• Three Murders Listed In Warrant For Watson Tapes

Three Murders Listed In Warrant For Watson Tapes

Friday, May 31st, 2013

May 31 – Three murders were listed in the search warrant issued last year for the Tex Watson/Bill Boyd recordings. The sealed warrant, exclusively revealed to Cielodrive.com earlier this week, gave insight into the behind-the-scenes actions taken by the LAPD to acquire the 43 year-old tapes.

The Los Angeles Police Department last October, disclosed their investigators believed that the decades-old taped conversations between Charles “Tex” Watson and his attorney, could possibly link a dozen unsolved homicides to the Manson family. However, the search warrant issued for the tapes that same month only mentioned three murders, none of which occurred within the LAPD’s jurisdiction.

Of the three murders mentioned in the warrant, only two were specifically named – Karl Stubbs and Fillipo Tennerelli.

In November of 1968, friends of 80 year-old Karl Stubbs found him severely beaten in front of his home in Olancha, California. Stubbs was described by friends as a religious man who befriended anyone he came upon. Shortly before his beating, Stubbs was seen with a group of hippie types and was acting out of character. Stubbs was still alive when he was found, but died later in the hospital. Before his passing, Stubbs told investigators that he was beaten by 2 young men and 2 young women, who giggled the entire time they beat him.

The body of 23 year-old Fillipo Tennerelli was discovered in a Bishop, California hotel room on Wednesday, October 1, 1969. Tennerelli died from a shotgun wound to the head and his death was, and always has been, ruled a suicide. Weeks after Tennerelli’s death, the California Highway Patrol reported finding his abandoned Volkswagen in the Panamint Valley, north of the Barker Ranch. According to reports, blood was discovered both in and outside of the vehicle, leading some to suspect that Tennerelli’s death was not a suicide.

According to the warrant, the LAPD became interested in the two cases after reading the Desert News article, More Manson Mysteries in Inyo County. The 2008 article, written by Tom Weeks, covered the still lingering suspicions surrounding both the Stubbs and Tennerelli deaths.

The third murder listed in the warrant is that of an outlaw biker. The warrant doesn’t identify the biker by name, but does identify LAPD’s source for the information – a 2008 taped interview Bill Boyd did with author Tom O’Neill.

The LAPD became aware of the tapes in March of 2012, after the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office was contacted by Department of Justice Trustee Linda Payne. Payne had been assigned with the task of liquidating the assets of the law firm Boyd/Veigel after the firm went bankrupt in December of 2009. Bill Boyd, had died in August of 2009, suffering a heart attack while running on his treadmill. While going through the firms assets Payne found two boxes of legal files and 8 cassette tapes pertaining to the Charles “Tex” Watson case.

Watson was arrested in McKinney, Texas on November 30, 1969 after California issued a warrant in connection to the seven Tate-LaBianca murders. Three days later, Watson retained the law firm of Boyd, Veigel and Gay to represent him in and signed over all of his property to the firm. Bill Boyd fought Watson’s extradition to California for nearly a year before the appeal was denied by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on Friday, September 11, 1970.

Payne contacted both Watson and the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office about the files and tapes. On March 19, 2012, the LAPD sent Department of Justice Trustee Timothy O’Neal a formal request for the tapes. Payne filed a motion, asking for a court order to turn over the recordings to the LAPD.

A hearing was held in Plano, Texas on May 31, 2012. Watson’s lawyer argued that the tapes were protected by attorney/client privilege. O’Neal, however contested the claim and introduced into evidence a document signed by Charles Watson in September of 1976 that waived his attorney-client privilege. The agreement signed by Watson, allowed for Boyd to sell certain things in order to raise money for his legal defense bill.

Copies of the recordings were sold in 1976 to Chaplin Ray Hoekstra for $49,000. The recordings became the basis for Watson’s book with Chaplin Ray, Will You Die For Me?

