Liz, Sinatra on Slay List – Tate Witness. Ghastly Tortures Planned For Stars
Friday, October 9th, 1970
LOS ANGELES, Oct. 9 – Susan Atkins talked to cellmate Virgina Graham about killing Liz Taylor, Richard Burton, Frank Sinatra, Tom Jones and Steve McQueen as part of a murder master plan for Charles Manson’s hippie “family.”
This was learned exclusively by the Herald-Examiner from sources close to the downtown Hall of Justice trial of Manson, Miss Atkins and two other female members of the sex and drug cult.
“Susan…I knew her as Sadie Glutz, went into the gory details of how these famous persons would be killed,” said Mrs. Graham, “and talked of how the ‘family’ was going to go cross country in a bus, killing people at random.”
These conversations between Mrs. Graham, 37, and Miss Atkins, 21, reportedly occurred in early November of last year, when both were assigned to Dormitory 8000 in Sybil Brand Institute for Women.
Mrs. Graham, due to testify today in the Sharon Tate – Leno LaBianca murder trial, recalls:
“The whole purpose of this plan to murder people, so Sadie said, was to trigger what Charlie called ‘helter skelter,’ which she described as a black versus white revolution…the beginning of the end for The Establishment…chaos.”
Miss Atkins also was quoted as speaking of weird sex rites highlighted by Manson placing himself on a cross in crucifixion fashion.
Mrs. Graham said Miss Atkins described these rites to her on several occasions:
“Charlie would put himself up on a cross. A girl would kneel at the foot of the cross. Then he would moan, cry out as though he was being crucified…they also would sacrifice animals and drink their blood as a fertility rite.
“Manson wanted the girls to produce children because they were trying to form a new type of society…a new type of human being.”
Miss Atkins and his other followers were absolutely convinced that Manson was Jesus Christ, she told Mrs. Graham.
“Sadie said he was their father, their leader, their love. He was a Jesus, and he was going to lead them into the desert. She went on, saying that there is a very large hole in Death Valley and that Charlie is the only one who knows where it is, but right now there is a civilization of people living under the earth.
“His ‘family’ and the ‘chosen few’ were going to go with him down this hole after they had set off this ‘helter skelter’ by executing, assassinating and murdering people.”
Miss Atkins told Mrs. Graham that she “and the others were surprised they had killed celebrities when they went to the Tate estate, and they were exhilarated by the shock value of killing famous people because it would speed up helter skelter.”
The following is Mrs. Graham’s recollections of what Miss Atkins said regarding the planned slaying of the Burtons:
“Sadie came into my bed area at Dormitory 8000 and sat down on the bed as we started talking. She had a movie magazine in her hand and it was opened up to a picture of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.
“(Miss Atkins) talked of how beautiful Liz was, but that she had to destroy the ugly to bring out the beauty…She told me she had decided to murder them…and that she wanted to do something she thought would be unusual and would again shock the world. So she decided to take Elizabeth Taylor’s eyes out.
“She told me that she knew how to gouge out people’s eyes. She then said that she was going to take her knife…and she was going to burn the end of it until it was red hot.
“She wanted to take it and put it on the side of Miss Taylor’s face…then she commented about the smell of disintegrating flesh, that it was going beach to the elements, back to infinity.
“Sadie continued on and talked about (emasculating) Burton in the most crude terms.
“She also said they were going to make sure they were tied securely from hand to foot during all of this…so there wouldn’t be a problem of people running away like at the Tate house.”
Liberally quoting Miss Atkins, here is what Mrs. Graham had to say about the plans for Sinatra:
“I’m definitely going to get him, Sadies said. She felt that she really had something choice for him. She said that they would go to his house in Palm Springs…she said they knew his place was there, and she was positive he was going to answer the door bell because Frank likes women.
“She said that other members of the ‘family’ would go with her. They were going to hang Sinatra on a meat hook upside down.
“Then she was going to put on his own music and they were going to skin him alive, while his music played. After they did this, they were going to take the skin – she told how Charlie had taught her how to tan hides – and make purses out of them to sell to hippie shops…she giggled and said that then everybody would have a little piece of Frank.
“She said she and the ‘family’ had a lot of resentment toward Sinatra. His songs didn’t have any message for one thing. And they thought that Frank had too much political power and involvement…all of this went against their grain.”
