LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, TUESDAY, AUGUST 17, 1971
9:45 A.M.
-- oOo --
THE COURT: Good morning.
Good morning, gentlemen.
MR. KAY: Good morning, your Honor.
MR. BUBRICK: Good morning your Honor.
THE COURT: People against Watson.
Let the record show all our jurors are present; defendant and all counsel are present.
Mr. Bugliosi.
MR. BUGLIOSI: The bailiff is getting Linda now, your Honor.
THE CLERK: You have been previously sworn.
Would you restate your name for the record?
THE WITNESS: Linda Kasabian.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
LINDA KASABIAN,
resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) BY MR. BUGLIOSI:
Q: Linda, while you were on the Tate premises did you notice any lights on the premises?
A: Yes.
Q: Where did you see these lights?
A: I guess it was the garage; it was a big spotlight over the garage; and at the front door there was a light.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph previously marked people's 16.
May it be remarked people's 16?
THE COURT: It will be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you people's 16 for identification.
Do you know what is shown on that photograph, Linda?
A: Yes, it is the light, the spotlight.
Q: Now, you notice that on this photograph -- this was used during the previous trial -- there is a light; there is a circle around it and then there is an arrow and it says, "Light that Linda testified she saw on."
Is that all correct on this photograph?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here another photograph, your Honor, previously marked 111.
May it be remarked people's 111?
THE COURT: Before we get to that, on 16 is that the light on the front of the house or the garage?
MR. BUGLIOSI: No, this is the garage.
THE COURT: Is that right, Mrs. Kasabian?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
Now, one hundred what?
MR. BUGLIOSI: 111.
Q: Do you know what is shown on this photograph, Linda?
A: Yeah, it's the light on the front porch.
Q: This is the light right to the right of the front door of the Tate residence?
A: To my left.
Q: Right. Facing the house, the light is to the left of the front door?
A: Right.
Q: And coming out, it is to the right; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Was that light on on the night of the murders?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Getting back to your driving away from the Tate residence, where had the car been parked in relation to the residence?
A: I didn't hear the question.
Q: Where had the car been parked in relation to the residence?
A: The car that we drove up in?
Q: Yes, John Swartz' car.
A: At the bottom of the hill.
Q: At the bottom of the driveway?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here another photograph previously marked people's 25 for identification. May it be remarked people's 25?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Looking at people's 25, it is an aerial photograph of the Tate residence and surrounding area. In the upper left-hand corner there is an X and writing "Where defendants parked car."
Is that where the car was parked? Orient yourself to the photograph.
A: Yes.
Q: So the marking on this photograph here, people's 25, is correct; is that right?
A: Right.
Q: As you were driving away from the Tate residence Tex was driving the car?
THE COURT: Mr. Bugliosi, before you show the witness the photographs, would you be good enough to show them to the defense counsel.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Yes. These have been here for about a half hour on the desk. I told them we were going to use these photographs.
THE COURT: Still they should be shown the one you are going to use.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I will show them to them the second time.
Q: As you were driving away from the Tate residence, did Katie and Sadie say anything to you?
A: Yes. They made mention that -- Sadie specifically said that when she was struggling with the man that he hit her over the head and that the victims were pulling her hair and Katie mentioned that her hand hurt, something about when she was stabbing that, you know, she came across bones or something and it was hard -- it hurt her hand, the palm of her hand.
THE COURT: Would you read that back, please.
(Record read.)
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Did Katie say that either one of the two girls --
MR. BUBRICK: I object to that as being leading, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I haven't asked the question yet.
THE COURT: The way you started out.
MR. BUGLIOSI: The question is did Sadie say any of the two girls had said anything?
THE COURT: Katie -- what was that?
MR. BUGLIOSI: Did Katie say any of the girls inside the residence had said anything?
THE COURT: I will allow that.
THE WITNESS: Yes. She said something about one of them was crying out for her mother and she said, "Oh, God," or something like that.
THE COURT: Would you try to keep your voice up, please. We will have to have the microphone adjusted again.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: What was your state of mind, Linda, as Tex was driving away from the Tate residence?
A: I was just really scared.
Q: You say Tex said that he was looking for a place to burn the clothing?
MR. BUBRICK: She didn't say anything like that. Leading and suggestive.
THE COURT: She said something about that yesterday.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: You say Tex said that he was looking for a place to burn the clothing?
A: Yes.
Q: And also a place to wash the blood off their bodies.
A: Yes.
Q: Did Tex eventually stop the car?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: And where did he stop the car?
A: At the bottom of the hill.
Q: How far was this place from the Tate residence?
A: Not very far, a few minutes.
Q: Was this on a residential street?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Was it a level street or a hilly street or what?
A: There was a hill there, yeah.
Q: And Tex did what now with the car?
A: Excuse me?
Q: What did Tex do with the car?
A: At the car?
Q: What did he do with the car? He parked it somewhere.
A: Yes. We drove up a hill on the street, then turned around and parked. We spotted a hose and a little bit past the hose he parked.
Q: Where was the hose in relation to the house?
A: In front of the house.
Q: Would you recognise that house if you saw it again?
A: Yeah, I think so.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph previously marked People's 43.
May it be remarked People's 43?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Linda, I show you, People's 43 for identification.
Do you know what is shown on this photograph?
A: Yes, it is the house and the hose and the hedge.
Q: Now, there is a hose extending out from the house into the street; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Tex did not park the car in front of the house; is that correct?
A: No, he didn't.
MR. BUBRICK: Has the photo been marked yet?
THE COURT: 43.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Yes, 43
Q: Tex parked the car at the bottom of the hill?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, once he parked the car at the bottom of the hill, what is the next thing that happened?
A: We all got out and walked up to the hose and Tex pulled the hose from the driveway sort of in front of the house, out to the street by the hedge.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here another photograph previously marked People's 44.
May it be remarked People's 44?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you People's 44 for identification, Linda.
Do you know what is shown on that photograph?
A: Yeah, the house and the hedge, the road, the hose and approximately where we parked the car.
Q: Now, on this photograph, here in the upper right-hand corner there is a car; is is encircled in red, there is an arrow and there is some writing, "Where Tex parked car."
Are all of those markings correct?
A: Yes.
Q: This car, of course, is not Johnny Swartz car?
A: No, not in the picture, no.
Q: After Tex pulled the hose out into the street, what is the next thing that happened?
A: They started washing themselves.
Q: When you say "they," about whom are you referring?
A: Katie, Sadie and Tex.
Q: Washing the blood off their bodies?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: After about half a minute, I guess, some lady came out, she started screaming, "Who's there? What are you doing?" Something like that; and Tex very calmly said, "We are getting a drink of water"; and her husband came out.
I don't really remember if she said it or he said it, but it was mentioned that he was a sheriff's deputy or some kind of a police officer and he asked us if that was our car. He pointed to the car down the road and Tex said, no, that we were walking; and about that point, he started walking towards the car and we ran to the car and jumped in and the man reached his hand into the car and tried to take the keys out of the ignition, which didn't happen and Tex just very fast drove away.
Q: Did anyone talk to this man other than Tex?
Did you or Katie or Sadie say anything --
A: No.
Q: -- just Tex spoke to him?
Again, showing you People's 43 for identification, there are two markings on this photograph, one marking says, "Where a Mr. Weber saw four people; another says, "Where defendants hosed themselves off."
Are these markings correct; is this appropriately where Tex, Katie and Sadie were washing themselves off?
A: Yes.
Q: Was it very dark down by the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Could you describe the man and the woman who came out of the house?
A: They were old, short, the man had white hair; I can't really remember the lady.
Q: They were both short?
A: I think so, yeah.
Q: You say the man had white hair?
A: Yeah.
Q: Showing you People's 45 again, does that appear to be the man you saw that night?
A: I'm not positive, but he's got white hair, looks like him.
Q: You didn't get a good look at him?
A: No.
THE COURT: You said, "showing you 45 again."
I don't believe you introduced 45.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I'm sorry, your Honor, it was previously marked People's 45.
May it be remarked People's 45?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: The man shown in People's 45 has white hair and that's the only thing that you remember about him; right?
A: Yeah, and that he was old.
Q: About how old?
A: I don't know, 60, maybe, something like that.
Q: So he was around 60 years old and he had white hair; beyond that, you cannot describe him?
A: No.
Q: And his wife was about the same age?
A: Yeah.
Q: Where is the next place you went to after you drove away from this hosing incident?
A: Well, we were driving and Tex had me wipe the fingerprints off of the knife and he pulled off onto a dirt shoulder of the road and told me to throw the clothes out of the car, which I got out of the car and did.
Q: What clothing is that?
A: The bloody clothes.
Q: Belonging to whom?
A: Tex, Sadie and Katie.
Q: So they each gave you their clothing?
A: Yes.
Q: And you got out of the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Where was this area where you got out of the car?
A: I don't know the area; it was on a road.
Q: Was it a residential area or was it out in the country?