Judge Brenda Rhoades ruled against Watson at the conclusion of the hearing, stating that he had failed to prove that the attorney-client privilege still existed. Rhoades ordered the tapes be turned over to the LAPD.

Both Watson’s attorneys and Watson himself appealed Judge Rhoades’ order in June. Watson filed a pro se motion with the court requesting the LAPD only be allowed to listen to the tapes and asked the tapes then be turned over to his attorneys.

According to the search warrant, LAPD homicide detective Dan Jenks met with the author Tom O’Neill in July of 2012. In the meeting, O’Neill let Jenks listen to the 2008 interview the author recorded with Boyd. In it, Boyd discussed having approximately twenty hours of taped recordings of Watson discussing the Tate-LaBianca murders. Boyd also revealed that Watson also discussed other murders committed by Charles Manson, including the murder of a biker.

That same month, Jenks contacted detective J.D. Ross in Fort Worth, Texas, requesting assistance in recovering the tapes. Jenks had learned from Payne that the tapes were locked in a safe at her residence. With information supplied to him from Jenks, Ross put together a warrant.

The warrant, which was signed by Judge Michael Snipes on October 3, 2012, called for the search and seizure of all forms of audio recordings within the residence of Linda Payne.

The warrant was blocked two days later by Judge Richard Schell. According to Schell’s order, the LAPD had not offered any explanation as to why the bankruptcy appeal should be circumvented.

Almost six months later, Judge Schell denied Tex’s appeal, stating that Payne was within her right to turn over the tapes because Watson had signed over all of his possessions to Boyd to pay his legal fees. Watson’s only legal right to the tapes was the attorney/client privilege, which he also signed away in the book deal. Concluding his ruling, Schell wrote, “Watson clearly states that he has no objection to the LAPD listening to the contents of the cassette tapes. Such statement alone constitutes a waiver of the attorney/client privilege.”

The LAPD last week revealed that they had finally flown to Texas to take possession of the tapes. The tapes were turned over to the Scientific Investigation Division who made digital copies and homicide detectives as well as the District Attorney’s Office have begun analyzing their contents. The tapes will not be disclosed to the public at this time.

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34 Responses to Three Murders Listed In Warrant For Watson Tapes

  1. johnnyseattle says:

    Nice article/update on the Tex Tapes. A few things just leap out as you read it.

    “Weeks after Tennerelli’s death, the California Highway Patrol reported finding his abandoned Volkswagen in the Panamint Valley, north of the Barker Ranch. According to reports, blood was discovered both in and outside of the vehicle, leading some to suspect that Tennerelli’s death was not a suicide.”

    “Before his passing, Stubbs told investigators that he was beaten by 2 young men and 2 young women, who giggled the entire time they beat him.”

    Killing someone and framing it as a suicide, stealing Volkswagons leaving them outside of Barker Ranch, or tormenting a victim sure has a familiar ring to it. The 2 men and 2 women could easily be folks not named Tex, Linda, Susan, Pat, or Leslie. And given that Tex was trying to deal his way out of a mess it is doubtful that he was one of the 2 men or involved in the ‘suicide’ of Fillipo Tennerelli. Of course, if the LAPD did get some names and started to interview folks and got one to confess they witnessed others killing the young man or the old man…even though a conviction would be problematic at the very least, you may have some 60-ish Manson Members who wish that the Tex Tapes never saw the light of day.

    • cielodrive.com says:

      I wouldn’t get too caught up on Stubbs or Tennerelli. If the LAPD had any knowledge of those cases being mentioned within the tapes they would’ve said so in the warrant. They are just speculating with those two. Also, it’s a 2 hour drive from the Barker Ranch to where Tennerelli’s car was found. So it’s not like the car was parked around the corner.

      The real point of interest is the biker, since that information is coming from Boyd himself. Out of the three, thats the only one that we know is discussed on the tapes. At least according to Boyd’s recollection.

  2. johnnyseattle says:

    Am I misreading the article?
    “However, the search warrant issued for the tapes that same month only mentioned three murders, none of which occurred within the LAPD’s jurisdiction.
    Of the three murders mentioned in the warrant, only two were specifically named – Karl Stubbs and Fillipo Tennerelli.”