Deep resentment also apparently smouldered against pop singer Jones, as Mrs. Graham relates:
“She resented Tom Jones’ voice. He didn’t sing as well as Charlie, according to her. Yet he had all that success and Charlie couldn’t get his voice on record even.
“This murder was a problem for Sadie, she told me. She didn’t really want him killed, or at least she had second thoughts because she was sexually attracted to Jones.
“What she wanted to do is to get him in a position and force him to have sex with her at knife point, and…she was going to slit his throat.
Miss Atkins did not go into as much detail on actor McQueen, Mrs. Graham said.
“Most of all she thought he was a phony and that he had too many political inspirations. She didn’t talk about how they were going to do him in.”
“She also mentioned that they had some contact with Terry Melcher, Doris Day’s son. He was another guy they didn’t like because he promised to make arrangements for Charlie about some recordings but didn’t keep his word.”
Mrs. Graham’s testimony at the current trial of Manson, Miss Atkins and two others — Patricia Krenwinkel, 22, and Leslie Van Houten, 19 — will not include this story, but it probably will be introduced at the subsequently penalty trial, if the prosecution wins a conviction.
Accompanied to court by attorney’s Robert Steinberg and Ed Stanley, Mrs. Graham testified briefly yesterday on the limited question of how many times she had been questioned by law enforcement agents about Miss Atkins’ statements on the Tate murders.
The witness scheduled to follow Mrs. Graham to the stand is Ronni Howard, 31, who also was assigned to Dormitory 8000 last November.
Mrs. Howard, whose charges of forging a prescription were later dismissed, was the first person to tell police of Miss Atkins’ tale about being involved in the Tate estate slayings.
The information provided to detectives by Mrs. Howard in mid-November of last year “broke” the case. A few days later, Mrs. Graham, who had been transferred to Corona Institution for Women, added her account. Mrs. Graham is testifying first because Miss Atkins first related the murder account to her.
Police Chief Edward M. Davis announced the arrests Dec. 1 and indictments were returned a week later by the County Grand Jury.
By WILLIAM FARR
Sadie sure had a passion for exaggeration and showmanship during her early initial lockup at Sybil Brand! She obviously enjoyed her time in the limelight, with her rapt cell mates, as she bragged about and often embellished her role in the murders. One has to wonder if she was really so stupid as to assume that her big mouth wouldn’t eventually land her and her cohorts in a world of trouble. There’s no doubt that the killers would have eventually been revealed anyway, but Susan’s hyperactive jaws sure didn’t help matters!
As far as her stories about life on the ranch, I have no doubt Charlie reenacted some obscene interpretation of the crucifixion, but I highly doubt any animals were sacrificed in the asinine ritual. It’s well known that he held wildlife in much higher regard than humankind and had forbidden his “children” to even harm the rats and rattlesnakes that slithered and slunk about the ranch.
According to “Helter Skelter”, the celebrity “hitlist” included some gruesome specifics that this particular publication was apparently hesitant to put in print. Liz Taylor’s trademark violet eyes and Richard Burton’s castrated member were to be placed in a jar and sent to Eddie Fisher. Tom Jones was to have his throat slit by Sadie during intercourse and at the moment of climax. Apparently she envisioned herself as some sort of human praying mantis? As for the “hiding” of ole blue eyes, perhaps they intended to play “I’ve got you under my skin”. (I know, poor taste!). I also read somewhere, not included in HS, that Doris Day was to be “raped and impaled”, probably in retaliation for Terry Melcher’s dissing of Charlie.
Honestly I think if Manson had some mild success as a musician none of this would have happened. He was at the ranch/these varied places as he was a homeless unemployed criminal with musical aspirations and a personality disorder. The social fabric of the 60’s drew homeless mixed up youth to him in the context of a permissive drug culture. Given the great deal of anger that he had towards society and the people that did nit recognize his musical genius- that’s why he went to Cielo. And it was familiarity with Waverly that caused him to end up there. I think all the rest of it about the upcoming race war and living in the desert is all blah blah blah bullshit – he said just to justify it to the hangers on and drugged out youth that lived there Who were looking for parental figures and direction in life. While they all benefitted from tons of sex and drugs.
