie to me. He had a hell of a life after that. He was such a cute kid, RIP
Louise the pillowcase situation is a weird one. I know Leslie said she may have done it though doesn’t actually remember doing it herself so not too sure why said she could have done it if she can’t recall doing it, and she has always said she doesn’t remember ever seeing Rosemarys face, so it seems the pillowcases may have already been placed over their heads by Tex or Manson. Leslie did say she remember using the lamp cord to secure the pillowcase.
I appreciate the supportive comments here, especially on the importance of victims’ rights and having a voice moving forward. For decades I stayed silent, with the exception of discussing things with close family and friends. I must say, it helps somewhat to share with a wider audience and I encourage it for anyone who has gone through a similar crisis in their lives. Peace to all.
Paul, might you consider LVH’s statements at her hearings outlined in the letter as lack of insight and evidence for unsuitability for parole? The past three Governors did.
I guess it doesn’t matter either way at this point-
In Ms. Van Houten’s own words:
May 28, 1998 Parole: “The autopsy report verifies that there were superficial stab wounds in the lower back of Ms. Labianca. I have consistently testified and taken responsibility for those…those wounds were post-mortem.” [p.53 ll. 14-22]
September 6, 2017 Parole: “I know it’s my responsibility that I allowed this to happen to me [p.210 ll.23-24]… I take responsibility that I allowed myself to follow him.” [p.212 ll. 1-2]
July 23, 2020 Parole: “He [Manson] put us in front of the circle and began to be critical, all geared toward dismantling our personalities and who we were [p.17 ll. 18-21]…He [Manson] was having us give up our personalities [p.18 ll.9-10]… Tex said, ‘Do something’ and handed me a knife and I stabbed Mrs. LaBianca in the lower torso, 16, 18 times [p.24 ll.1-3]…I believe that the things that made me weak and lost were ultimately used as manipulations against me in my conversations with Manson.” [p.29 ll.5-7]
November 9, 2021 Parole: “He [Manson] played every angle he could in any way he could to gain control and power over us [p.88 ll. 17-19]…[I stabbed] because Tex told me to.” [p. 45 l. 22]
BIRDIE NUM NUM
Well first of all this is a hearing from over nearly 25 years ago, there are many more hearings since then that we can look at to see her current perspective of her insight. If I’m honest I don’t see a problem with what she in the 1998 parole hearing because I know everyone doesn’t like her or any of the other killers putting any kind of culpability of their actions to Manson, but for me, I think he is responsible for the actions to a degree. Of course they acted on his demands and they of course are guilt for their actions but give credit where credits due, including Manson.
I’ve seen all the reasons for the reversal by the governor and honestly their arguments were weak at best. Again it boils down to a political agenda on their side.
BIRDIE NUM NUM also Newsom has decided against taking it the supreme court, an that’s probably because he knows he hasn’t got a case to make. I’m sure if he thought he had a strong enough case he would of processed with it, but he didn’t.
Louise: It is a long road victims travel and often a lonely one. The national spotlight has been on your loved ones for decades which no doubt had to play a part in your silence. I’m glad you feel you can voice your thoughts. It can be cathartic and while I don’t always agree with some here, at least it’s civil discussion. I hope your experience here brings you a sense of peace.
Paul: LVH’s statements are fair game, no matter the year she said them. Am I the same 25 years ago? Nope, but I also didn’t butcher two innocents a few weeks before my 20th birthday.
HAPPYDAYSAREHEREAGAIN If you looking for current insight for unsuitability you look at the hearings that happened closer to the day, not last century. Its probably one of the only place Newsom could find some kind (and its still pretty poor attempt) statement that he can nitpick at.
HAPPYDAYSAREHEREAGAIN, you are exactly right.
The media frenzies have been horrible over the years. I’m just a quiet bookish type person most of the time. Here’s hoping things settle down again soon!
Paul,
Actually, look closer at the dates before each new quote. The statements were made in 4 separate hearings- 1998, 2017, 2020 & 2021 (her last hearing).
Van Houten’s extensive minimization, deflection and lack of insight- despite over 50 years of reflection and so-called rehabilitation -is staggering…
…words of a cunning, narcissistic sociopath.
I have always felt if Leslie had just lied to the parole board and told them what they wanted to hear she would possibly been paroled years ago, noticed I didn’t say released, that’s the political side of this. All of us can think back to our youth and remember something stupid we did and yes not severely wrong as Leslie, but we were talked into it by maybe a girlfriend, guys will do almost anything if they think sex may be the reward. My point we did it but maybe it was done to impress our peers or on a dare, yes we did it but would we have done the same thing without that influence. I feel Leslie just told the parole board the truth as she felt it and was punished for it. The answer now a days seems to be play the victim and lie and you skate through.
