• Court of Appeal Requests Answer Regarding Van Houten Parole Reversal

Court of Appeal Requests Answer Regarding Van Houten Parole Reversal

Thursday, October 4th, 2018

Oct. 4 – The 2nd District Court of Appeal has given the Attorney General of California until November 5th to file an opposition to Leslie Van Houten’s latest challenge of Governor Jerry Brown’s reversal of her 2017 parole recommendation.

In June, Superior Court Judge William C. Ryan, upheld Brown’s reversal, stating that the Governor had met all due process requirements

“This court is not entitled to reweigh the evidence before the Governor; rather it is tasked with determining whether the record contains some evidence in support of the Governor’s decision,” wrote Ryan. “This court finds that it does, and that there is a rational nexus between the evidence in the record and the Governor’s determination of [Van Houten’s] current dangerousness.”

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54 Responses to Court of Appeal Requests Answer Regarding Van Houten Parole Reversal

  1. Sasha Musgrave says:

    Leslie is not dangerous anymore!!! She should be freed!

  2. Liana Shakhnazaryan says:

    No No No. She should rot in hell just like her Texan buddy.

  3. Paul says:

    Sasha everyone knows she’s not actually a threat, but everyone tries to make out she is because its the only way they can keep her inside.

  4. Lee says:

    Leslie needs to stay in prison for the rest of her life. She forfeited her life when she made the decision to join her friends in a murder rampage. The reasons or motives do not matter. Her age doesn’t matter either. The fact that other murderers have been let out doesn’t matter. She was part of a domestic terrorist organization. It’s that simple. I don’t see people foaming at the mouth to advocate on behalf of the others as much as Leslie. Why is that? They have this notion that Leslie is still this good looking, young girl who simply just made a teenage indiscretion and she has paid for her crime. I bet if she was fat & ugly back then, nobody, especially these men would care. It’s like they fantasize about the Leslie of 1969, therefore, she should get out, and her victims families should just get over it.

  5. Paul says:

    Lee the motives and reasons do matter, especially when it comes to determining her suitability at her parole hearings. It does matter that killers are released within 10 years of serving their sentence for murder because it indicates how the notoriety of this case has held Leslie back for so long. She has done everything in her ability to fit the parole criteria which fits into her sentence, whether you like it or not, Leslie deserves parole and the board agrees. She also fits the elderly parole category and the youth offender category so yes, her age does matter.

  6. Cybele Moon says:

    Lee I think you are right about the Leslie thing. She seemed to garner the most fascination for the reasons you stated, a middle class, very bright girl from a relatively normal family , a home coming princess, someone who could have made something with her life. It was like what the h— happened!! oh it must have been a youthful mistake because she was misguided etc etc.

    Paul, yes the case was notorious unfortunately for Leslie. It was shocking, it was heinous, it was about a social experiment gone horrible wrong ( hippies and communes, alternate lifestyle vs materialism and middle class etc). It was another story of division in America. I don’t agree with any murderers being let out after 10 years. We have to remember that this was not a crime of passion or committed during the chaos of a robbery-this was much worse than that.

  7. Cybele Moon says:

    PS: do I think she has a chance of being released at last? I do. Do I think she should be released? I don’t. I think all of them should serve life without parole and not because of the notoriety but because I believe that should happen to any who have committed this type of cold, senseless and savage murders. Apparently this crime terrified the citizens of LA ( and many more) for a very long time afterward.

  8. Paul says:

    I don’t see why her suitability should be determined on the fear that the murders had on LA when the crimes was committed. Yes it wasn’t a crime of passion but it wasn’t the same as a person who kills someone within their normal mind set, murder and rape is one in particular. Whether you think they should of got life without parole really does matter now because that’s not the case, we are talking about life with the chance of parole, and Leslie is by far committed to the requirements needed to earn it.

  9. Paul says:

    *DOESN’T matter

  10. Cybele Moon says:

    Hey Paul, you always bring up something else to think about but “normal mindset?” Does anyone who “deliberately sets out to murder have a “normal mindset?” I don’t think so!