A: It was out in the country.
Q: Did there seem to be quite a few homes around?
A: No.
Q: Very few homes?
A: Yes.
Q: Was it a hilly area?
A: Yes.
Q: Straight road or winding road?
A: Winding road.
Q: Was it dark?
A: Yes.
Q: Tex pulled the car where, now?
A: Off into a dirt shoulder from the road.
Q: And he told you what?
A: To throw the clothes out.
Q: And you got out of the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Tex, Katie and Sadie stay in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you, in fact, throw the clothing --
A: Yes.
Q: -- over the aids of the hill?
A: Yes.
Q: Separately, or in one bundle, or what?
A: Just in one bundle.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a pair of blue jeans previously marked People's 56 for identification.
May they be remarked People's 56?
THE COURT: They may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Have you ever seen these blue jeans before, or pants similar to this; were they in the car that night?
A: Well, we all wore pants like that, Levi's.
Q: So these look like the type that were in the car that night?
A: Yeah.
Q: Do you know who was wearing these?
A: No, not specifically, no.
Q: Is this one of the articles of clothing that you threw over the side of the hill, to your knowledge?
A: Probably, yeah.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here, your Honor, a black pair of pants, previously marked People's 55.
May they be marked People's 55?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Do these black pants look familiar to you?
A: I am not sure. I mean --
Q: Do they?
A: They are dark clothes. They all had dark clothes.
Q: Do they resemble a pair of pants that you threw over the hill?
A: Yes.
Q: How many articles of clothing did you throw over the side of the hill?
A: I didn't count them.
Q: Were you given a top and a bottom of all three -- Tex, Sadie and Katie, their tops and their bottoms?
A: I imagine so but, you know, I didn't look at these individually.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here another article, you Honor, of clothing previously marked people's 54 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 54?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Have you ever seen this article of clothing before?
A: Yes. It is a T-shirt that, you know, we had.
Q: Would you repeat that?
A: It is a T-shirt that, you know, we had at the ranch that somebody wore.
Q: Do you know who was wearing this on the night of the Tate murders?
A: Well, I know Sadie had a big T-shirt on. If that is the one I don't know.
Q: Was it this color?
A: Yes, Navy blue.
Q: This looks like one of the pair or one of the articles of clothing that you threw over the side of the hill?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have another pair of pants, your Honor, previously marked people's 51.
May they be remarked people's 51?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Do you recognize this pair of clothing?
A: Another pair of Navy blue pants.
Q: I have shown you three pair so far. Were Katie, Sadie and Tex all wearing, as you say, dark clothing?
A: Yes.
Q: And dark pants?
A: Yes.
Q: All three of them?
A: Yes, they were.
Q: None of them had a one-piece suit on? They were all wearing dark pants?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here, your Honor, another article of clothing previously marked people's 50 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 50?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Have you ever seen this black velour sweater before?
A: Yes, I definitely remember Tex wore that.
Q: So Tex was wearing this particular article of clothing that night?
A: Yes.
Q: And is this one of the items that you threw over the side of the hill?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here a black T-shirt, your Honor, previously marked people's 52 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 52?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Do you recall seeing this black T-shirt that night?
A: Yes. I definitely remember Katie had that one.
Q: Patricia Krenwinkel was wearing this article?
A: Yes.
Q: And this is one of the items that you threw over the side of the hill?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here another black velour pullover previously marked -- I will withdraw that, your Honor, it is a different article.
I have here a white T-shirt, Linda, previously marked people's 53.
May it be remarked people's 53, your Honor?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Do you recall seeing anything white that night on any of the people in the car: Tex, Katie, or Sadie?
A: I don't think so.
Q: So you remember that they were all dressed in black, black tops or dark tops and dark bottoms?
A: Yes.
Q: But you don't recall any white T-shirt?
A: No.
Q: This place where you threw the clothing over the side of the hill, how far was that from the place where Tex, Katie and Sadie hosted the blood off their bodies?
A: I don't know in miles or distance, but it wasn't very far.
Q: A couple of minutes away?
A: Yes.
Q: After you threw the clothing over the side of the hill, you got back into the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Tex drove off?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: I don't know, we were driving up hills, up and down, winding, and then he told me to throw the knives out and I did.
Q: You say the knives. Are you referring to the two knives that were in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: You started out with three knives that night.
A: Yes.
Q: And you ended up with two knives?
A: Right.
Q: You said something about fingerprints. What did Tex tell you to do with respect to fingerprints?
A: He told me to wipe them off, which I did.
Q: You were told to wipe the fingerprints off these two knives?
A: Yes.
Q: And you did that?
A: Yes.
Q: Then he told you to throw the knives where?
A: To throw them out.
Q: Out of the car?
A: Out of the car, yes.
Q: Did you do that?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Was the car is motion as you threw the knives out?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Do you know where the knives landed?
A: The first one I saw land in the bushes and the second one -- I had a hard time throwing them out and the second one bounced off the curb and landed in the read.
Q: With respect to the revolver that I showed you earlier, people's 40 for identification, do you remember whether or not you threw that out of the car?
A: I am not sure. I don't remember if I did.
Q: You don't know what happened to that revolver?
A: No.
Q: After you threw the clothing over the side of the hill and you threw the knives out of the car window, what is the next thing that happened?
A: We kept driving. It seems we were going down -- down a hill and then we started coming to city lights and we came to a gas station and Tex pulled into the gas station, ordered some gas, two dollars worth of gas, and told the girls to go in the ladies room and wash up and he went in and --
Q: He went where?
A: To the men's room.
And then they all came back. He came back. I don't know who came back first and who went first and then he had me drive and I drove back to the ranch.
Q: You say he had you drive.
Did he tell you to drive?
A: Yes.
Q: And you drove all the way back to Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: At the gasoline station did he buy some gas?
A: Yes.
Q: How much?
A: Two dollars worth.
Q: With cash?
A: Yeah.
Q: At the gas station did Tex say anything about money?
A: Yes, made mention that they took $70 from the house.
Q: Who said who took $70?
A: I think Tex did.
Q: Tex said what?
A: That he took some money, $70.
Q: From where?
A: I think it was $70. I am not sure how much.
Q: From where?
A: From the house.
Q: Do you know the approximate time that you arrived back to Spahn Ranch?
A: No.
Q: You arrived at the Tate residence at approximately midnight. How long after you were at the Tate residence did you arrive back at the Spahn Ranch, approximately?
A: A couple of hours, I guess.
Q: Was anyone waiting for you when you arrived back at Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes, Charlie.
Q: Who was that?
A: Charlie was.
Q: Charles Manson?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he by himself?
A: Yes, he was.
Q: He was waiting for you on the parking lot?
A: Yes, about the same spot we had left.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Sadie said something about, she said she saw blood and so he -- he had all the three of us, the girls, go through the car and look for blood and Sadie went into the kitchen.
THE COURT: I didn't hear the end. Would you read that back, please.
(Record read.)
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Sadie saw blood where?
A: I am not sure. I think on the outside of the car, but I am not sure.
Q: Then you, Sadie, and Katie started looking throughout the car for blood spots?
A: I think so.
Q: Did you find any?
A: No, I didn't.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Sadie got a sponge and washed off the blood that she saw and Charlie told us to so into the bunk room, which we did, and I laid down. Everybody was sitting on the floor.
Q: When you arrived in the bunk room was anyone already there?
A: Yes.
Q: Who?
A: Brenda and Clem.
Q: Brenda McCann and Clem?
A: And Clem, yes.
Q: So there was you, Brenda McCann, Clem, Sadie and Katie?
A: Yes.
Q: Inside the bunk room?
A: Yes.
Q: What about Charlie and Tex?
A: They came in together a few minutes later.
Q: What happened inside the bunk room?
A: I don't know. I remember I was laying down and I was really tired and I heard Tex say to Charles something about he told the people that he was the Devil. He was there to do the Devil's work and then he started saying that there was a lot of fear and a lot of panic and it was really messy and that, I don't know, bodies were all over the place but they were all dead.
Q: Tex said this to Charlie?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did anyone else talk to Charlie other than Tex?
A: I don't remember.
Q: The only person you remember talking to Charlie was Tex?
A: Yeah.
THE COURT: Who said he was the Devil, Charlie or Tex?
THE WITNESS: Tex.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: So Tex told Charlie that he, Tex, told the people --
A: Yes.
Q: -- inside the residence --
A: Yes.
Q: -- that Tex was the Devil --
A: Right.
Q: -- there to do the Devil's work?
A: Yes.
Q: After Tex said these things to Charlie did Charlie say anything?
A: I think he just said not to talk about it and to go and get some sleep or something.
Q: Did Charlie say anything about remorse?
A: Oh, yeah; he asked us if we had any remorse and everybody said no, and I said no; but I did.
Q: And then Charlie told you to do what, go to bed?
A: Yeah.
Q: And not to say anything?
A: Not to say anything, yeah.