It always amazes me that there are a few of them that really bought into it, the major one being Sandra good . It would be worth it to Google or listen to some of her crazy interviews over the years. She speaks extensively about the values that Charlie was promoting and so on and so forth. Honestly I think it was all bullshit
KIM: You make some interesting and salient points. In my view the Manson girls were easily led. It doesn’t surprise me that they bought into everything Manson said. The concept of Helter Skelter is bullshit, you’re right about that. Interesting that Sandra Good says that Manson never preached about an upcoming race war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9BB9dclNFQ
I agree 100% with everything you said , Kim.
MATT- i’m not necessarily that smart but thanks. 😉 I just think it all comes down to Manson’s own selfishness and narcissism
PAUL JAMES- it still amazes me that the woman were that easily led to such extremes. Sandra Good is someone who I think was dangerous for many years. It’s unbelievable the things she said afterwards. She did not Babylon about helter-skelter but maintained Manson’s altruistic motivations with concern of the Earth the planet all living things water air blah blah blah
I can draw a straight line to Cielo as Manson was screwed out of re-enacting Beatlemania. Waverly is just not entirely clear to me. But I don’t want to go on about it or speculate more out of sensitivity to others
TYPO
** babble- on. ** ( not Babylon 🙈)
I still suffer the loss of this beautiful woman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFvisDqeKc
One of the comments on this short clip sums up my feelings …
Che bella e simpatica che era, che siano maledetti per l’eternità i suoi aguzzini.
How beautiful and nice she was, may her tormentors be cursed for eternity.
Without getting personal and it’s none of my business, did you know her personally. As I said it’s really none of my business -one does not have to know the individual person to feel a loss
KIM: SEAN asked me if I knew Sharon personally and I said no but it’s not that simple. I feel like I know her and maybe I do. I know that sounds somewhat cryptic and that’s unintentional but I have reasons for saying that. Some things are hard to explain. She has made a big impression on me. She knows I love her.
Unrelated to what I have just said but something I want to say. Sharon was catholic and when in her last moments she called out “Mother, Mother” I believe she was calling out to Mary to save her unborn son. I don’t know if this has been suggested before. It’s just what I feel.
Paul James. It’s OK. I get it and you don’t have to explain. For a lot of different reasons we can feel moved or touched or related in someway to people that we haven’t actually met .
You are very kind, KIM. Thank you.
I am acutely aware that there are other victims and their families; they are never forgotten by me even though my comments have been mostly about Sharon.
KIM – I know I don’t have to explain but I think I should try to do just that for my own peace of mind, otherwise I sound like a lovestruck teen at the age of 74. I need to work out how to do this without writing a book. The crux of the matter is that it would be a lie if I told you I have met Sharon (I may have but not knowingly) but it would also be a lie if I denied knowing her. As a matter of fact, as a teen I had a crush on Patty Duke, who eventually became a friend of Sharon’s, and co-star in Valley of the Dolls. The Patty Duke show was aired from 1963 to 1966.
Sharon was murdered in 1969 and I saw the news on TV but it made little impression on me at the time as I was only vaguely aware of her as an actress. I was 20 and Sharon was 26. I didn’t know her and didn’t think about it.
I married and had 3 lovely children but after 25 years of marriage we separated and eventually divorced. I then embarked on numerous short term relationships in the vain hope of finding ‘the one’. Something was always felt to be missing. I blame myself more than anyone I dated.
As I became accustomed to living alone something happened from time to time that was both wonderful and frustrating. I started to have dreams that occurred infrequently but always just before waking. The dreams would sometimes happen two or three times on consecutive days then not again for weeks or months. There was nothing predictable about there frequency. I adored those dreams because I was with someone who made me feel loved in a way I never had in my life before. There’s little to say about the dreams other than it felt like I was with the one person I had always been searching for. I would awake feeling amazing but gradually the dream would fade away and I would struggle to remember any clear details including who this woman was that made me feel this way. There was nothing sexual about the dreams it was just me and her outside in the sunshine and being with each other. It may sound boring but it was a beyond beautiful feeling of togetherness.
This went on for almost two decades. I longed for those dreams but I had no control over when they would happen. One day, and I don’t know what made me do this, but I was reading something and I found myself having to google Sharon Stone and Sharon Tate as I knew very little about either of them. That was the beginning of me feeling like a veil was lifting and I recognized the smile of the woman I had been with in those dreams. I started to research everything about her and I’m still doing that today. I feel like I have finally found the one I was always searching for but could never find.