  11. Paul says:

    Cybele, you do know there’s a difference in these two types of cases, when your killing someone to remove the evidence after rape is different than killing under the indoctrination of an ideology and influenced by large usage of hallucination drugs, your made to think differently from how we think about subjects like death.

  12. Cybele Moon says:

    I know you are willing to excuse their mindset Paul but I just don’t feel that way. They knew right from wrong according to society whether they thought death didn’t matter or not.

    Why did they then kill their victims gruesomely and not quickly if it was just to free them from this mortal coil. Because It was to strike fear into others. Therefore Debra calling them domestic terrorists has truth to it.

    There are a few others who kill like that, serial killers, some satanist types and yes the argument might be made that they are abnormal, etc etc.

  13. Paul says:

    I know you like to discredit this part of my argument especially, but it is true nevertheless. Leslie always said she didn’t want to make them suffer and never wished to kill unless vital to the cause. I know I’m not excusing her involvement but I also know this matters and weighs heavily on her right to parole. Yes, she knew society’s take on death and murder, but the ideology she believed in didn’t function the same way, it was treated differently, they thought society’s version was wrong, and that Manson knew what reality actually was because he was a “god-type” figure to them. Again, there is a difference between murder by someone who has become indoctrinated by a philosophy that claimed that the murders had to occur whether you wanted it or not to someone who kills to avoid prison, that is someone who knows what there doing in reality.

  14. Cybele Moon says:

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that Paul.
    If as you say those mitigating circumstance mattered in her plight to be released over the years, then I think she would have been released long ago. Yes, the majority of public opinion has been against it which I’m sure has played into the decision scenario of governors and judges.

  15. Paul says:

    Again, the notoriety has impacted all these factors, its all corrupted but obviously the people of California are fine with the fact that the leaders are jeopardising their system for their own moral standards and public pressure, yet there are far many cases similar to Leslie’s in terms of gravity of participation to murder and people don’t think about any of them. I’ve said it before, you can’t single out Leslie because of the case attention, its ridiculous and biased to her rights.

  16. NoJusticeNoPeace says:

    Paul, could you please name the cases you refer to that are just like LVH and the murdrerers have been released on parole? This is a consistent point of yours and I’d like to know exactly what cases over the span of 49 years you are speaking about. Just the facts, thanks.

  17. Paul says:

    Statistics show that Jerry Brown has released about 80 percent of convicted murderers eligible for parole in California. In a book account by Karlene Faith stated that two women convicted of murder serving their sentence in the same jail as the girls were released in the late 70s, and that’s because no one knew about it. They have released a lot of lifers for murder to prevent overcrowding in prison but there keeping the notorious killers inside because people will be aware of these people getting paroled because it gets a lot of media attention.

  18. NoJusticeNoPeace says:

    Just asking you for links to these facts you continually espouse on behalf of LVH as a prominent reason for her release.

    Link the facts. Do my homework, since you are so convinced of these stats, I’d like to see what you see, view, reason and form the opinion you have.

    I know it’s asking much, but then again, you seem to know exactly what those fact are, so I’m asking for a jump frog. Thanks again.

  19. Paul says:

    Its online, for some reason it won’t let me send links on here so look it up.

  20. Paul says:

    Don’t matter, its there now

  21. Cybele Moon says:

    Paul, I think Nojustice would like to know if the details of the individual lifers/murderers released crimes were equivalent to what the Manson family did. Correct me if I’m wrong. That also interests me as well.
    I know in Canada there are a few murderers whose crimes preclude them from ever being released.

  22. Cybele Moon says:

    PS: Ok read it. Very interesting. However, I see that the victim’s rights group disagree with these releases.
    I find it interesting too this political pawn or prisoner stuff. I would think that those who commit these sort of crimes have gall to consider themselves political prisoners because they don’t get released when they feel they should. After all, they forfeited the rights most of us have by committing those kind of crimes. Surely they must understand how most law abiding citizens feel about them. However, we live in a society today that seems to demand it’s individual rights above all else.