Q: He told that to all of you?
A: Yeah.
Q: And you, in fact, did go to bed?
A: Yes.
Q: The following day, that would be Saturday, August the 9th, 1969, were you at Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you watch any television that day?
A: Yeah, in the afternoon we did.
Q: In the trailer there at Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you see a television account of the murders?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you learn who the victims were?
A: Yes.
Q: Sharon Tate, Abigail Folger, et cetera?
A: Yes.
Q: Had you ever heard their names before?
A: No.
Q: That was the first time, then, that you knew who the victims had been?
A: Yes.
Q: On the way to the Tate residence or leaving the Tate residence did you hear Tex, Sadie or Katie mention these people' names?
A: No.
Q: Did you have dinner again at the ranch that night?
A: Yeah.
Q: After sundown?
A: Yes.
Q: And Charlie and Tex were there?
A: Yes.
Q: And the rest of the family?
A: Yeah, everybody was there.
Q: And what did you do after dinner that night>
A: I don't know. I remember I was in the kitchen with a bunch of girls and Charlie came in and called me and Leslie and Katie aside and told us to go get a change of clothing and he told me to get a driver's license, which we did.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: We all met in the bunk room.
Q: What happened in the bunk room?
A: Charlie said something about that we were going to go out again tonight and that last night was too messy, or something like that, and he was going to show us how to do it; and I remember I saw two long swords, that's all I remember.
Q: Everyone was in the bunk house at that time, or the bunk room?
A: Everyone?
Q: Well, the same group.
A: Leslie was there and Clem was there.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have her a photograph of a female Caucasian.
May it be marked People's 301 for identification?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you People's 301 for identification.
Do you know who is depicted in that photograph?
A: Yes, that's Leslie.
Q: Leslie Van Houten?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Tex say anything to Manson inside the bunk room?
A: Yeah, he said something about that weapons -- the weapons that we used the night before weren't any good and that we needed better weapons, or something like that.
Q: Did he say why they were no good?
A: Not that I can recall right now.
Q: You saw a few swords or several swords?
A: Two swords.
Q: Inside the bunk room?
A: Yes.
Q: Had you ever seen these swords before?
A: Yes.
Q: Where?
A: Well, they are always in the bunk room or they are at the waterfall; they are usually wherever we went; they went with us.
Q: Did Charlie have a dune buggie?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever see a sword on the side of the dune buggie?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here a photograph, your Honor, previously marked People's 48.
May it be remarked People's 48?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you People's 48 for identification.
Do you know what is shown in that photograph, Linda?
A: Yes, that's Charlie's dune buggie.
Q: To the left, right next to the driver's seat, there appears to be a sword; is that right?
A: Yes, it is the pirate's sword, as I see it.
Q: It looks like a pirate's sword?
A: Yes.
Q: Was that one of the swords that were in the dune buggie that night?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened -- you are in the bunk room now with the group; what's the next thing that happened?
A: I just remember starting to get into the car.
Q: The same car of the previous night?
A: Yeah.
Q: John Swartz' car?
A: Yeah, and Charlie handed me some leather thongs, strip of leather, which I put in my pocket.
Everybody got into the car; we started to drive away and about the same spot that Charlie stopped us the night before, he stopped the car again and got out and went looking for Bruce for some money; and a few minutes passed by and he came back.
Then we all left, started driving away.
Q: Were there any knives in the car?
A: Yeah, they wars under the seat of the driver's side.
Q: The knives?
A: Yeah.
Q: What about the swords, were they in the car?
A: Well, the two swords were under the seat.
Q: The two swords were under the seat?
A: Yeah.
Q: Was there a gun in the car?
A: I think so. I can't amount for it, though; I'm not sure.
Q: How many of you were in the car at this point?
A: Let's see, me, Charlie, Clem, Tex, Leslie, Katie and Sadie.
Q: Seven of you?
A: I guess.
THE COURT: What was that last name?
THE WITNESS: Sadie.
THE COURT: Sadie was the last name?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: So there were seven of you in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was driving the car?
A: Charlie.
Q: Where were you in the car?
A: In the middle, between the driver and the passenger.
Q: Did Charlie tell you why he was giving you the leather thongs?
A: No.
Q: Do you know what happened to those leather thongs?
A: No.
Q: Did Manson have any leather thongs on his person that you saw?
A: Yeah, he had it around his neck.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Now, I have here some leather thongs previously marked people's 241 for identification.
May they be remarked people's 241 for identification?
THE COURT: They may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you some leather thongs, Linda; do these thongs appear to be different or essentially the same as the leather thongs that Manson had around his neck that night?
A: The same.
Q: And essentially the same as the kind that be give to you?.
A: Yes.
Q: Where did Manson drive to?
A: To gas station, and he got some gas, and I believe he got out and bought some cigarettes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: I think he had me drive from that point. I can't remember at the moment.
Q: So you took over the driver's seat?
A: Yeah.
Q: Now, Linda, you indicated that the previous night when you left Spahn Ranch you didn't know what was going to happen, you thought you were going to go out and steal; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, this second night you did know what was going to happen?
A: Yes.
Q: You know that you were going to go out and kill?
A: Um-hmm.
Q: Did you want to go along?
A: Of course not.
Q: Why did you go along?
A: Because you just don't say no to Charlie; and I just felt I didn't have a choice.
Q: After you started driving the car did Manson direct you anywhere?
A: Yeah, I was driving on a freeway and towards Pasadena and he told me to get off at an exit, which was Fair Oaks exit. I had been there before; and I don't know from there -- we ended up in a residential area, and driving around the streets.
Q: Was Manson directing you where to go?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you stop anywhere?
A: Yes.
Q: Where?
A: In front of the house.
Q: What type of house was it?
A: Oh, a small house.
Q: One-story?
A: Yeah.
Q: Residential area?
A: Yeah.
Q: How long after you arrived in the Pasadena area did you stop in front of this house?
A: I don't know; not too long.
Q: What happened in front of this house?
A: Charlie got out and he told me to drive around the block and then to come back, which I did; and he got in the car and he said something.
Q: When you say he got in the car, now, you drove around the block --
A: Yes.
Q: -- when you came back was Manson there waiting?
A: Yeah, he was waiting.
Q: And then he got into the car?
A: Right.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: I don't know in the sequence, but he said something about that he saw pictures through the window of the house and he decided not to do it in that house.
Q: Did he say what type of pictures they were?
A: Children's pictures on the wall; and he said something about not to let children stop us for the sakes of children of the future, or something to that effect; and we sat there for a minute because there was a man and a woman further down, a few houses down, that were getting out of their car and we just watched them for a minute and then Charlie just said the man was too big or something and we drove off.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: We drove and drove and he took over driving for a while. I think he drove from that point, I'm not positive now.
Then I just remember driving up a hill and it was pretty high because I could see a lot of city lights, and we stopped in front of another house which was a big house, more expensive looking house; and we looked at the house and then he said something about the houses were too close together.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph previously marked people's 49 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 49?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Linda, I show you people's 49 for identification.
Do you know what is shown in that photograph?
A: Yeah, it looks like the second house.
Q: Okay. There appear to be two homes here, a home on the left is a two-story house, the home on the right is a one-story house?
A: Yes.
Q: The home on the left, the two-story house, do you recognize that home?
A: Yes. That looks like the second house that we stopped at.
Q: Do you remember, Linda, that you and I and several members of the police department drove throughout Pasadena several days looking for these homes?
A: Yes.
MR. BUBRICK: Object to that as being immaterial, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, it is done, but let's not do it again.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Let's not do what again, your Honor?
THE COURT: Make a reference to what you did.
MR. BUGLIOSI: She was with me. I am drawing her attention to what she did.
THE COURT: Ask her if she pointed out this house.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Now, in driving around Pasadena, were you looking for the home that you stopped in front of?
A: Yes.
Q: And did you point this home out to us?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: What is the next thing that happened, Linda?
A: We drove to a church.
Q: Was this church also in Pasadena?
A: Yeah.
Q: How far was the church from the second house?
A: Oh, not too far.
Q: Did you stop at the church?
A: Yes, into a parking lot.
Q: Was Charlie driving at that time?
A: I am not sure. I can't quite recall if I was or he was.
Q: What happened at the church?
A: He got out and said something about that he was going to find a priest or a minister.
THE COURT: A priest or what?
THE WITNESS: A minister -- and he got out and came back in a few seconds. Apparently the door was locked or something like that. Nobody was there. He drove off.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Was the car parked in the parking lot of the church?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember pointing this church out to myself and several members of the police department?
A: Yes.
MR. BUBRICK: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: It is leading but she has answered it. Go ahead.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here another photograph previously marked People's 57 for identification. May it be remarked as People's 57?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Directing your attention to People's 57, do you know what is shown in that photograph?
A: Yes, it looks like the church we stopped at.
Q: Now, on this photograph, Linda, there is an X, there is an arrow and it says, "Where Manson parked the car."