The dreams have long been replaced by a sense of connection that is with me always. I recall a line from ‘Days’ by The Kinks, which was released as a single in 1968.
“And though you’re gone,
You’re with me every single day, believe me.”
Thank you for the days, Sharon. When my time on this earth is at an end, I truly believe I will be reunited with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuUoSuO_hfg
Since this revelation I haven’t had any more of those dreams but
I was
The last two lines are the result of bad editing. I didn’t fall asleep mid sentence lol
I know that it’s a stretch of the imagination for anyone to believe I know Sharon through those dreams or that I have a connection. It was very real to me, but just as I didn’t know who I was with, until many years later, neither did I have a time or place reference. I don’t pretend to understand, all I can do is accept the reality of these interactions as they appeared to me. All I can think is that any connection we have was not formed out of the blue and was pre-existing. I try not to second guess things. Maybe one day I’ll have something tangible as proof or else I’ll find out in the afterlife, if there is one.
Paul James
It’s OK We know you are
considerate of all of the victims and their families
I want to thank you and commend you for sharing what you did. It takes a lot of guts to open up and be vulnerable. I think you know that you have our respect . I am glad that you had some consolation for lack of a better word. There are a lot of different reasons why events and people not related to us can individually move us. I think a lot of us on this forum that participated regularly have that commonality, although our experiences of it and why etc are vastly different. So that being said, again, I commend you for opening up and sharing that.
It’s strange sometimes how things appear on my Facebook timeline as if it’s reading my mind.
“When you remember me, it means that you have carried something of who I am with you, that I have left some mark of who I am on who you are. It means that you can summon me back to your mind even though countless years and miles may stand between us. It means that if we meet again, you will know me. It means that even after I die, you can still see my face and hear my voice and speak to me in your heart.
For as long as you remember me, I am never entirely lost. When I’m feeling most ghost-like, it is your remembering me that helps remind me that I actually exist. When I’m feeling sad, it’s my consolation. When I’m feeling happy, it’s part of why I feel that way.
If you forget me, one of the ways I remember who I am will be gone. If you forget, part of who I am will be gone.”
― Frederick Buechner , Whistling in the Dark: A Doubter’s Dictionary
Thanks again for your kind words, KIM.
Of course you’re right Kim, Bugliosi knew it was BS too, but he needed it to convict Manson. One can only speculate about what goes on inside the head of a madman, so who knows what Charlie actually believed. He sure sold Paul Watkins on the concept. Just think how many drug-addled rap sessions were argued in the trailer next to George Spahn’s ranch house. Years later, when presented with the CIA theory, Watkins dismissed it as hogwash and was resolute that Helter Skelter was the motive. Makes sense. Manson needed something more substantial than his personal thirst for revenge to make killers out of high school football stars and homecoming queens! According to Watkins, when the White Album was released, Charlie turned dark on a dime. Paul began to realize that his guru was becoming obsessed with instilling fear in others, and becoming uneasy himself, decided he’d seen enough. That was around May of ‘69.
I’ve often wondered what the catalyst was. Apparently, it was after returning from a short trip to Big Sur that Charlie announced “now is the time for Helter Skelter”. But what the hell happened up at Big Sur? I don’t recall exactly who was up there with him but I think Stephanie Schramm may have been at his side. She was fairly new to the family and had become Charlie’s latest flame. He deeply admired what he perceived to be her “Aryan” attributes and boasted that she was the product of thousands of years of perfect breeding. Is it possible that she shunned him? Whatever the matter, he came back to Spahn plenty pissed off.
We know now that poor Gary Hinman was essentially a rehearsal for the big event to come. Charlie arrived there with Bruce and more than likely recognized the fear that his presence created. Not only on the part of Hinman but quite possibly on his minions as well. He may have experienced a similar sensation when he shot Bernard “lotsapoppa” Crowe months earlier. “Charlie really got off on fear” Watkins would later tell Bugliosi. So as August 8th drew near, he was not only confidently equipped with the power of creating fear but also with the knowledge that his “children” would kill for him.