  23. Paul says:

    Cybele you know this isn’t just about feeling she should be out, she is a prisoner of her own notoriety, at this point is a political matter on the actions by Jerry Brown, I know you admitted that before. “After all, they forfeited the rights most of us have by committing those kind of crimes” yes they forfeited the same rights but their rights still say they can be paroled if found suitable and that still stands to this day, and Leslie has met the criteria for decades and has been approved by the board twice and will probably be approved again in January. Its a dangerous pattern by a corrupt government who give into cries by public, most inaccurate at that.

  24. Paul says:

    Of course the victims rights group disagree but what’s that got to do with anything, Debra Tate is one of those people, all there doing is trying to put pressure on the government by creating fear into the public to get their way rather than change any laws or legislations. They only care about facts and rights when it suites them, and the governor shouldn’t let them get away with it.

  25. Paul says:

    “I think Nojustice would like to know if the details of the individual lifers/murderers released crimes were equivalent to what the Manson family did” first of all its what Leslie did, not the family as a whole, I’ve said this before, you have to stop trying to press every action of the murders with Leslie. Think we both have good knowledge of Leslies personal actions were and despite how horrific they were, they were not as heinous that it fits under Lawrence that she will never be suitable for parole. I also mentioned recently of a man who was convicted of murdering his wife and only served 10 years for good behaviour, it happens all the time but you just aren’t seeing it, so many killers are on the streets and you don’t know it, and I can guarantee Leslie is more safe in society than a lot of killers who are paroled.

  26. Cybele Moon says:

    Paul you probably are correct to her not posing a danger today. I do give you that. However, as Leslie was a member of the “notorious” family and devoted to Manson it’s hard to separate her that way though I do get your point. Listen, if she gets released I am not going to wish her ill that way either. I just feel for the families of the victims and personally wish the law had said no parole. I know some murderers get concurrent life sentences which preclude their release.

  27. Paul says:

    Well life without parole is not what they have so that doesn’t matter, the law states all of the family are allowed to seek parole, and as long as they meet the criteria, they have to be paroled. Either change the legislations on parole grants (if possible for already existing sentences with the chance of parole) or follow the law as it stands, not try to manipulate the system like Debra Tate who ironically said she’s “trying to point out the holes in our system”, she’s the one trying to expand these holes.

  28. JOHN LUCKETT says:


  29. Paul says:

    I would have no issue living next door to Leslie, she’s not a danger and hasn’t been for a long time. All these questions are immaterial because “how would I like the Manson family to my family and friend” isn’t accountable in the parole criteria.

  30. Cybele Moon says:

    John and Paul, Although I feel LVH is “probably” not dangerous, the woman has been living in prison which is considered a controlled environment, for almost 50 years, not outside in the world where the stresses and stimulus can be overwhelming even to those of us who have never committed a violent act. When all is said and done this woman was susceptible to the mind control Manson practiced, which was not just the type where religious groups try to brainwash people into praise the lord and give up all your worldly goods and connections, but to a very violent and anti social life style. I just watched a recent program which implied that there may be many more unsolved murders that might be connected to the Manson family. No matter how small I would still have some reservations about any of them if freed.

  31. Cybele Moon says:

    PS: Paul I know you will say that it didn’t start out that way in the commune. But I beg to differ on that. The women had to eat after the dogs ate, and Manson beat some of the women and that was all from the get go, not to mention the thieving etc. So don’t say Charlie was all peace and love at the start. I just don’t buy it.

  32. Paul says:

    Cybele first of all, Leslie has never been implemented in any of these unsolved murders which we have been hearing about for years now. Leslie admitted to a murder she didn’t commit so I doubt she would lie about she didn’t commit because she evidently wasn’t trying to save her own skin then. Charlie did portray love and affection and I stick by that, the atmosphere at the ranch changed gradually overtime, yes he got physical but we here these cases all the time, a lot of women end up in abusing relationships and don’t leave it for reasons I don’t know but it happens all the time. Leslie will be fine on the outside, she’s made strong plans for parole with job offers and great support from outsiders. If you are going to doubt her suitability, your not looking hard enough at her progression or even reading her parole transcripts.