Are these markings correct on this photograph?
A: Yes.
Q: After you drove off from the church, what is the next thing that happened?
A: Got back on the freeway, drove for a long time and Charlie drove. Then I remember near the end of Sunset Boulevard, he had me take over driving.
Q: Sunset Boulevard where? In the downtown area or in the Beverly Hills area?
A: It wasn't downtown. There were houses.
Q: Are you familiar with the Sunset Strip?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did Charlie -- was Charlie driving somewhere in the vicinity of the Sunset Strip?
A: There weren't lights like the Sunset Strip, no.
Q: Was it near the Sunset Strip?
A: I think it was past it.
Q: Past it, toward the ocean?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Let's see, I was driving and he told me to take a right, onto this dirt road, which I did, went up the dirt road.
It was real dark. I couldn't see too much and I turned around and came back.
We stopped in front of a house. I remember there was a barn or some kind of a building like that to my right. To my left there was a house but I couldn't really see anything It was dark.
And then we drove on and got, back onto that main road.
Q: Sunset Boulevard?
A: Yeah. Then I took another right and there was expensive type homes and he had me take rights and lefts and rights and lefts and then we got to a point and he told me to turn around and go back the way I came, which I wasn't able to do.
Anyway, we got back onto the main road and I remember driving up a really big hill, a hilly, winding hill and on the top there was a gate that was locked and I turned around and drove back down. I turned around and came back the way we were going, went back the way we were going.
Driving for quite a while and got into intersection lights. There was a white sports car driving down the road and Charles told me to follow it.
Q: Was this on Sunset Boulevard?
A: Yes.
Q: What direction were you going at this time?
A: Back toward the city, away.
Q: You were going away from the ocean?
A: Yes.
Q: Going east?
A: Yes. And he told me to follow the white sports car, and at the next red light to stop and he was going to get out and kill the man and I got to a red stop and stopped and the car was right there beside me and Charlie started to get out, but then the light turned green and the car took off.
Charlie got back in and then I kept driving and he started giving me more directions and finally we ended up in front of a house where I had been a year or so earlier.
Q: What house was this?
A: Harold True.
Q: You say a year earlier you had been to Harold True's place?
A: Yes.
Q: With whom?
A: With my husband and Charlie Melton and a few other friends.
Q: You were not there with any member of the family?
A: No.
Q: This would be then the previous summer, the summer of 1968?
A: Right.
Q: And you parked in front of the house?
A: Yeah.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph of a male Caucasian previously marked People's 61 for identification.
May it be remarked People's 61?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you People's 61, Linda. Do you know who is shown in that photograph?
A: Yes. It is Harold True.
THE COURT: Would you spell the last name?
THE WITNESS: T-r-u-e, I think.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: You were driving at this time?
A: Yes.
Q: Manson told you to stop the car in front of this home?
A: Yes.
Q: And you recognized it as being the former residence, or the residence of Harold True?
A: Right.
Q: What happened after you stopped in front of this house?
A: I was really surprised that we stopped there and I said something about, "You are not going to that house, are you?"
And Charlie said, "No, I am going to go next door." And he got out of the car and I saw him walk up the driveway that looked like to Harold's house. Then he disappeared. It was dark and bushes.
Q: Was he to your front or left rear or what?
A: Yes, to my left rear.
Q: So you were behind the driver's seat?
A: Yes.
Q: And he walked up Harold True's driveway?
A: Yes.
Q: And the driveway was to your left rear?
A: Yes.
Q: And it was dark?
A: Yes.
Q: He walked out of your sight?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here another photograph previously marked People's 62 for identification.
May it be remarked People's 62?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Linda, showing you People's 62 for identification. Do you know what is shown in that photograph?
A: Yes. It looks like the driveway.
Q: Now, in the upper right-hand corner of this photograph there appears to be a home.
Is that Harold True's home?
A: I can't really say. It looks like it but I'm not sure.
Q: Are there some markings on this photograph from the previous trial? In the bottom right-hand corner there is an X which says, "Where Manson parked car."
Are those markings correct?
A: Yes.
Q: And then there is an arrow leading up the driveway and it says, "Path Manson walked."
Are those markings correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Manson was the only one that got out of the car?
A: Yes.
Q: And you and Tex, Sadie, Katie, Leslie and Clem stayed in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Well, we smoked cigarettes and that is how I more or less determined how long he was gone.
Q: How much of a cigarette did you smoke?
A: A Pall Mall cigarette, a whole -- not the whole thing but three-quarters of it, where a normal filter would be. That is I smoked down to that point.
Q: Then Charles came back to the car?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened after he got back to the car?
A: He called Leslie and Katie and Tex out of the car and they were standing sort of to the side, to the back of the car on the passenger side, and I heard him say something about there was two people in the house and that he had tied them up.
I think he said a man and a woman, but I am not sure, and he told them not to be afraid, that he wasn't going to hurt them and he told them not to create fear and panic in them like the night before and not to let them know that they were going to kill them.
And then I don't know if it was right after or something more was said but I heard him tell them to hitch-hike home and for Katie to go to the waterfall, for Katie to go to the waterfall.
Q: Where was the waterfall in relation to the ranch?
A: Oh, it was across Santa Susana Pass.
Q: You think you heard Manson then tell Tex, Leslie and Katie not to cause fear and panic in the people the way they had done the night before?
MR. BUBRICK: I object to the question. It is again recapping her testimony rather than asking her questions about what happened or what was said.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: You heard Manson tell Tex, Katie and Leslie not to cause fear and panic in these people the way they had done the previous night?
A: Yes.
Q: And you say Manson told Tex, Katie and Sadie he had told the people inside not to be afraid, that he wasn't going to hurt them?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Tex, Leslie, and Katie then walk away?
A: Yes.
Q: Leaving you, Charlie, Sadie and Clem in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was driving at that point?
A: Charlie took over the driving.
Q: Did Charlie drive away?
A: Yes.
Q: As you were driving away from the residence, did Charlie give you anything?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: What did he give you?
A: A wallet.
Q: Did he say where he had gotten this wallet?
A: Not that I recall.
Q: Had you seen that wallet earlier in the evening?
A: No.
Q: But once Charlie got back into the car, he had the wallet?
A: Yes.
Q: Did he have anything else that you hadn't seen earlier in the evening?
A: No, I don't think so.
Q: Just the wallet?
A: Yes.
Q: Did he tell you to do anything with the wallet?
A: Yes. He told me to take the money out of it and to wipe off the fingerprints, which I did, my prints and his prints, whoever's prints were on it.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a wallet previously marked people's 65 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 65?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: I show you now people's 65 for identification, Linda.
Have you ever seen that wallet before?
A: It looks -- I don't know.
Q: Well, the wallet that Charlie gave you, did it resemble this wallet or did it look completely different?
A: I thought it was a bright red, but I don't know.
Q: Okay; apart from the color, what about the shape?
A: Yeah, it was the size,
Q: The wallet that Charlie gave you was essentially the same shape as this wallet?
A: Yes.
Q: But you recall that the wallet he gave you seemed to be a bright red?
A: Seemed it was.
Q: Was it dark inside the car?
A: Yeah.
Q: Any lighting on inside the car, the dome light or anything?
A: No.
Q: Did you open up the inside of the wallet?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: What did you find inside the wallet?
A: Some change and credit cards.
I saw a driver's license.
Q: Did you see many credit cards?
A: Quite a few, yeah.
Q: You say you saw a driver's license?
A: Yeah.
Q: Was there a picture on the driver's license?
A: Yes, there was.
Q: Do you recall whom the picture was of?
A: A woman with an upraised hairdo, black hair.
Q: Did you look at the name on the driver's license?
A: Yeah, it was a name that I couldn't really pronounce; I don't know, Mexican or Italian or something.
Q: I am removing a driver's license from the wallet, Linda.
Do you recall seeing that driver's license that night?
A: The name is the same, but --
Q: Rosemary La Bianca?
A: Yes.
Q: Does that name ring a bell?
A: Yes.
Q: That is the Italian or Mexican name that you referred to?
A: Yeah.
Q: Does the picture of the woman appear to be the same picture that you saw that night?
A: It doesn't look the same, but I'm not positive.
Q: You say doesn't look the same?
A: She looks different. I thought she was more -- I don't know, fancy looking or something.
Q: All right.
What did you do with the money that you took out of the wallet?
A: I think I put it in the glove box.
THE COURT: It was just change you found in the wallet?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Charlie told me to wipe off the fingerprints, which I did; and we were driving in a residential area right near the house and he told me that when we pulled up to the curb to throw it out onto the sidewalk, which he pulled up to the curb but then he said, "No, don't"; so I didn't.
Q: Did he tell you why he wanted you to throw the wallet out of the car?
A: Yeah, because he wanted black people to get it so that the police and the authorities would think that it was like an organized black group that did these killings; and I didn't throw it out and then he got on the freeway.