The first night was a loyalty test for his most devoted and dedicated. Would they actually kill for me? Of course, any doubts he may have had quickly dissipated after their triumphant return. I think a huge reason he went with them the next night was not to simply “show them how to do it”, as Kasabian recalled, but rather to experience another “climax” of instilling fear. A “fear vampire” if you will. He undoubtedly achieved that “rush” when he encroached upon the poor LaBiancas.
Sean- I had to read your post a few times. Super well written. You also go over some details that I have forgotten about. I think I’m going to re-read the book HS, that’s actually the only one that I’ve read on the subject . And yes what was the catalyst, the final straw so to speak . Something clearly yanked his chain to make him lash out. He really wanted to pay back the community and terrorize them
On another note I really have gotten in touch with the fact that I just feel awful for the families of the victims, victims themselves. That’s just more real to me this year given how things went with LVH and hearing from individuals. Imagine having to relive all this every time talk of parole comes up
I think that Charlie would have created any elaborate story to get his minions to kill for him for his bruised ego revenge. HS may have been the motive in Tex’s drug soaked mind. In that state, he believed any crap that Charlie spewed. As far as his attitude after coming back from Big Sur. He played for the Esalen Institute to get a position there playing for the guests. They didn’t like him and asked him to leave. Thought he had no talent. I am sure that his vibe did not scream peace and yoga. That may have been the straw on the Camel’s back for his ego. Stephanie said that he was livid all the way back to Spahn. As far as Charlie going to the Labianca house. I believe that Charlie had no intentions in getting his hands dirty but did not want Tex to end up getting the glory of starting HS. He ran the show but did not do the deed.
Agree. Bruised ego revenge. That’s it in a nutshell
– still The depravity gets me. The first night wasn’t enough we had to destroy the lives of innocent every day people the second night.. and the trauma plays out to this day where 55 years later people have to show up a parole hearing. I hope at least doing that is maybe empowering for some of the victims but that’s a topic for another day or a thread or maybe not at all I don’t know
Thanks for chiming in Matt. I wasn’t sure about Stephanie’s presence at Big Sur so I appreciate you corroborating that detail. The last thing I want to do is spew inaccuracies here! As for the story about the Esalen Institute, that’s something I was not aware of. Fascinating! You can certainly imagine how that would provide further impetus for his roiling anger and the subsequent atrocities. It just once again speaks to how senseless and actually ridiculous these murders were! These people died horrible deaths all because of the emotional insecurity and immaturity of a man living on the fringe of social acceptance. His home had been the penal system and his instructors the dregs of humanity. Sad, of course, but no excuse for the heinous revenge he exacted on these innocent souls.
Thanks for your response as well Kim. As weird as this sounds, for some reason this case inspires me to sit here in my recliner with my iPhone and repeatedly contemplate this storied episode in the annals of crime. Even if my observations shed no new light on these matters, it still proves stimulating to rehash it with you all. OMG, after almost 55 years it continues to captivate us! As for rereading HS, despite some people on these threads taking issue with it, I still find it to be the definitive document of this case. While it’s not quite in the eloquent class of Capote’s masterpiece “In Cold Blood”, it does present a very factual account of the events as they unfolded. You can criticize Vincent Bugliosi all you want, but you must admit that he had unparalleled knowledge of, and extraordinary access to, the facts and the evidence.
And Michael, thanks again for the links that you post. That last one of Sharon and Gassman offers yet another special moment in her life that is rarely seen. We all certainly recognize her obvious and striking physical beauty but I am often taken by just how unbearably “cute” she was, if you get my meaning. Yes, there was an unquestionable innocence, but there was also a certain sophistication as well. She never came off as a dumb blond. I recently watched the Matt Helm classic “The Wrecking Crew” and I think my feelings are exemplified here. While certainly not a cinematic milestone, Sharon does shine in this film. I honestly believe that she was really starting to come into her own. Her acting prowess was improving with every film and she was proving herself as a deft comedienne as well. It just emphasizes the tragedy when you consider what might have been.
Sean, it’s good to know you find the links I post interesting. I marvel at the depth of your knowledge so I always look forward to reading your posts. I know a lot about Sharon but I’m on a steep learning curve in respect of Manson and his so called family of followers.
This is a very short clip from 12 + 1 but it’s good image quality.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vnWzEHBQMlk
“Sharon wrote this letter to her grandmother on September 23, 1965, while filming her first feature “Eye of the Devil”. It was written at the Château de Castel-Novel in France.”