Sorry but what in any of those statements give any indication of her being narcissistic or a sociopath? All she was doing was telling it like it was. Did Tex tell Leslie to do something and and hand her a knife? Yes he did! so what’s the problem? And all the things said about Manson are probably true as well so again what is the issue here?
As I said earlier, it’s obvious nitpicking
“words of a cunning, narcissistic sociopath.” Absolutely!
Absolutely not Pam.
RICH PFEIFFER that’s good to hear. I hope it’s a swift transfer for her. And thank you, I knew this day would come eventually, just took a bit longer than it should have unfortunately.
Paul,
First you declare “all this is a hearing from over nearly 25 years ago”. Then when it’s revealed the revelatory comments are many statements from 1998 all the way up to LVH’s last parole hearing (just 17 months ago), you pivot to this is “obvious nitpicking”.
I’m pretty certain you and I have differing understandings in the definition of “nitpicking”. But, that’s okay.
Paul you then say, “Sorry but what in any of those statements give any indication of her being narcissistic or a sociopath? All she was doing was telling it like it was. Did Tex tell Leslie to do something and and hand her a knife? Yes he did! so what’s the problem?”
-“So what’s the problem?”
There is only one answer that I can think of to your mind bending question, “Wow.”
-Now, I’m pretty sure we are about to venture into familiar “differing understandings” territory RE the words NARCISSISTIC and SOCIOPATH.
In describing her responsibility for crimes in which she killed 2 innocent people, Leslie Van Houten carefully fashions,
“I know it’s my responsibility that I allowed this to happen to me [p.210 ll.23-24]… I take responsibility that I allowed myself to follow him.”
This is a doozy, Paul. So Leslie takes responsibility for what she ALLOWED TO HAPPEN TO HER. Her! Me. Me. Me. I. Me. I,I,I.
Not “what I committed against Rosemary and Leno LaBianca”. Nooo, not her victims. She then twists her responsibility for her brutal actions in these murders to “I take responsibility that I allowed myself to follow him.” Huh?What?
LVH not only makes this all about herself, but she positions herself as a victim of Manson by ALLOWING “myself to FOLLOW him.”
Now, some may contend I am reaching out on a limb here, but I don’t think it gets any more narcissistic, sociopathic or cunning than that.
But maybe I’m nitpicking.
Again what she said was correct. She let it happen to her! She let herself fall into a situation that had terrible consequences. You can’t pretend Manson didn’t have some responsibility for hers or any of the killers actions, because that would be untrue. Again nothing you quoted here gives any indication for her being sociopath. You are literally picking at straws. The board has stated several times that she takes complete responsibility for her crimes and at least they can look at it objectively without letting their emotions decide for them.
I’ll give a little quote back as well from her 19 hearing
“I take responsibility — this is — I don’t — I don’t blame him or anyone else for what I have done. And that was the best — the best way I can figure to try and explain it was, um, when I was reading a lot of books on relationships, there was one that said that there are people that need to control and there are people that need to be controlled and in that becomes a relationship. I didn’t think up the revolution. It’s enmeshed, but I in no way minimize what I did. I went, I participated, I have done what I can to make right on what I did. There is nothing in that night of murder that I don’t take the responsibility for or all that came before. “
Blimey! No nitpicking there. This is a damning indictment. It’s all about what happened to her. You nailed her to the ground. All Me, Me. I never realized she said all these things, you can see her clearly minimizing her involvement. Great research and rebuttal. Thank you.
Paul.
Great quote you’ve provided-
“I take responsibility — this is — I don’t — I don’t blame him or anyone else for what I have done. And that was the best — the best way I can figure to try and explain it was, um, when I was reading a lot of books on relationships, there was one that said that there are people that need to control and there are people that need to be controlled and in that becomes a relationship. I didn’t think up the revolution. It’s enmeshed, but I in no way minimize what I did. I went, I participated”
Paul, you just proved Louise LaBianca’s, Pam’s, HDAHA’s points: one of America’s most notorious killers in US history is referencing “a lot of books on relationships…but I in no way minimize what I did. I went, I participated”
-“…books on relationships”…”what I did. I went, I participated”
“BOOKS ON RELATIONSHIPS… I PARTICIPATED”
Paul, I submit to you, and everyone on this site, that your arguments would be hilarious if not for the grave realities of LVH’s crimes.
What’s next?… a participation trophy?
BIRDIE NUM NUM Is that what you are coming with? You are arguing she is unsuitable because she reads books on relationships? That is hilarious.
By the way, the most confounding point in all of this is- why are any of us so passionate and opinionated about these crimes when none of us – with the exception of Louise LaBianca- are intrinsically, directly impacted by these killings?…..