Q: How far was the freeway from the residence in front of which you stopped?
A: Not very far.
Q: Okay, you got on the freeway, Manson was still driving the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Were you in the front seat?
A: Yes.
Q: Clem and Sadie in the back seat?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: We drove for quite a while, I guess, I'm not really sure how long.
Q: Did Manson say anything while he was driving the car?
A: He did a lot of talking, but a lot of it I didn't hear; a lot of it I just didn't listen to.
Q: Did he say anything about black people?
A: Yeah, he said something about that he wanted to show blackie how to do it, and a lot of mumbo-jumbo that I don't recall hearing, any more; and we pulled into a gas station.
Q: Where was the gas station in relation to the freeway?
A: Right off the freeway.
Q: Could you see the gas station from the freeway?
A: Yeah, I think so.
Q: What happened after he pulled into the gas station?
A: Well, he told me to take the wallet and go into the ladies' room and hide it where somebody would find it, but not right away, which I did.
Q: Did he say who he wanted to find the wallet?
A: Black people.
Q: Did he say why?
A: I'm not sure at this point, which I got out of the car and I went to the ladies' room and I hid it.
Q: Where did you hide the wallet?
A: Well, I lifted up the top of the tank and I placed it on the ball so when you flush it the bulb goes down and comes back up.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor,I have here a photograph previously marked people's 70 for identification.
May it be remarked people's 70?
THE COURT: So marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Showing you people's 70 for identification, Linda, this is the -- I'm sure you don't recognize this particular rest room, but this appears to be --
MR. BUBRICK: Object, your Honor; it appears to be whatever it is, your Honor. The picture is the best evidence of whatever it appears to be.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I can mark it for identification, Mr. Bubrick.
THE COURT: It is already marked for identification, 70.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: It appears, Linda, to be a tank behind the toilet bowl and the lid is off, and there is a bulb here on the left.
Where did you put the wallet?
A: Right there where it is marked.
Q: On top of the bulb, here?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, there is a marking on this photograph, "Where Linda testified she placed wallet."
Is this marking correct?
A: Yes, it is.
Q: The marking was done in the previous trial.
A: Yes.
Q: Then you left the woman's rest room and got back into the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Manson have anything for you at that point?
A: Yeah, he got out and bought some milkshakes, which were already there when I got back.
Q: How many milkshakes?
A: Four; one for each of us.
Q: Was there a restaurant near the gasoline station?
A: Yes.
Q: Was there anything distinguishing about this restaurant?
A: I just remember that is had a bright orange roof, something like that.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here another photograph, your Honor, previously marked People's 67 for identification.
May it be remarked People's 67?
THE COURT: It will be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Showing you People's 67 for identification, Linda, do you recognise what is shown in that photograph?
A: Yeah, it looks like the gas station and the restaurant.
Q: The restaurant is to the right of the gas station; it says "Denny's," appears to be an orange sign?
A: Yeah.
Q: Do you recall, this looks like the restaurant and the gasoline station?
A: Yes.
Q: What's the next thing that happened?
A: I drove from this point and --
Q: Did you get back on the freeway?
A: Yes.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: I don't know; to an area where I had never been before, I was on a beach.
Q: Near what particular city?
A: I don't know. I had never been there before; I didn't know the name of it.
Q: Had you ever been to Venice, California before?
A: Sure, yeah.
Q: Where was it in relation to Venice, if you recall?
A: At the time, I don't think I can recall now.
Q: Was it in Venice where you stopped?
A: No.
Q: Was it towards Malibu or South of Venice, towards, let's say, Newport Beach or Manhattan Beach?
A: Yeah, I think it was down in that direction.
Q: South of Venice?
A: Yeah.
Q: Where did you stop?
A: On a hill leading to the beach, on a street.
Q: What's the next thing that happened?
A: We all got out and walked down to the beach and we sort of broke off into groups, me and Charlie and Sadie and Clem; and they were walking behind us and we walked down the beach and Charlie was holding my hand.
I guess we talked. I can't remember what we talked about.
Q: Where was Clem and Sadie at that time?
A: I think they was behind us, walking behind us.
Q: Okay.
What's the next thing that happened?
A: We started walking back towards the car and I remember a police cruiser pulled up and stopped us, asked us what we were doing or something like that, and Charlie --
Q: One or two officers?
A: Two.
Q: And they asked you and Charlie --
A: Yeah.
Q: Where were Clem and Sadie at that point?
A: I don't know, maybe back at the beach or maybe at the car, I'm not sure.
Q: So the police asked you where you were going?
A: Yeah; Charlie just said, "We are out walking," or something like that, and Charlie --
Q: Go ahead.
A: Charlie said something about, I don't know, just like sort of jiving with the cops -- the police -- "Don't you remember me?" Or something like that; or, "Don't you remember me, don't you remember my name?"
I'm not sure what the words were, but as if the cops were supposed to know who he was, but they didn't; and it was just sort of a friendly conversation and then we left and went back to the car.
Q: How long did the police talk to you and Charlie?
A: Just a few minutes.
Q: Did they take down any type of a report?
A: No, not that I heard.
Q: Did you see them writing anything?
A: No.
Q: Did they ask you your name?
A: No.
Q: Did they ask Charlie his name?
A: No.
Q: And the police drove away?
A: Um-hum.
Q: What's the next thing that happened?
A: We went back to the car. I think Clem and Sadie were already in the car; and Charlie drove from this point and we just started driving.
And then he asked us if we knew any people at the beach and everybody said no; and then he asked me something about, "What about that guy that you and Sadie saw the other day? Isn't he a piggy?" And I said, "Yes, he's an actor or something like that" and he told me that he wanted me to show him how to get there and that he wanted me to kill him.
And I just said, "Charlie, I'm not you, I can't kill"; and I was really scared.
And he said, "Well, I want you to kill him," and he showed me this little pocketknife and he told me that he wanted me to slit the man's throat, and I said, "With this?" And he said, "Yeah," and he showed me how to do it with his finger.
So, I directed him to Venice Beach to the apartment where this man lived, and him and I got out of the car and we went into the building.
Q: Charlie and you got out of the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Clem and Sadie stayed back in the car?
A: Yes.
Q: This was in Venice?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened next?
A: And we walked up the stairs and I was pretty sure that the man lived on the top floor. I think I took Charlie to the fourth floor, if there was five floors, and pointed out the door and said that is where he lived and then we walked down.
Q: You pointed out the wrong door to Charlie?
A: Yes.
Q: You came back to the car?
A: Yes. And then he asked me at one point if this man would let my friends in and I said, "Yeah, probably."
So he told me to knock on the door and as soon as I got into the house, to slit the man's throat and for Clem to shoot the man. He gave Clem a gun and then he just took off.
Q: Charlie took off?
A: Yes.
Q: Did he tell you how to get back to the ranch?
A: I don't know if he told us.
Q: So then you, Sadie, and Clem did what?
A: We went into the building, walked up the stairs and they hid around the corner and I --
Q: Who did?
A: Clem and Sadie.
Q: What did you do?
A: I knocked on the door.
Q: What door did you knock on?
A: A door. I don't know whose door it was.
Q: Was it the actor's door?
A: No.
Q: Were you on the fifth floor?
A: I don't think so. I don't know.
Q: What floor were you on?
A: I think the floor below it.
Q: The fourth floor again?
A: Yes.
Q: You knocked on the wrong door?
A: Right.
Q: Did you know you were knocking on the wrong door?
A: Yes.
Q: Why did you knock on the wrong door?
A: Because I didn't want to kill.
Q: What was the next thing that happened?
A: I knocked on the door and a man answered and he just peeked through the door and I just said, "Oh, I am sorry. I have the wrong apartment," or something like that, and we left.
Q: Who was this actor to whom you were referring?
A: Well, Sandy and I had met him one day on the beach.
Q: How long before the incident?
A: About a week, maybe. I am not really sure of the time.
Q: Did he tell you who he was?
A: Yes. I don't remember his name.
Q: What did he say?
A: He was an Arab or Israeli. He was an actor. He portrayed Kahill Gibrahn in some movie.
Q: This Sandy, to whom you have been referring, is she a member of the family?
A: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here a photograph, your Honor, of three female Caucasians and three male Caucasians previously marked People's 76.
May it be remarked as People's 76?
THE COURT: So marked.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here a photograph of a male Caucasian previously marked People's 77.
May it be remarked People's 77?
THE COURT: So marked.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I have here a photograph apparently, appears to be of an apartment house, previously marked People's 78.
May it be remarked People's 78?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Directing your attention to People's 76 for identification.
There are three girls in this photograph. There is some writing on one of them. It says "Sandy." Is that the girl you have been referring to?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know her as Sandy Good?
A: I don't think I know her last name.
Q: That is Sandy?
A: Yes.
Q: The girl in the middle is Gypsy?
A: Yes.
Q: And the girl on the right is Squeaky?