    But I do agree the murder of the outlaw biker does bring to mind some thoughts. I wonder what group the biker was affiliated with.

    Anyway, thanks for the update. I’ll be eagerly awaiting further developments.

    • cielodrive.com says:

      No you’re not misreading it. I was just pointing out that they were just speculating in regards to those two Inyo cases. They have offered no proof to indicate that those particular cases were discussed within the tapes. It appears that they were just speaking to the possibility of it.

      The biker is different because they know it was something discussed on the tapes. The club is named

  3. lee says:

    Funny how Tex Watson is such a born-again Christian, who even blames rock music for violence, yet he is being stubborn about these recordings. Is he still protecting his friends? He mentioned in an interview that Squeaky might of killed at one time. Of course, he didn’t come right out, and say that, but he implied. Funny, but I can imagine one of the giggling girls as Brenda. She was pure evil!

  4. MissToni says:

    Why would the bankruptcy trustee have the tapes at her home? That seems inappropriate.

  5. Roger says:

    First thing that comes to”my” mind is John Phillip Haught…

    Isn’t Venice in LAPD jurisdiction? It definitely would be LA DA’s jurisdiction…

    I remember reading that Zero was a biker, but can’t remember what club…

    IMO, they want to see if Bruce is withholding info or responsibility and this may have had a bearing on Gov Browns decision not to grant parole…. just my own opinion/thoughts…

  6. wile coyote says:

    Tex will admit to all on his death bed, much like Susan did(rolls eyes)

  7. johnnyseattle says:

    That’s a great point about Tex, If he was truly a repentant ‘born again’ Christian then surely one of the first precepts would be a full, unadulterated confession of his sins. Without any holdback or omissions. Given that his sins have criminally impacted others that would include telling all he knew about his crimes or those that he participated in or that he knew of to the police. Which would have included releasing the tapes to the LAPD without objection.
    Being ‘born again’ is more than words, it includes deeds.

    • Ace says:

      In Christianity, public confessions are considered a vanity. It’s between the sinner and God, not his fellow sinners. I (or you, or anyone) don’t know if Watson is genuine. Only God knows. But if you don’t believe that, prove it by publicly confessing all your sins right here, right now.

      • johnnyseattle says:

        I was going more towards the acts or deeds angle, meaning if he was truly repentant he wouldn’t have put up roadblocks for the authorities regarding the tapes.

        In regards to public confession, telling all he knows about the crimes he participated in would be considered less a ‘vanity’ and more of a public service.

  8. cielodrive.com says:

    I don’t know much about bankruptcy proceedings so I have no idea if it’s inappropriate to have the tapes in the trustee’s residence.

    According to the warrant, the biker is killed by Charles Manson. Assuming that’s true you can eliminate the biker being “Zero” since he “committed suicide” after Manson was in custody.

    Another thing, last June Tex entered a motion that would’ve prohibited the LAPD from ever disclosing the tapes to the public. The motion, however was denied.

  9. MissToni says:

    I hope that you can work your magic and get an audio transcript, if ever a possibility. Thanks for all you do.

  10. Always Curious says:

    I certainly hope there is no information on those tapes that goes against everything Mr. Watson has held firm to. I, for one, would like to believe that change is possible and that there can be something positive in all this, and if he didn’t come clean then that would pretty much destroy everything he has proclaimed to stand for.

    • Joseph says:

      Who cares what “Mr.” Watson proclaims to stand for. He showed what he stands for when he viciously stabbed Sharon Tate 16 times while she begged for her life and for the baby she was two weeks from having. Plus he murdered five other people at that house. Now he claims he’s changed and born again. Well all those other people will still be deprived of their lives, so why should that monster be allowed to resume his. I hope he rots in jail til he develops a terminal disease and dies a slow painful death, just like the other monster, Susan Atkins did. The sooner they all burn in hell, the better.

