11:00 A.M.

(Upon the above date, the defendant appearing in court with his counsel, Karl Ransom, the People being represented by Burton Katz, Deputy District Attorney of Los Angeles County, the following proceedings were had in Department 100 before the Honorable George M. Dell, Judge Presiding:)

THE COURT: We will resume at this time with the matters that went over from the morning calendar. I'll call No. 305, Charles Watson.

I see the defendant is here with his counsel, or at least I should say his tentative counsel, Mr. Ransom, and Mr. Katz is here from the District Attorney's office.

I would like the record to reflect that just prior to our resuming in this court, Mr. Ransom, Mr. Katz had a brief conference in which there was some indication that Mr. Ransom is not going to be representing Mr. Watson.

MR. RANSOM: Yes, your Honor. Arrangements to retain me were not made.

THE COURT: Very well. I'll relieve you of any further responsibility at this time, although, I may ask -- I would like to ask you to stand by for just a few minutes, Mr. Ransom, in the event any question arises.

Let's see, now, Mr. Watson, as I understand it, Mr. Ransom has not been retained to represent you and you are back in the same state that you were when you first appeared before Mr. Ransom made his appearance.

Has any other arrangement been made with any other individual to represent you at this time?

THE DEFENDANT: (No response.)

THE COURT: Were you able to hear what I said?

THE DEFENDANT: (No response.)

THE COURT: I see. Do you find something particularly interesting in my direction, Mr. Watson?

THE DEFENDANT: (No response.)

THE COURT: Well, let the record reflect that the defendant is standing with his hands on the wooden rail in front of him in the prisoner's section. He is staring intently in the Court's direction. He does not respond to any statement or question from the Court. Appears to be some sort of a game on Mr. Watson's part, which he is free to play if he so desires.

I'll relieve you at this time, Mr. Ransom. You are free to leave, if you wish to do so.

I anticipate that the Public Defender will declare a conflict of interest in this case but inasmuch as the defendant apparently does not wish to respond to any questions by the Court I'm unable to ascertain at this time whether he has the financial ability to retain counsel or not. And even though I expect a conflict will be declared, and I anticipate one will be declared at this time pending official confirmation from the Public Defender that he cannot represent Mr. Watson, I will appoint the Public Defender to represent him.

MR. VACCA: Your Honor, in view of the nature of this case may this go over until October 8th for arraignment and plea?

THE COURT: The matter is continued until October the 8th.

I would request this of you, Mr. Vacca. As soon as you ascertain, if, in fact, you do so, that there will be a conflict of interest declared, will you please advise me so that I can communicate with individuals who might be suitable for the purpose of appointment to represent this gentleman.

MR. VACCA: Certainly.

THE COURT: So ordered. That will be on the 9:00 o'clock calendar unless otherwise ordered, October 8th.

We will take a brief recess at this time.

MR. KATZ: Your Honor, I'm wondering if I may approach the bench with counsel?

THE COURT: Yes, of course. Yes, by all means.

MR. KATZ: Your Honor, may I interrupt for just one moment?

THE COURT: Yes, indeed, go ahead.

MR. KATZ: I have another copy of the Indictment. I would like to hand this to the Public Defender.

THE COURT: Would you do so, please, and I believe the transcript should be available for his benefit as well.

MR. KATZ: That is correct. And I believe the clerk presently has the two volumes.

THE COURT: All right. If you can hand those to Mr. Vacca, the record will reflect that that will be done.

The Indictment has been given to counsel and the two volumes are in my chambers. We will get those right now for you, Mr. Vacca. There are the two volumes and the record will reflect that they are being handed by the clerk now to Mr. Vacca.

(Whereupon, the proceedings were continued to Friday, October 8, 1970, in Department 100 for further proceedings.)