A: Right.
Q: Directing your attention to People's 77 for identification, do you know who is shown in that photograph?
A: Yes. That is the Israeli actor.
Q: The Israeli actor you have been referring to?
A: Yes.
Q: Showing you People's 78 for identification, do you know what is shown in that photograph?
A: Yes. That is the apartment house.
Q: This in the apartment house where the Israeli actor lived?
A: Yes.
Q: On the top floor?
A: Yes.
Q: After you, Sadie, and Clem left the apartment house, what is the next thing that happened?
A: We started walking down the beach, the boardwalk or speedway, whatever it is called, and it was morning and there were a few people walking around.
Clem said that he wanted to hide the gun. So he walked down to the pier and I think Sadie and I went into the ladies room or something, I am not sure, and he came back in a few minutes and said that there was people at the pier so he didn't hide the gun.
We kept walking and just before the freeway we came to a sandpile of some kind right beside a house and Clem walked up there and I don't know what he did with the gun but I guess he threw it away or buried it or something. I am not sure.
And we started hitchhiking on the freeway, the Coast Highway.
Q: What were Sadie and Clem doing at that time? Were they talking, singing or --
A: Yes, they were singing.
Q: What were they singing?
A: Just song that they always sang.
Q: They seemed to be happy?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: We got picked up by somebody, I'm not really sure who, and we went to the entrance to Topanga Canyon, to a house by the Malibu Feed Bin, where Sadie and I had been there once before. She knew the girl.
We went in and sat down and smoked some grass.
Q: Was this on Pacific Coast Highway?
A: Well, it is right off -- yes, it is at the entrance to Topanga Canyon.
Q: Who was inside the house? The girl?
A: The girl and some old man. I don't know who he was.
Q: You and Clem and Sadie?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do inside the house?
A: We smoked some grass.
Q: You mean marijuana?
A: Yes. And they talked, I don't really know about what. Then we left.
Q: How long did you stay there?
A: I don't know, an hour or so, I guess.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph previously marked People's 81.
May it be remarked 81?
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Showing you People's 81, do you know what is shown in that photograph, Linda?
A: Yes, the Malibu Feed Bin.
Q: And the house next door?
A: Yes. It is hard to see the house but the house was right beside there.
Q: What is the next thing that happened, Linda?
A: We left and walked across the street and started hitchhiking back to the ranch and I remember a young guy picked us up, short hair, glasses, a new car, sort of a hot rod type car.
I remember him saying to me something about he was a journalist or a newspaper guy or something like that. I don't remember.
We talked but I can't remember about what and I am not sure if he took -- no, he dropped us off on Topanga Boulevard in the Valley, I guess it is.
Somebody else picked us up and then this person let Clem and I off at the entrance to Santa Susana and Sadie went on toward the waterfall, the back entrance.
Q: You and Clem walked to the ranch?
A: Yes.
THE COURT: Would this be a good time for a recess?
MR. BUGLIOSI: Yes.
THE COURT: We will have our morning recess at this time.
Once more, do not form or express any opinion in this case. Do not discuss it among yourselves or with anybody else. Please keep an open mind.
(Recess)THE COURT: People against Watson.
Let the record show all jurors are present; defendant and all counsel are present.
Mrs. Kasabian, you are still under oath.
Just state your name for the record, please.
THE WITNESS: Linda Kasabian.
THE COURT: Mr. Bugliosi, you may proceed.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: So, Linda, you and Clem walked back to the ranch?
THE COURT: Just a moment.
Are you comfortable now? Get comfortable.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: You and Clem walked back to the ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: Was it daylight by now?
A: Yes, it was.
Q: Early morning, about 5:00 o'clock?
A: It was later than that.
Q: 6:00 or 7:00?
A: Probably around 9:00; 8:00 or 9:00; something like that.
Q: So you had been out the entire evening --
A: Yeah.
Q: -- or entire night?
A: Yes.
Q: Going back just a little bit, when all seven of you were leaving Spahn Ranch on this second night, did Manson say anything to you in the car about two groups?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: What did he say?
A: He said something about that -- well, before that, in the bunk house I think he said that the night before had been too messy and he was going to show us how to do it; and then later in the car he said something about that we were going to break up into two groups and that he was going to go with one group, and then the other group would go to another house, two separate houses in two groups. I don't know his exact words.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, I have here a photograph of Tex Watson previously marked people's 36.
May it be remarked people's 36.
THE COURT: It may be so marked.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Do you recognize this as a photograph of Charles Tex Watson?
A: Yes.
Q: On these two nights, the nights of the Tate and LaBianca murders, did Mr. Watson look essentially the way he looks in this photograph or the way he looks now at the counsel table?
A: He looks more like the photograph.
Q: People's 36?
A: Yes.
Q: He had long hair like this?
A: Yes, he did.
THE COURT: I recall yesterday you told us you couldn't see his eyes because his hair was so long.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: The bangs, I guess you call it that, on the front, were they longer than they are on that photograph or about the same? I guess you call them bangs, don't you?
THE WITNESS: Yes. It seems to me most of the time I could never see his eyes unless he moved it or something.
THE COURT: But this is a true photo of Tex Watson as he appeared on the nights of August 8th and August 9th, 1969; is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I think his hair is pretty close to his eyes in this photograph, your Honor, but I agree it doesn't cover his eyes. It is approaching it.
Q: Linda, do you know what LSD is?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: Have you ever taken LSD?
A: Yes.
Q: About how many times?
A: Well, just LSD itself or all psychedelic trips together?
Q: LSD.
A: I don't know. All trips together around 50.
Q: That is including LSD and any other hallucinogenic drugs?
A: Yes.
Q: Over what period of time?
A: About five years.
Q: So you started taking hallucinogenic drugs, LSD, at about the age of 16?
A: Yeah.
Q: And have you seen other people take LSD?
A: Sure, yes.
Q: And other hallucinogenic drugs?
A: Yes.
Q: Many times?
A: Yeah.
Q: And you saw the way they act when they were under the influence of LSD?
A: Yeah.
Q: Or these other drugs?
A: Sure.
Q: Did you ever take LSD at the Spahn Ranch?
A: I don't think I was on LSD.
Q: What did you take?
A: It was a week drug, possibly psylicotian or mescaline.
THE COURT: Would you spell that first one.
MR. BUGLIOSI: It starts with a p-s-y-l --
MR. KEITH: P-s-y-l-i-c-o-t-i-a-n.
THE COURT: And Mescaline?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q: When did you take this psylicotian or mescaline at Spahn Ranch?
A: I don't know the date; it was around the end of July.
Q: About the end of July?
A: Yes.
Q: And with whom did you take it?
A: With Sadie and another girl took it, Barbara.
Q: Did you ever see Manson or Katie or Leslie take LSD?
A: I saw Charlie take it once, yeah.
Q: Did you ever see Tex take LSD?
A: No.
Q: Did you ever see him use any kind of drugs?
A: Yeah.
Q: What?
A: I seen him smoke grass, and the second night I saw him take a white capsule, what I thought was speed.
Q: Before we get into the second night, before these two nights, the nights of the Tate-LaBianca murders, you saw Tex Watson smoke marijuana?
A: Sure, yeah.
Q: But not take LSD?
A: No.
Q: In addition to LSD and other hallucinogenic drugs, what other drugs have you taken?
A: Mescaline, psylicotian, peyote cactus, morning glory seeds, speed -- methedrine.
Q: When you say "speed," you are referring to methedrine?
A: Yes; THC.
Q: THC?
A: Yeah; I think that just about covers it.
Q: Pardon?
A: I think that just about covers it. I can't think of anything else.
Q: You have taken a vast array of drugs; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Of course, you smoked marijuana?
A: Sure, yeah.
Q: And you have seen other people under the influence of these drugs?
I'm not referring to LSD now; I am referring to the other drugs that you have mentioned.
A: Yeah, yeah.
Q: And you saw the way they acted when they were under the influence --
A: Yes.
Q: On the night of the Tate murders did you take any LSD or any other drugs?
A: No.
Q: What about that afternoon?
A: No.
Q: Or morning?
A: No.
Q: Or several days earlier?
A: Well, just that one time that I thought was mescaline, which may was a week before the murders, I'm not sure.
Q: To your knowledge as to your knowledge, did Tex, Sadie or Katie take LSD or any other drug on the night of the murder?
MR. KEITH: Object to the question as calling for a conclusion.
MR. BUBRICK: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: If she knows.
MR. BUGLIOSI: I said, to her knowledge.
THE WITNESS: No; I don't know if they did or not.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: So you have no knowledge that they did?
A: No.
Q: Did either Tex, Sadie or Katie tell you that they had taken LSD or any other drug on the night of the Tate murders?
A: No.
Q: Did they act like they were under the influence of any drug?
MR. BUBRICK: Calls for a conclusion.
MR. KEITH: Object to that --
MR. BUGLIOSI: May we approach the bench?