      • Disgusted says:

        People with your attitudes make me sick.Who are you to gleefully wish somebody to torture in Hell? Are you a spotless sinner ? Is your life clean before God? I don’t care if you aren’t a murderer .There are plenty of other sins that can send you to Hell,including unforgiveness and not living a Christian life.It’s all in the Bible.I’m not any better than you because I’m a sinner too but I can’t stand the attitude of people like you.The Manson family now may truly be Christians and end up in Heaven while people like you might go to Hell if you don’t change and repent.If they are sincere and remorseful before God,they will be forgiven.

        • LoLo says:

          So if you repent & ask for forgiveness & going forward you do not commit sin you get into heaven? I can rob a store at gunpoint, cheat on my spouse, abuse my kids & just say sorry then not do anything else wrong & I’m forgiven?

          • Fred Bloggs says:

            Lolo {if you’re still around these pages},
            It’s paradoxical in that it’s not as easy as that but it is as straightforward as that. Giving your example of the person that
            “can rob a store at gunpoint, cheat on my spouse, abuse my kids & just say sorry then not do anything else wrong & I’m forgiven?”
            well, there’s a whole world of actions to be faced within that. If the one asking forgiveness from God is genuine {and God’s not an idiot ~ He’ll know who means it and who doesn’t} then God will forgive. Providing the person repents. Repenting is really not verbal. It’s firstly mental {acknowledging one’s sinfulness and the need to turn} then action. So such a person will have to turn themselves in for both the store robbery and the abuse of their kids and face all that the law and those they have wronged may throw at them.
            It’s not that likely to be a pat on the back and a handshake for coming clean !
            If their spouse wants to remain with them after they’ve confessed to them and asked them for
            forgiveness {whether the spouse forgives or not}, then they have to change their way of being in relation to their spouse. If the spouse says “£+^* off !” and decides to leave, the person has to deal with that and the ongoing consequences as they relate to their spouse and kids {who, remember, they’ve abused}. It could last for years. It could last until death.
            The fact that God forgives doesn’t guarantee anyone else will. Nothing in God even dictates that they must, if they are not following Christ.
            So, believe me, there is nothing simple and soft about being forgiven by God. Being given a second chance by the almighty is great for the ongoing life a Christian believes in after physical death but it may still mean a pretty miserable existence for the rest of one’s life here on earth. It is not {no pun intended} a ‘get out of jail free’ card nor is it an “I’ve gotten away with it” scenario.
            I truly hope for their sakes that Charles Watson, Susan Atkins and Bruce Davis have been genuine in turning to Christ. Because we can’t in all honesty say that they’ve had a wonderful old life since they converted in 73/74. If their lives were so wonderful and easy, they wouldn’t try for parole……..

  11. Roger says:

    Thanks for the reply Cielo…

    “Boyd also revealed that Watson also discussed other murders committed by Charles Manson, including the murder of a biker.”

    I still feel this quote falls under the vail that claims Manson himself murdered all the victims himself when we know that isn’t so…albeit he was convicted of such…

    Just say’n…

    Plus Leslie’s comment regarding Zero “yeah, that’s odd”…and her parole hearing is this upcoming week…

    Can’t help thinking the DA is seeking more ammunition…

  12. Silentseason says:

    Thanks for posting Cielo. More confirmation of how Watson or any of the Family have any regret or remorse for their actions. True sociopaths then and now.

  13. Gina says:

    Poor Leslie. She stabbed a dead body to fit in, has been a model inmate for forty years and every time a parole hearing comes up, they find some thing to spot light so it shines on the person coming up for parole, the public notices and gets all irate at the prospect of a “Manson family member” getting out on parole and the person gets denied.

    So far from what I’m reading there is nothing new here, with the exception of the unnamed outlaw biker and lots of outlaw bikers get killed all the time. Sorry but this seems like another waste of time and tax money and I doubt it will uncover anything.