Do you, or KIM or MATT or BILL think this letter is genuine? Fascinating if it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0nBOajS9I
Paul James. Both yourself and Louise
Have been posting links and I really like them. I don’t know enough about these things to comment intelligently about the letter but it looks to be real. All of you post such salient comments really
Interesting find. Looks pretty damn genuine to me! The letter of authenticity seems to bear this out. Were they auctioning it off? And if so, I wonder what it fetched. The post marks all look legitimate. Notice she mentions Jay, who she was seeing at that time. Seems on the level.
By the way Paul, have you ever seen “12+1”? Was it ever even finished and released? That was Terry Thomas in that snippet with her. I’ve never seen hide nor hair of that one. Another question for you : she was obviously dubbed for “Eye of the Devil”, but what about “Fearless Vampire Killers”? I recently watched that as well (been on a bit of a Sharon kick since finding this site) and was curious if that was her voice. I know you’re not big on Polanski but was wondering if you knew.
SEAN – I did some digging and that letter is genuine. It sold for $2,299
12 + 1 is available to watch free with ads on Amazon Prime in the UK. The picture quality and sound is good. It’s in Italian but there are English subtitles if you need them. If you search ‘Sharon Tate’ on Prime you should see which movies are available in your region. The English version was called Thirteen Chairs but I believe it was released on DVD under the 12 + 1 title although I haven’t found one to purchase yet.
You can watch the English version on YouTube but the quality isn’t great and it’s been created by matching the English soundtrack to the Italian movie. Apparently there are a lot of differences between the Italian version of this film, and the English one, including different opening titles, different music score, different opening scene filmed with a different actor, scenes in a different order, longer scenes in one version than another, and short scenes missing in one version etc. It’s here if you want to have a look …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFI5t-WHqM0
There is some interesting trivia on the Italian version …
The music score for the English language version of the film is the work of two great composers – the legendary Italian composer Stelvio Cipriani as music arranger and David Whitaker as composer of additional music for the score – he is best remembered for arranging and writing a distinctive passage for strings used in the Andrew Oldham Orchestra symphonic recording of The Rolling Stones song “The Last Time” in 1965 that was sampled in 1997 by The Verve for their classic song “Bitter Sweet Symphony”
Canadian producer Claude Giroux in London for the premiere of his film Ternos Caçadores (1969) at the London Film Festival on November 28 1969, stated that unless the murderers of Sharon Tate are found, he would not release “12 Plus 1” until after April 1970 – this despite the fact that the movie had been playing in Italian cinemas already for a month. Giroux, founder of the Gold Star Stamp company in the early 50s, former president and chairman of the board of Allied Artists Pictures and then president of Compagnie Française de Coproduction Internationale (COFCI) based in Paris had one definite statement to make: “If the murderers are discovered then the movie is finished,” he said. “It’s a comedy, and, let’s face it, no one wants to watch a comedy when the star has been wiped out in a real-life drama.” He went on to say that the movie had been jinxed from the start and that the movie, originally titled ‘Thirteen,’ had been renamed “12 Plus 1” for superstitious reasons. “Miss Tate said that her very first movie Eye of the Devil (1966) had been originally called ‘Thirteen’ and she had hoped this was not going to be her first and last film. We laughed and assured her otherwise, but I changed it to ’12 Plus 1,’ ” Giroux said. He then related a series of mishaps that hit his movie before he changed its title – members of the camera crew were injured when an actor’s foot slipped off the brake to the accelerator and his car plunged into them, a young actress fell down steps and broke her jaw, an assistant director suffered a heart attack and leading man Vittorio Gassman fell ill with hepatitis. “You could say that the whole business ceased to be a joke when Miss Tate told me she was pregnant. I used to not be superstitious. But I certainly am now ” Giroux said. Two days after the Festival premiere, on December 1 1969, Los Angeles Police Department announced warrants for the arrests in the Tate case. “12 Plus 1” eventually opened in US cinemas May 1 1970 released through Avco Embassy but would have an erratic release pattern throughout the world in coming years, opening as late as September 1980 in Sweden and in Australia not theatrically at all but as a home video release in 1985.
Being fluent in Italian (with only a slight accent), Sharon Tate dubbed herself in the Italian version.