THE COURT: She can describe their actions.
MR. BUGLIOSI: May we approach the bench?
THE COURT: You may approach the bench.
(The following proceedings were had at the bench.)
MR. BUGLIOSI: If a medical doctor, a psychiatrist, who has never taken LSD in his life can testify, as they are going to in this case, that on the nights of these murders, in their opinion, Tex had taken LSD two years earlier; surely -- surely, a person who has taken LSD a great number of times, has seen people under the influence and who was there with them that night, can give that opinion.
Now, the court, of course, is aware -- the court is aware that --
THE COURT: I have had cases --
MR. BUGLIOSI: -- that a witness can testify to intoxication --
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. BUGLIOSI: -- under People vs. Baker, I think it is 42 Cal. 2d, intoxication includes drugs -- intoxication includes drugs.
Now, I am looking -- the opinion of a lay witness, a lay witness can give an opinion as to whether a person was intoxicated, People vs. Sehorn.
THE COURT: That is old law.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Right; right. Drugs are intoxication; this girl has a vast amount of experience. I think she can give an opinion whether they were under the influence of any drugs.
THE COURT: Well, I have had these cases before and I permitted a lay witness to testify they took what they thought was something. I permitted the witness to describe the reactions, describe his conduct, describe the physical effects.
Then an expert would testify that based upon those faces it is his opinion that the witness had taken so and so.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Your Honor, she is an expert in drugs; she has taken it, herself. She knows; she knows what the effect is; she has taken it over 50 times. She has gone on trips with other people. She knows the way people act.
It might be very difficult for her to articulate all the nuances, but it is the impression she had.
Now, they can attack her on cross-examination --
THE COURT: No, I don't think you can establish her as an expert on that.
MR. BUGLIOSI: But, actually, you don't have to be an expert to give an opinion on intoxication.
THE COURT: Forget intoxication. I know that; there is no question about that at all. Intoxication is such a common thing that any person can testify to intoxication.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Right; People vs. Baker, 42 Cal. 2d, says intoxication includes drugs. When they talk about intoxication, drugs is included.
THE COURT: Mr. Bugliosi, I will sustain the objection.
I will permit her to testify to their conduct, their reaction, their feelings, what they experienced; but I cannot permit her to testify that in her opinion that one had taken or had not taken -- she can testify of their conduct, that's as far as I will let her go.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Very well; but I say, I don't see how a psychiatrist who has never taken drugs, two years later can give an opinion -- here's a girl who lived in this world, the world of drugs.
THE COURT: I appreciate it, Mr. Bugliosi, but I doubt whether she is that expert that she knows from the reaction of certain people they took a certain drug.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Okay; any drug, did they appear to be under the influence of any drug?
THE COURT: No, she can tell their reactions or actions or conduct.
(The following proceedings were had in open court, in the presence of the jury.)
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: So to your knowledge, Tex, Sadie and Katie did not take any drugs on the night of the Tate murders; is that correct?
MR. BUBRICK: That is not what she said.
THE COURT: Objection sustained. She testified she did not know whether they did or not.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: To your knowledge, you do not know?
A: I don't know.
Q: Now, on the night of the LaBianca murders, to your knowledge, did either Tex, Sadie, Katie, Leslie, Clem, or Manson take any drugs?
A: Yes. I saw Tex take a white capsule.
Q: Do you know what this white capsule was?
A: There were words spoken but I don't know who said it and what was said, but I was under the impression that it was speed, something to keep him awake because he was tired.
Q: This is methedrine?
A: Yes.
Q: You saw the white capsule?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: In Tex Watson's hand?
A: Yes.
Q: Where was this? Inside the car?
A: I think so, yes.
Q: Before you left Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: And you have taken speed?
A: Sure.
THE COURT: Does speed come in different forms, or just one form?
THE WITNESS: It comes in different forms.
THE COURT: Different forms. It come in capsule form?
THE WITNESS: Well, it is powder form. Then it can be put into capsules or tablets. It comes in liquid form, too.
THE COURT: You saw him take a white capsule?
THE WITNESS: Right.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: What effect does speed normally have on a person?
A: Well, it speeds up the nervous system.
Q: Tends to keep you awake?
A: Yes.
Q: On either night, either the night of the Tate murders or the LaBianca murders, did Tex seem dazed at all?
A: I don't understand.
Q: Did he seem dazed at all? Did he seem dizzy?
A: Dizzy? No, I don't think so.
Q: Did he stagger when he walked?
A: No.
Q: And he spoke to you, of course; right?
A: Yes.
Q: Was his speech slurred in any fashion?
A: No.
Q: Did he speak coherently to you?
A: Yes.
Q: Did he seem to make sense when he talked to you?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did he act crazy?
A: Just when I saw him stabbing. That was pretty crazy.
Q: Did he seem to be acting the same as he always had been at the Spahn Ranch?
MR. BUBRICK: I object. It is a little ambiguous.
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Always during the month that you knew him prior to these murders.
THE COURT: The last question was his conduct while stabbing. Now, you are asking if he always acted like that when he was stabbing at the Spahn Ranch?
MR. BUGLIOSI: No. I will retract that.
Q: Other than when he was stabbing, did he act any differently on the nights of the Tate-LaBianca murders than he had acted previously the month that you knew him?
A: No.
Q: Did he appear to be in control of himself on both nights?
A: Very much so, very much so, yes.
Q: Why do you say very much so?
A: Well, especially at the water hose, just after all that had happened and, I don't know, he just so calmly said, well, he was getting a drink of water and just seemed very quiet and, I don't know, very much under control.
Q: What was your state of mind after these two nights of murder, Linda?
A: I don't know -- confusion, shock, scared. I don't know. It was like everything was just unbelievable, like a nightmare.
Q: Did you want to leave the family at Spahn Ranch?
A: Yeah.
Q: What took place in the days that followed these two nights?
A: Let me see. That day I slept and that night I think I took care of Tanya. I am not quite sure.
The next morning Charlie asked me to go to see Mary Brunner and Bobby Beausoleil and Sandy. They were all in jail.
Q: These were three members of the family?
THE COURT: Could you read that back to me, please?
(Record read by the reporter.)
Q BY MR. BUGLIOSI: Bobby Beausoleil and Mary Brunner and Sandra Good, these were members of the family?
A: Yes.
Q: And he told you to go in and visit them in town?
A: Yes.
Q: This was the second morning after the LaBianca murders?
A: Yes, the second morning.
Q: Did you, in fact, go into town?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did you visit Mary Brunner?
A: Well, I went to the jail but I never saw her.
Q: You never saw her or Sandra?
A: No.
Q: What about Bobby Beausoleil?
A: No. I didn't get to see him either.
Q: Were you planning to leave that day, leave Spahn Ranch?
A: Yes.
Q: Why didn't you leave?
A: Let me think. I remember I taken my sleeping bag. I crawled around the ranch and hid it. I am not sure of the sequence. I just remember there was always people walking around. There was people walking around with guns, the guards.
Q: What were they guarding?
A: Against Black Panthers.
Q: You may continue.
A: And I came back from town, from the jail, so I said I didn't get to see anybody. I told Charlie.
He told me to go again the next morning. And myself and another girl went on a garbage run.
Let's see. I went to the waterfall that night, stayed overnight.
The next morning, went back to the ranch. I got dressed.I went through the whole thing again, putting on straight clothes.
Q: Was it your intent at that time to leave, though?
A: Yes.
Q: But you didn't tell anybody?
A: No. I went into the parachute room because I had a shoulder bag that I put in there, hid with some diapers and some canned things. Charlie was there, so I couldn't get it. So I just said goodbye and walked out.
Q: You said goodbye to Charlie?
A: Yes.
Q: You didn't tell him you were leaving Los Angeles?
A: No.
Q: Or the family at the ranch?
A: No. I just said goodbye and I remember standing down by the corral and Bruce Davis was there and Dave Hannum and Bruce gave me some money. I think he gave me $2 and he gave me a credit card and I got in the car and drove away.
Q: You got in whose car?
A: Dave Hannum's car.
Q: What kind of a car did he have?
A: A white station wagon, a small car, Volvo, something like that.
Q: Did you ask Hannum if you could use his Volvo?
A: Well, I had asked him the day before and I don't know if I asked him the second day or not. Maybe it was just understood or maybe I did. I am not sure.
Q: The day before you used his car to go into town to visit?
A: Yes.
Q: And the second day you also got into his car?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you tell Hannum or Bruce or anyone that you intended to leave the family?
A: No.
Q: So you got into the car and you drove away?
A: Yes.
Q: You drove away from Los Angeles?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you pick up two hitchhikers en route?
A: First I picked up my sleeping bag with my clothes and some clothes for Tanya, but I didn't have Tanya.
Yes, I did, I picked up -- they weren't hitchhikers. I picked them up the day before on the way back to the ranch and I picked them up at the house that they were staying at.
Q: You had made arrangements with them the day before that you would pick them up the following day?