    The timing of this “new information” is suspect and probably just a trigger to turn the public’s attention to the Van Houten parole hearing so the parole board can say they have a million letters saying they don’t want her released.

    • cielodrive.com says:

      I can assure you that the timing of this information has nothing to do with Leslie’s parole hearing.

  14. Lee says:

    Poor Leslie? What the ???? Gina, how do you know that Mrs. LaBianca was just a “dead body” she stabbed? That is disgusting to even say that. Mrs. LaBianca was in her bed, asleep, waiting her husband to join her when those animals broke into their homes, and murdered them in the most painful, brutal way. I don’t feel sorry for Leslie AT ALL. She WANTED to kill. She didn’t do it to fit in. Have you read the transcripts to her parole hearings? She even told the board that they probably would of killed a babies, if necessary. I can’t believe people take up for Leslie Van Houten like this. What about the victims? What about Rosemary LaBianca having to HEAR her husband being murdered? You should be in prison with Leslie, Gina.

  15. Gina says:

    If there was information about more murders wouldn’t it be in the book, “Will You Die For Me?”

  16. Gina says:

    They have had plenty of time to listen to them now. They must not have found anything on Charlie or we would have heard about it.

  17. LoLo says:

    If Tex is truly a Christian & has nothing to hide why is he trying to stop the tapes from being heard? What’s to hide? Has he only “repented” for the things we know about?

    • Fred Bloggs says:

      That’s what worries me about the murder of Shorty. Both Bruce and Charles Watson are born again believers and yet Bruce is one of the people that has implicated Watson in the murder. Even Charles Manson in George Stimson’s book says “I don’t know if Tex was there.”

  18. N-Allison says:

    Just a guess here but I would say that if this biker was killed by Manson and his “friends” it could be the following 2 men and 2 women: Charles Manson, T.J. the Terrible, Lynette “Squeky” Fromme, and Sandra Good.

  19. Fred Bloggs says:

    Has anyone seen this article that can be found at https://medium.com/law-of-the-land/the-tale-of-the-manson-tapes-324b4a6138d9 ?
    It’s a fascinating update on these tapes and adds more mystery to already mysterious proceedings !
    Firstly we’re told that there’s nothing new on the tapes, then we’re told that Debra Tate and Anthony DiMaria were told that Charles Watson seriously diminishes the role of the women in the murders.
    It’s a long but worth ploughing through article.

  20. Sasha Mu Travers says:

    I really believe that Tex Watson has owned up to the crimes he committed and was not involved in the murder of Karl Stubbs, as the timeline doesn’t fit. He is truly remorseful and repentant for what he has done and I really believe that God has forgiven him! Jesus says those of you without sin, cast the first stone!

  21. Jesse says:

    I publicly confess, right here, right now, that I have done a lot of stupid things in my younger days, but NONE of them included butchering to death innocent people for no freaking reason whatsoever!

  22. Jesse says:

    The twisted person saying that the people who don’t get behind the release of the Manson Family Murderers, or don’t forgive them, are going to hell must be one of the Manson Family. How does it feel to have Charles Manson’s hand up your butt for nearly 50 years? Isn’t that getting a little old by now?

    Stay away from the brown acid, man!

  23. Trish says:

    Hey there! Firstly, I would like to tip my hat to this website and its operators. This is ALWAYS my first point for searching anything regarding Manson. Kudos!

    Secondly, I am not sure if anyone can help me; but I recall Susan Atkins discussing the disappearance of 3 bikers who had brought her up to Barker ranch. She stated everyone was “cheesed” off with her for bringing them up there; and it was the last time she saw any of the men. I know it’s a long shot- but does anyone know anything about this? Could this be related to the “biker” murder? I know it’s singular vs plural; but just thought I would throw it out there. Thanks!

  24. marc carriere says:

    they should all stay in jail untill they die………..it is justice……..the tate family and the other families worked so hard to accomplish rights for the victims…..Bravo Debra……….Bravo…you are a brave woman and your health is in my prayers……….marc

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