  33. Paul says:

    “living in prison which is considered a controlled environment, for almost 50 years, not outside in the world where the stresses and stimulus can be overwhelming”, I here this argument a lot but really its not that good specially in Leslie’s case. Is this meant to be your argument for her unsuitability, you have stress in prison especially, a lot of bad things happen in prison and prisoners will struggle to avoid getting in the middle of it, and the fact that Leslie has avoided getting involved in any of this for almost 50 years says a lot about her character today. There are criminals of all magnitude in prison and guards aren’t always able to prevent all the dangers that can occur in prison grounds, its a tough life in prison, its not as simple and easy to avoid trouble as Debra Tate or you suggest.

  34. Cybele Moon says:

    true Paul but it’s still a controlled environment. You eat sleep etc etc in a regimented manner. Yes she has kept out of trouble there. However, to me her character will always be suspect and that unfortunately is due to the choices she made which led to such a horrifying outcome. I didn’t say Leslie was involved in other murders but she certainly saw enough and if not saw then heard enough to give someone second thoughts. Charlie was abusive toward women from the get go and he did not preach love at all. He was for example a racist and he said plenty about that apparently. He certainly wasn’t like the other gurus of the day who followed Buddhist or Eastern thought and disciplines and who did preach love, equality and peace. No Paul, there was enough warnings there to keep most people from following Manson as many came or listened to Charlie spout but only a few actually joined. But it is a great mystery as to why. I suppose one that will never be explained fully.

  35. Paul says:

    There was not enough warning to predict what would happen, there were a lot of people in that family, and only a few didn’t follow including Hoyt and Kasabian who were only with the family for a small amount of time. Many of the family believed in the ideology and some even would have or did commit murder for it, Debra Tate’s statement that Manson was skilled at manipulating already sociopathic minds is weak, he did not just coincidently collect 30 odd sociopaths who he thought would carry out his deed. Leslie has kept out of trouble, she doesn’t need a strict structure to live in anymore and hasn’t for decades, she would of shown it otherwise, this really is a poor argument on Tate’s side, even you are trying to suggest it doesn’t really add up. I have to refer again to the fact Leslie was on bail for six months in the 70s and lived like a typical citizens, and this was only about 7 years after Manson and the murders. Leslie is trying to get parole eagerly, and has tried her damn hardest to achieve it, do you really think she is going to jeopardise it.

  36. NoJusticeNoPeace says:

    Sorry for my late reply. I can see where Paul may feel as he does with the links he has provided. However it does not negate a single thing in my mind.

    When you look at the the record of LVH’s attempts to GET OUT of prison it is undeniable that in itself is enough for one to say she has never accepted her own role, rather she places blame on Manson’s so called control. And please don’t bark back by saying ‘but it is her right’ excuse. Victims also have rights.

    Ok, on the face of it lets say LVH was under some kind of drug induced, sexed up, lyrical guitar playing wank by a bon fire guru. The question is when does his influence end and her responsibility begin?

    You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say LVH was under maniacal control when she asked to go the next night. It defies logic.

    LVH acceptance of guilt is another have your cake and eat it too. Her supposed acceptance of her own actions is belittled by her reliance on the Manson factor to get out of prison. So which is it? Was she a dead-brained zombie Mansonite with nary an ounce of personal control or is she a cunning deviant who just wanted to kill TWO people after finding out about the Tate massacre the night before?

    One MUST go by the actual court records and not by ‘because in my gut I know’ or the ‘look at these stats that say poor LVH is a political prisoner.’

    The record is accurate. The record is reflective. The inmate will always skirt around it. Their lawyers will always have another motion, another reason, another and another and another.

    LVH has had more litigation than any other Manson Family associate. Each time, the story changes. And no, I’m not going to lay it on a silver platter for anyone, do your own research. LVH’s story, involvement, belief, manipulations are ever evolving to meet the criteria for freedom.