A: Yes.
Q: And take them where?
A: To New Mexico.
Q: Which is where you were going?
A: Right.
Q: Was your husband there at the time?
A: At the time of what?
Q: At the time that you left Spahn Ranch a couple of days after the murders, was your husband in New Mexico?
A: I am not positive but I think I assumed that he was.
Q: In Taos?
A: Yes.
Q: You didn't take Tanya with you?
A: No.
Q: Why is that?
A: Well, she was at the waterfall and, I don't know, I just felt that she was going to be okay, that nothing was going to happen to her, that I had to go.
Q: Did you want to take Tanya with you?
A: Yeah.
Q: You say she was at the waterfall. Why didn't you go and get her?
A: Well, because all the family was down there and I knew that I just wasn't supposed to go down there, that it probably wouldn't work out if I did.
I don't know. It was like something within myself just told me that it was going to be okay and that nothing would come, you know, to harm Tanya. So I just felt confident in leaving.
Q: Did you intend to come back and pick up Tanya?
A: Sure, yes.
Q: When?
A: I don't know. I guess after I went to New Mexico.
Q: So, then, you drove to New Mexico; is that correct?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did you have any trouble with the car on the way to New Mexico?
A: Yeah, it broke down.
Q: Near where?
A: Alburquerque; and -- oh, I hitch-hiked into the town of Alburquerque and got a tow truck and they towed the truck -- I mean, the car -- to the gas station and I used the credit card, and they called up on the card and found that it was stolen, so they kept the car in the garage.
I took my stuff out and started hitch-hiking into Taos and I stayed overnight at the Hot Springs in Rancho de Taos.
And, let's see, that morning I think I hitch-hiked up to Questa, where somebody had told me at the Hot Springs Bob was.
Q: Bob, your husband?
A: Yeah.
Let's see, I found Bob and I told him what had happened and, well, he just said that we had to go and get Tanya and he suggested that -- oh, I told him that we just couldn't walk in there because they just wouldn't let me go in and come back out again with Tanya; so he said something about having Susan go in; it is just, you know, a stray girl that popped in.
Q: Who is Susan?
A: Susan, the girl that he was living with; and, I don't know, I guess he decided against that and he told me to come back late and he'd give me, you know, a definite decision on what should happen, I don't know.
So then I went to Joe Sage, who I met before. He was the kind of person who helps other people when they are in trouble.
Q: Where is Joe Sage?
A: He was in Rancho de Taos. I don't remember what the exact conversion was, but I told him that my little girl was back in Los Angeles, that I needed to get her back and -- I don't know, he somehow started questioning me and I couldn't keep backing out of it so I told him vaguely that I knew about the murders.
Then I left. I don't remember where I went. He said he was going to help me, though.
Then at another point I came back and I think before I left I gave him the address of the ranch, or something, I am not sure; but, anyways, at another point he told me that he called the ranch and he talked to Charlie, himself, and Charlie had said something about that I was flipped out, something about my ego wouldn't die, so I couldn't face it so I had to run away or something like that.
Q: Did you eventually return to Los Angeles?
A: Yeah.
Q: Did you fly back to Los Angeles?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Who gave you the money to fly back?
A: Joe did.
Q: Joe Sage?
A: Yes.
Q: What was the purpose of your coming back to Los Angeles?
A: To get an attorney to get my child back.
Q: And when did you come back to Los Angeles?
A: I don't know the time -- not too long after I went back to New Mexico, a week, I don't know; I'm not sure, a few days.
Q: When you arrived in Los Angeles did you contact anyone?
A: Yeah.
Q: Whom did you contact?
A: Well, I went up to Topanga Canyon and I remember Paul Rosenberg who had helped me a year or so before then; and I went to his house, it was about the only person that I could think of that could help, and he was not there but his wife was and she told me that, you know, I could get an attorney and she gave me a name and I called Gary Fleischman.
And I went to his office -- I forget the story that I told him -- but I just told him that these people had my child or something, I'm not sure.
But, before then, at Joe's house I remember calling the family and they told me that she was in jail, I mean, that --
Q: That Tanya was?
A: That the authorities had her; and I think they told me that the Malibu Police, or something like that; so I called the Malibu Police and they referred me to a social worker, who I called after that and made arrangements to meet him, and this same day that I spoke with Gary Fleischman, either before or after, I'm not sure, I saw the social worker, and I went out to see Tanya.
But, anyways, Gary said that he would help me --
Q: Gary is the attorney, Gary Fleischman --
A: Yeah.
Q: -- he represented you during the last trial?
A: Yes.
Q: All right, you may continue.
A: I left Los Angeles and I went back to New Mexico.
Q: Did you get Tanya back?
A: No, I went to see her that day and she was at a foster home and they just wouldn't let me have her, you know -- red tape, or whatever it is, you know, they go through; so it meant that I had to make a court appearance and all this thing.
So, I went back to New Mexico and Gary had my number and everything, and a few weeks later we made a court appearance and I got Tanya back.
Q: You flew back to Los Angeles?
A: Yes.
Q: And you got Tanya back?
A: Yes.
Q: Then what did you and Tanya do?
A: We went back to New Mexico.
Q: Did you hitch-hike?
A: No, we had a two-way ticket.
Q: Okay.
How long did you stay in New Mexico?
A: Oh, probably about a month.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: We hitch-hiked to Florida.
Q: You and Tanya?
A: Yeah.
Q: Hitch-hiked from New Mexico to Florida?
A: Yeah.
Q: Why did you go to Florida?
A: Because my father was there and I wanted to go back east and hitch-hiking was too much.
Q: What city in Florida?
A: Miami.
Q: Did you stay with your father there?
A: Yeah.
Q: For how long?
A: Well, not with him exactly. I stayed in an apartment that him and his girlfriend had rented or something; but he, himself, didn't stay there.
Q: All right.
You stayed there for two weeks?
A: Yeah, about two weeks.
Q: Then where did you go?
A: I stayed at his boss' house for a while, too.
Q: For how long?
A: A week, two weeks, I don't know.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: To New Hampshire, to my mother's house.
Q: Flew there?
A: Yeah.
Q: Your father gave you the money?
A: Yes.
Q: While you were at your mother's home did you tell your mother about these two nights?
A: No.
Q: You didn't tell her at all about these murders?
A: Well, the day that she came to me with the newspaper and my name was, you know, on the paper, about how they were looking for me, I just told her that I didn't kill anybody and that I had seen these things happen, and that's all.
Q: What day was that?
A: The day I gave myself up.
Q: Do you remember the day?
A: Date?
Q: Do you remember the month?
A: It was in December, the first part of December.
Q: Early December 1969?
A: Yeah.
Q: You found out that there was a warrant out for your arrest?
A: Yes.
Q: And where were you when you found this information out?
A: Well, I just rented an apartment maybe a week or so after I got into New Hampshire; and my mother had just given me a radio and I went to sleep that night and before I went to sleep I heard on the radio my name mentioned, that I was being sought for in New Mexico; and I went to sleep that night and the next morning my mother came to me with a newspaper and I just, you know, said, "Well, I have to give myself up and I don't know how to do it."
So, she sort of went through the channels, seeing the police and everything.
Q: So you turned yourself in?
A: Yeah.
Q: To the police in New Hampshire?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you try to run away at all?
A: No.
Q: And then you were immediately extradited back here to Los Angeles?
A: Yes.
Q: And you were in custody then for several months?
A: Yes.
Q: And you have already indicated you testified during the last trial.
A: Mm-hmm.
Q: And you had Angel while you were in custody; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Going back just a moment, you said the car broke down near Alburquerque.
Did you ever contact Mr. Hannum and let him know about his car?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: What did you do?
A: While I was living at Joe's I remember writing a letter addressed to the family and with directions on how to get to the car; and I think it cost twenty or thirty dollars to have it fixed.
I mentioned that and I also enclosed the keys to the car.
Q: You sent it to the family, but was it addressed particularly to Mr. Hannum?
A: I think it was addressed to the family, but I'm not sure.
Q: And you enclosed the keys to the car?
A: Yeah.
Q: Linda, during the period between when you left Spahn Ranch in Hannum's car and early December 1969, when you turned yourself in, did you want to turn yourself in during that period?
A: Yeah, I thought about it.
Q: Why didn't you?
A: I was scared, basically scared about a lot of things. I was pregnant and I had Tanya with me and I was afraid of the police; I was afraid for my life. I was just afraid on all levels.
MR. BUGLIOSI: Thank you.
No further questions.
THE COURT: It is so near our recess hour, would you want to defer your cross-examination?
MR. BUBRICK: Yes, may we, your Honor?
THE COURT: We will recess at this time until 1:30, ladies and gentlemen.
Once more, do not form or express any opinion in this case or do not discuss it among yourselves or with anybody else, and please keep your minds open.
1:30.
(The noon recess was taken until 1:30 p.m. of the same day.)