Birdie Num Num,
I want to try and answer why I feel so passionate about this case. It took place close to thirty years after I was born. I think this case and many others represents the erosion of victim’s rights. My grandfather’s killer didn’t serve the life sentence he was given. His killer had many supporters, access to free legal representation in the UK. What do the victims get? It helps me to advocate passionately for all victims, to say that the lives of RL and LL mattered. That’s important to me, even if I wasn’t directly impacted. Thank you so much for your opinions on this case.
Louise, Birdie & Pam: Amazing breakdown that some will understand it for what it proves, and others will call it nitpicking or cite the long ago and far far away argument. Our opinions are very strong, as Louise stated, in one way or another. What disturbs me, which I’ve stated before, is what appears to be indifference shown to the victims by some LVH supporters, who see through a political/law abiding lens rather than heinous criminal act. Yes, laws are to be followed. My point of view is always coming from the victim first and foremost and what was stolen from them; even their very identities are forever linked to the killer’s name. Victims’ rights are eroding to the point where their voice will be as silent as their loved ones in their grave.
HAPPYDAYSAREHEREAGAIN Your opinions might be strong, put the arguments not so much. As you said earlier, you always bring the victims 1st, which I do understand why, but in that case you will struggle to make an objective opinion on the matter. I’ve listened to arguments by the opposers like Pam and Birdie, as well as the governor, and honestly, their arguments have been abysmal because they are not looking at this case with an unbiased perspective.
Pam,
I am so sorry to learn of you loss and your grandfather’s tragedy. Your perspective and passion for victim’s rights is compelling and moving. I relate and stand by you in your passionate regard for victim’s realities & justice.
Paul: And to me your argument and opinion are zealously ignoring victims in your non-objectiveness. In the grand scheme does it truly matter? Nope. I’ll stand by victims and their rights any day of the week and twice on Sunday before I’d advocate for the release of a murderer. That’s your forte.
I don’t ignore them, of course they all had to serve the time for the crimes are committed against the victims, but when you meet the criteria for parole as Leslie has, then they are suitable to be released. she’s been in prison for 53 years (minus bail in 78), so it’s time to accept that, even if you are not happy with it.
Looks like Leslie was released this morning. The day finally came, even if it took a bit longer than it should have.
Hello,
and,
Though many disagree with my suggesting that Leslie Van Houten should have been given the same degree of the application of the law as to do with parole, as many other inmates were given, I agree with what Pam said, above:
Pfeiffer the lawyer who has some statements here as on other preious posts, is obviously a very cold, unfeeling person when he has not offered, indeed, has not the courtesy, taste , feelings or any class to utter some words of sympathy/understanding to Mr. Labianca’s grandaughter, or any of the victims family relatives. The real credit for support or Ms. Van Houten’s release goes to her relatives, other lawyers and the Judges that applied the law toward this freedom for her.
I also have supported the freedom for Susan Atkins, though I say that she and Leslie should have done 20 years or so for there crimes. The crimes were committed thanks to Manson and Tex Watson and punk Bobby Beousoleil-liar, of course killer Krenwinkle too. Leslie and Susan were so stupid and ‘out of it’ yet the same crimes would have been committed. All my respect for the victims relatives and may the victims Rest in Heaven.
FAYEZ: Thank you for your kind thoughts. I also appreciate your clarification that, with or without LVH’s participation, the crimes would have still been committed. Don’t think I will be sticking around for the other parole decisions–perhaps a move to another country is in my future?
As for Susan Atkins, I recall when my mother was still alive and she heard that they wouldn’t let Susan out of prison even on her deathbed, she thought that was terribly sad and uncompassionate of them. “They should let the poor woman go home,” she said. I don’t remember if I responded to her or not. I usually didn’t.
I’d just let her talk. She was quite the expert on the subject, go figure!
Louise, thank you very much your words mean a lot to me.
To have an open mind and to be angry, of course, at those that committ such horrible crimes against their human beings, yet at the same time, see the whole picture, as it were,
well,
as Paul Harvey used to say, heh, anyone remember Paul’s radio show?
“And now, the rest of the story…”
And when the show would sign off…”Paul Haarvey (sic) GOOD DAY!” I always laughed.