    As far as I’m concerned, if I have to err on the side of caution, it will be with the People and not the person who devalued not only their own life, but of the ones she killed with her own hand.

  37. Cybele Moon says:

    I can see where No Justice’s is coming from and whether or not Leslie is now suitable for parole I say again Manson was not a peacenik and whether or not they saw murders in the future I meant there was plenty of warning signs indicating things were going in a negative direction. People did leave the family and many saw that things were not good. So- Leslie behaved herself for 6 months while she was waiting for a re trial. She is no dummy but I don’t find that an endorsement. She may do fine now as an elderly woman on parole. I’m sure she has changed after all this time but it’s not Debra Tate’s or the other victim’s family member’s fault that they do not support her freedom. Leslie ruined her own life and she owes it to society to try to make up for the evil perpetrated. She volunteered to participate on that second night of murder. She must find her own redemption of course.

  38. Paul says:

    NoJusticeNoPeace Of course she has accepted her role but she can’t deny Manson influence because the she will be lying. if where talking about rights, she in her own right she of been paroled, and the family’s rights are irrelevant to this matter. Leslie accounts of the crimes have been rather consistent throughout the years and has not made any apparent contradictions in her story. You like many others like to discredit the indoctrination and control Manson had over the family in more ways than one, and while I don’t excuse Leslies own actions, its an important factor and always will be. “Was she a dead-brained zombie Mansonite with nary an ounce of personal control or is she a cunning deviant who just wanted to kill TWO people”, I’ve said this repeatedly over and over, Leslie wanted to go along that night because she believed completely in Manson’s philosophy, but she always said since the beginning she never wanted to kill unless it had to happen, she told Manson this herself. So Leslie has been in prison for almost half a century, and since the around the 80s she’s met the parole criteria and only recently been granted by the parole board a couple of years ago only for Brown to reject it. His reasons to reverse it are weak at best, and its obvious he will find any excuse he can to reject it, and evidently this is because of the public reaction, its a political trick therefore Leslie has become a political prisoner.

  39. Paul says:

    Cybele Moon I don’t care for Debra Tate to agree with her parole but her attempts to portray Leslie as this dangerous sociopath is ridiculous and completely false, and I think she herself knows it. She says she’s advocating for changes in the justice system and parole law but all she does in reality is try to advocate for a corrupt system. She tries to pressure the governor into satisfying the general public, most who don’t even know the case that well.

  40. Paul says:

    NoJusticeNoPeace You imply Leslie is not being honest, but it seems to me that she’s been very honest, she takes responsibility for her actions but she is still honest in talking about Manson’s influence and indoctrination, you can’t avoid that anyway, but your implying she should not use Manson influence into her case but then she’s lying in that sense so she you either want her to be honest and admitted Manson’s control or lie and take all the blame on herself, you can’t have it both ways here either. Many killers are getting paroled every year but why has Leslie not, because the notoriety, I’ve had to say if again and again but its true so I will continue to state it. Brown has released a lot of murders and it is evidence the reason why he hasn’t parole Leslie is because of the damage that it can do to his reputation. Leslie is often put at fault for the actions of her co-defendants, even Brown did this himself instead of deciding her suitability based on her own personal involvement.

  41. NoJusticeNoPeace says:

    Motive is not necessary to prove the crime but this case demanded one. If you strip away the ‘why’ you still have LVH murdering two people in a home invasion.

    Since her own actions during her trials cemented her fate, she had to evolve to meet the criteria for freedom. She then becomes the political piggy in her starched white shirt, playing the game for the chance to get out on parole. I’m sure the irony is bitter to her.
    And no, I don’t believe her. Why should she get the benefit of the doubt? Prison is punishment first and foremost. Reclamation is impossible in her case. As the current law allows the brutality of the crime to be a sole reason for Gov. Brown’s reversing granted parole, her supporters call her a political prisoner.

    I say she reaps what she has sown. Her break came when the death penalty was removed in 1972. Her crimes have been litigated, her attempts at parole have evolved to fit whatever she needs to be to get out. She has not, in my opinion, ever accepted what she has done. She minimizes her involvement, blames Manson for her actions, plays the victim wronged by society. She can keep collecting the free education degrees. It will never erase her crimes, nor the absolute brutality and fear she instilled.