Terry-Thomas remembered Sharon in his 1990 autobiography “Terry Thomas Tells Tales”: “On the first day of filming 12 Plus 1 on location in London’s Jermyn Street, Sharon Tate came up and introduced herself. She said, quietly, ‘I must tell you something before we start working together. I can’t act, but I somehow get by without anyone realizing, so don’t worry.’ Actually, Sharon turned out to share a distinction with Lena Horne – they were the only two performers I ever knew who were entirely ‘natural’ before the camera. Everybody else, method actors (and T-T too!) automatically took on a different stance and manner, as soon as the cameras started rolling. So there were no difficulties with Sharon. We were like a double act. She was nice, intelligent and pretty. I wish I had been able to see the finished film. I’ve never been able to catch it.”
As regards the alleged dubbing of Sharon’s voice on “Eye of the Devil” I have heard conflicting stories so I’m not totally convinced that’s not her voice in the movie. I don’t think there’s any question of Sharon’s voice being dubbed in “Fearless Vampire Killers”. Roman had plenty of time to work on the desired accent with her, so no I don’t think she’s dubbed on that movie.
SEAN K. – Sharon’s voice wasn’t dubbed in Fearless Vampire Killers but Polanski’s voice was; dubbed by actor David Spencer.
While all appeared to be going well between Sharon and Roman, things were soon to erupt for them both with Ransohoff. The previous year, Roman had signed a three-picture deal and contract that gave Ransohoff final editorial control for the US release of Dance of the Vampires, but the producer didn’t stop with a few film cuts. Despite Roman’s expressed concerns, Ransohoff gave the film a complete makeover, including a new title, Fearless Vampire Killers. What’s worse, he dubbed over Polanski’s voice with that of actor David Spencer. Upon viewing the final cut, Roman stormed out of the screening room and straight to a press interview with Variety. His public chastising of Ransohoff hit the newsstands the next day. “What I made was a funny, spooky fairy tale, and Ransohoff turned it into a kind of Transylvanian Beverly Hillbillies.”
Statman, Alisa; Tate, Brie. Restless Souls (Enhanced Edition) (p. 42). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
Sorry Paul! Don’t know why I called you Michael!
I noticed but realised it was just a momentary lapse so didn’t say anything. Never an issue.
You can’t honestly expect to restrain someone with a bath towel… especially a person Frykowski’s size… and I want the truth about William Garretson!!!
I always thought there were strange parts to the story of W. Garretson. William and Altobelli and William and Steven. The fact that he came to LA with no money and not knowing anyone except a friend that lived on base and in no time was living in the country mansion on the hill, That Altobelli trusted him instantly with his dogs and his property. And with Steven, I have always thought that it was so strange for him to drive that distance to sell a clock radio to someone that he met once, no even knowing if he would be home.
My suspicion has always been that Garretson and Stephen had some sort of late night sexual hook-up, which makes a lot more sense than driving up to the house to sell him a clock-radio. Altobelli was also gay so probably had some sort of fling or crush on Garretson and let him stay on the property in return for caretaking.
Back in those days it was not something you talked about or told the police. Today it would not have been a big deal.
Matt- yes of course very good point. Otherwise, do you think there is anything else to know about William? I mean it sounds like he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
The questions and uncertainty surrounding Garretson’s role in the murders persist to this day. I find his story to be a very enigmatic element indeed. In fact, it was my interest in him that led me to this site in the first place. I was curious about his current status, googled him and eventually landed here! Glad I did because I find this place endlessly fascinating. Of course, it was here that I learned Garretson passed away some time ago. In many ways, his is a tragic situation as well. Can you imagine living all those subsequent years with those horrific images burned in your memory banks?
I seriously have to question the idea of a sexual encounter between he and Steven Parent. For one thing, I believe it was determined in the medical examination that no semen was present. I also believe that Parent worked at a stereo store in the vicinity of Sunset Boulevard and that’s why he had previously given Garretson a ride up to Cielo Drive. Think about it, you’re eighteen years old and a new acquaintance has invited you to “drop by anytime” to visit him at the estate of a movie star. You can certainly imagine how Parent might have been enticed to act on such an invitation, even if the excuse was to hawk a clock radio in the dead of night.