The rest of stories in those terrible days of August 9-10, were the dummies, and I’m being kind, Susan Atkins and Leslie with the Dutch name. Seriously, the crimes were happening anyway, as we know, cause Charlie was starting the actions and he picked a girl or two to go along with the likes of Tex Watson and Beausoleil. But, Susan and Leslie shouldn’t have done what they did, what was there. They richly deserved the punishment of many years and what can we say, it was just crazy as John Lennon said, about Manson: “the guy’s crazy, nuts.” Sometimes, it’s like I have to apologize for having known Susan, but what the heck is coincidence and fate, I don’t know sometimes and I think, since 1969, it’s the families of sharon and good man Mr. Labianca who needed/need love and all support. too bad there was no GoFundme them, oh well
Whether or not Rosemary was already deceased when LVH stabbed her multiple times, doesn’t matter, just as it wouldn’t matter if LVH had simply entered the Waverly Drive house, turned on the TV and made coffee while TW and PK did their deeds..
LVH knew what was going to transpire that night before she left Spahn Ranch after watching TV news reports all day on what happened in Benedict Canyon, being told by SA and PK, what really transpired on Cielo Drive the night before.. Plenty of time to rethink her situation and ponder what actions as to what she should do.. What does Little Miss LVH choose?!? She pleads and begs with CM to be included on the 2nd night on 08/09 so as not to feel left out, then returns to Spahn Ranch and remarks how much fun it was.. SICKENING..
Fayez Abedaziz says:
Pfeiffer the lawyer who has some statements here as on other preious posts, is obviously a very cold, unfeeling person when he has not offered, indeed, has not the courtesy, taste , feelings or any class to utter some words of sympathy/understanding to Mr. Labianca’s grandaughter, or any of the victims family relatives
That was really unfair and uncalled for, even if it was a month ago.
There’s no reason for Rich Pfeiffer to do that, Fayez. He had a job to do which was to represent his client. And he did that. Over the last few years, he’s been given a hard time on these pages, usually by people that have no understanding of the area in which he works, that of the law, neither do they want to understand or appreciate the law, by which we all must live, even if we don’t like every aspect of it.
Him not saying anything to Louise does not make him someone with no class, any more than offering condolensces for something that happened 54 years ago makes one a person with class.
Birdie Num Num says:
By the way, the most confounding point in all of this is- why are any of us so passionate and opinionated about these crimes when none of us – with the exception of Louise LaBianca- are intrinsically, directly impacted by these killings?…..
Simple answer to this is ~ we are human beings. We are affected by things outside our direct sphere.
I have strong feelings and opinions about loads of things that do not in any way impact me personally. The question almost implies that unless something does impact one directly, then one shouldn’t really care about anything.
But you’re here sometimes, and you argue pretty strongly. Why ? Because you have a view and your view matters in a discussion.
JOHN LUCKETT says:
I will never understand why your sister married MANSON MURDERER CHARLES TEX WATSON,WHOM HELPED MURDER YOUR PARENTS ???
You have long been one of the masters of dis and misinformation in the comments section and it’s why it’s impossible to take you seriously. It is one thing to have an opinion. It is another thing altogether to have an informed opinion. And it’s something else beyond that to just talk rubbish, and even worse, rubbish that is based on stuff that is not even factual.
You may well be what the world has to look forward to as AI gains ground ! 😀
Louise LaBianca says:
As for Susan Atkins, I recall when my mother was still alive and she heard that they wouldn’t let Susan out of prison even on her deathbed, she thought that was terribly sad and uncompassionate of them. “They should let the poor woman go home,” she said
Interestingly, I would not have let Susan out back in 2009, despite her condition.
Again, it was down to matters of the law. She did not accept the findings of the court. Even though she admitted what she had done during the penalty phase of her trial, she, in her parole hearings, kept on stating that she had not stabbed Sharon Tate and she kept on throwing in things that were heresay, things that demonstrated that she wasn’t yet at that place, even after 40 years, where she was utterly transparent about her crimes. Her stories kept changing and basically, it became impossible to believe much of what she did say. That’s why they never let her out.
On the face of it, it seems harsh. But not once you go into it.
And there are similarities today with both Bobby and Bruce. They are not well men ~ yet their most recent parole hearings ended in denials. Now, I think the denial of Bruce was plainly ridiculous. After 7 “yes” decisions, he’d have to have murdered the prison Guv’nor to rate a “no.” But in Bobby’s case, he only has his own duplicitousness to blame, even with just one lung. He comes across as dodgy and that’s partly why he’s still inside. Had he kept his nose clean, he’d have been out a couple of decades ago, probably.
As for Susan Atkins, I recall when my mother was still alive and she heard that they wouldn’t let Susan out of prison even on her deathbed, she thought that was terribly sad and uncompassionate of them. “They should let the poor woman go home,” she said
I wonder what the naysayers would say or would have said to your Mum. As I frequently have pointed out, there isn’t much black and white in this continuing saga, but plenty of nuance.
I came across this video of Anthony DiMaria speaking on CNN about his feelings re the parole of LVH
It’s a couple of months old but worth posting for those who haven’t seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3PVCcNQxtY
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