    I sincerely hope she receives a toe tag parole.

  42. Paul says:

    No Prison is for rehabilitation and as long as Leslie is deemed suitable she should be paroled, and many have been, and that’s were the political prisoner comes in. Her own actions were not as horrendous that is comes under Lawrence. You, like Brown are putting her crime partners actions on Leslie as well, and this is not a good enough excuse to keep her behind bars. Leslie is not serving death commuted to life, she is serving a completely new sentence from her 1978 trial were the death penalty wasn’t involved at all. She is serving life with the chance of parole which she has the right to receive as long as she fits the parole criteria, which includes no violations, participating in rehabilitation groups, educational achievements etc., and she has done all of this.

  43. Cybele Moon says:

    This is my last comment because Paul whatever is said you come back with your own reasoning which though I comprehend your stand about the legalities of parole I find a bit suspect in some instances e.g. “Leslie wanted to go along that night because she believed completely in Manson’s philosophy, but she always said since the beginning she never wanted to kill unless it had to happen.” What is that supposed to mean? Is that the best excuse she can come up with it ( or you). In light of the fact that she did believe in Manson and she did participate in a very gruesome scenario whether she wanted to kill or not seems meaningless as to her level of guilt! She volunteered to go along knowingly. And yes, the crime was that horrendous (Lawrence) and she was part of it all and didn’t try to stop it. And as for people not knowing the facts of the case, who knows the whole story unless you were there, only then could you say with certainty whether the accused lied or told the truth. Yet the story is well known and the dead are still dead.

  44. Paul says:

    Cybele these aren’t excuses but these are relevant points, it tells us that Leslie did not go to kill for the sheer pleasure of murdering a human being, it is a very important part of the case and I don’t understand why you can’t see that either. Of course it matters especially when deciding her suitability in the parole hearing, there is a difference between whether she wanted to kill or not and for what reasons, its makes a difference when considering her parole. You did it again “The crime”, your putting everything on Leslie again, I guess that’s because you know Leslie’s actions don’t fit under Lawrence themselves, your not the only one to do that but it doesn’t work.

  45. Cybele Moon says:

    Paul, I do see that, but are you telling me then that she didn’t want to kill out of pleasure, but the rest of them went for the sheer pleasure of murdering? The devil made me do it. It’s like mob mentality-we didn’t intend to kill but we all got caught up in the blood lust. Yes, we speak of the crime! because that is what is remembered. At any rate I agree your legal points and nuances do play into the parole game. Whether parole serves justice or not is another matter. But it’s the system we have as imperfect as it is. Yes, morally I feel justified to say that none of them should get parole.

  46. Paul says:

    None went for sheer pleasure but you implied that the details of why Leslie killed are irrelevant but if she did do it for pleasure and the rest, we would be having a completely different conversation now. Of course we speak of the crime, but you cannot put everything that happened on Leslie as a form of making her sound like a still dangerous sociopath, Debra Tate tries this trick and you seem to be doing the same. I didn’t think you would try to use this tactic actually. Whatever your moral opinions are is your own moral opinions, but the law doesn’t function like that, or at least its not meant to, that’s why we have system. You say its imperfect, trying to manipulate the leaders to satisfying your moral standards is not helping make it any better, its double standards.

  47. Cybele Moon says:

    It’s been a good discussion. I don’t know how LVH’s mind works. Yes, she has done well in prison but I don’t think everyone wants to give her a gold star for it. She can never repay what she helped steal from two innocent people. I don’t think I said she is a sociopath but I am saying that I feel the crime as a whole ( in which she helped murder people) was bad enough that it would warrant a life in prison. Obviously it’s not the sentence they gave them after the death penalty was taken off the books which I always thought was very odd. Death became life with parole after 7 years! That never made sense. There it is. Perhaps public opinion may sway the system who knows. Enough people do complain and I don’t consider that a manipulation. ( Victim’s rights groups etc).