As far as the possibility that Garretson witnessed the murders? I have serious reservations about that as well. I believe in his ORIGINAL account of the events and his subsequent testimony at the trial. And remember, he also passed a polygraph test when initially interrogated, stating that he saw and heard nothing.
Unfortunately, decades later Garretson decided to volunteer that he HAD indeed witnessed the slaughter. Using the ridiculous excuse that he was “scared” to come forward for years, he suddenly found the “courage” to start telling what amounts to a pack of lies. His sudden newfound recollections were all over the place. Now he claims he had heard the gunshots, even though a sound test had been conducted by LAPD at the property that proved he couldn’t have heard them if he’d been listening to his stereo. Now he claims he heard a woman scream but assumed she was probably partying and fell in the pool. And still later he modifies that account to say that he actually heard Abigail Folger pleading with Krenwinkel to quit stabbing her because “I’m already dead”.
I remember actually seeing Garretson in one of these absurd interviews (I think it was Inside Edition or some like tabloid show) and I draw the same conclusion as I did then : Malarkey!
PAUL – Wow! That’s quite a story about “12 plus 1” and Terry-Thomas. Thanks for the backstory, I marvel at your knowledge as well. I’d always heard she was dubbed in”Devil” but could be wrong. Just doesn’t sound like her natural tones…too low and sultry. If it is her she did a helluva job masking her real voice. Cute how she admitted she couldn’t act. So unpretentious and comfortable in her own skin. Granted, she was never going to be another Kate Hepburn, but she definitely had presence. And what a sight to behold in the CinemaScope and technicolor majesty of that era!
You should watch 12 + 1. The version on Amazon Prime, via Freevee, seems to be the English version dubbed in Italian. This is Sharon’s finest performance yet and it’s special for me to listen to her speaking Italian, it’s such a sexy and expressive language.
KIM: Don’t ever worry about saying anything about the Waverly Dr question–I am still asking many questions about why etc. myself. In fact, that is probably about 80 percent of the reason I am here. What I do know is both Dad and Rosemary were aware that something troubling and out of the norm was going on. What I don’t know is whether or not Sue and Frank were also aware or ??? I’m a little scared to find out even after all these years but I am going to be talking to Tom O’neill in a few weeks–evidently he interviewed them both for his book, although he didn’t write about it. I’m just getting my courage up for a few weeks, sad stuff but important. I’m pretty seasoned on the subject, have “heard it all” over the years! Please say whatever is on your mind always–best way to sift through the whole thing. Thank you ☮️
Bless you, Louise. It’s always good to talk to you and I know that sometimes you need to take a break. I think we are all sensitive to your needs and respect your boundaries. I’m happy that you are going to be talking to Tom. I hope you get answers to things that may have been puzzling you. Take care.
It took me a day or two, to find how this chat discussion was cataloged. Sorry for my late reply
Hi Louise. Thanks for saying that and I think it’s also pretty generous of you given the circumstances of everything . I tend to be more on the direct side so I guess I want to be careful and considerate and not intrusive . . I am shocked to hear that your parents heard that something was off and that sue and frank might have known that also. Is this because these people were sneaking in the house doing these creepy Crawly missions or whatever the hell they called them. That’s terrifying to think about. That there were weirdos in the house while the family was sleeping . I think a lot about that beautiful picture of your dad and you around that time I’m not familiar with Tom O’Neill. This is someone that wrote a book? Well I hope it helps you out. I guess my concern would be that sometimes people try to exploit other people for fame etc.
Of course you want answers and honestly I don’t blame you and I don’t think that the passage of time takes away that need. I guess it’s just a question of being careful about how you put yourself out there so as to not be exploited in forums or sensationalized but at the same time to be able to get the information
Gosh I hope I’m making sense 🙈
Thank you, PAUL JAMES! All is well.
Ditto Louise, and good to hear your voice again! Exciting news to hear you will be speaking with Tom O’Neill. Good luck and I hope it is as beneficial for you as I’m sure it will be for him. I read some of Chaos online – an edited version that omits key elements in order to encourage people to buy it. I found his theories to be very provocative indeed. There are many perplexing questions about this case that persist to this day. Glad to hear you are doing well.
Sean and Paul James and Louise
– OK well you guys clearly think this Tom is a good source and that’s good enough for me
I’m going to Google this. As I mentioned honestly it’s only the HS book that I read. Otherwise internet things online over the years
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