  48. Paul says:

    I know she can’t repay for her actions, I’ve said that myself more than once. Again, you can’t keep Leslie in prison for the actions committed by her co-defendants. Again Leslie is not serving the sentence that initially gave her death, its a completely different sentence were she was eligible for parole from the start and had her first parole hearing the following year. Its a gold star ticket to her parole however, since she had done everything the board has asked to do in order to earn it, even though they found some sort of excuse to reject it over and over, it was producing false hope on their side. If you trying to pressure the governor to keep a prisoner in jail who has meet the criteria because of your moral standards that is an attempt to create a corrupt system.

  49. Missy says:

    There Should be No questions Here on her release! The Parole Board has Granted LVH parole more then Once , Which Tells Me That the Board Given they have all the Facts on her incarceration, Believe That LVH is ready and Can be a Productive Member of Society, and given everything she has Dome to Help herself and all the other women who have to serve time , to insure they Dont Return! The only Issue standing in Her way is Governor Brown , and The “Manson” name! We have a court system that is Suppose to do what?? We Sens people to Prison for 2 things, 1. Punishment 2. REHABILITATION. If we have a Justice system that locks people up and just forget about them , HOW OUR WE HELPING ANYONE? LVH Has Shown That She Is/Has Been Rehabilitated and Should Be Granted a Chance To be a Productive member of Society! Plus remember She was a Teenager when she Commited her crime! #FreeLeslieVanHouten

  50. Cybele Moon says:

    I’m sure at 70 years old she is probably not a danger anymore. How productive she can be at this late date is debatable. Who knows. She will however, always be reviled along with the Manson name by many who feel that they all should have been given life without parole. You say along with other supporters to remember she was only a teenager when she committed the crime. Well this wasn’t stealing a car, shoplifting or other misdemeanors. There are other teenagers who have murdered in this gruesome manner and most are labeled psychopaths. This may not be Leslie’s case but there are still going to be a lot of people who would prefer her to stay where she is and yes it is the Manson name – but wait – she was a devoted member at the time was she not?

  51. Paul says:

    Cybele it doesn’t matter how productive she can be now, that is not a good reason to deny her suitability I’ve said before she had had job offers and much support when she is paroled. “You say along with other supporters to remember she was only a teenager when she committed the crime. Well this wasn’t stealing a car, shoplifting or other misdemeanours”, what are trying to say here, who is mitigating the crimes?, we know she acted in an awful crime and needed to be brought to justice, which she has and now deemed suitable to return to society now, that’s that. It doesn’t matter whether people want her to stay in prison, that is not a good enough reason either, I’ve told you before Cybele there are many killers walking the streets on parole today but your singling out Leslie because of the attention her case gets.

  52. Cybele Moon says:

    Paul, that wasn’t my point to Missy. You have made your point about suitability according to law. But I kind of laugh when it’s pointed out that she was “only a teenager” ( poor and misguided) when these (horrifying) murders occurred. Yes this was a high profile case due to many of the circumstances which is why people remember it but I don’t agree with your argument that other killers are walking the streets as a reason all killers should get out. If Leslie has met the suitability requirements then by law she should get out. I accept that but I am still not a supporter of this or of any of the Manson family group. I will give you that she her participation may have been less ( if that version is to be believed) than the others though. You make a good lawyer!! 🙂

  53. Paul says:

    Well as she fits under the youthful offenders act, that actually does make a difference to her case. Well if you think Leslie should be kept in prison even though killers are getting out repeatedly on parole than your basically suggesting you too are okay with making a corrupt system if certain killers are treated one way against others, and just because their killers does not give you the right to take away their rights they have as prisoners with the chance of parole. I know you don’t want her out and that’s fine, but its the governor who can’t allow this sort of influence to impact the job he has been appointed to do by law. There’s a lot of hypocrisy around this case especially by people who are against her parole, and while I do understand why they feel that way, you can’t justify keeping Leslie a prisoner at this point with all the circumstances as they are now.

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