Audio Archives: Manson & Hypnotism

Saturday, April 6th, 2013

Apr. 8 – For this installment of the Audio Archives series, we will listen in on conversations with a pair of doctors regarding the power of hypnosis. This tape was not marked so I don’t know the names of the doctors, the interviewer or whether he is from LAPD or the District Attorney’s office. The tape was also not dated, but the conversation seems to indicate it took place in December of 1969, shortly after the indictments. At that time, Susan Atkins’ attorney Richard Caballero was telling the press that Susan was among several followers who were under Charles Manson’s “hypnotic spell.”

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21 Responses to Audio Archives: Manson & Hypnotism

  1. johnnyseattle says:

    Looking forward to the Manson and Hypnotism tape.

    BTW, after reading Shreck’s magnum opus I always thought it interesting the Cabellero/Caruso connection. Richard Caballero was Sadie’s first lawyer. Joel Rosteau‘s attorney was Paul Caruso and, if I am not mistaken per Shreck he was also the attorney for Billy Doyle and Pic Dawson.

    Amazing that all these folks were able to avail themselves of such a high caliber Beverly Hills Law Firm albeit at pro bono rates.

    Anywhooo, looking forward to the discourse on Manson the Hip Hypnotist…(to borrow a 60’s Shtick).

    But maybe I am all wet ( a common condition for someone from Seattle).

  2. cielodrive.com says:

    I’ve never really understood people’s fascination with Joel Rostau

    • johnnyseattle says:

      Bo, you should give Shreck’s latest book a read and you’ll find a lot more about Rostau. Of course, you have to take the leap that Shreck isn’t who he was 20 plus years ago and that as he recognizes back then, ‘i was an arrogant young man.’ Pretty fascinating stuff. Brian’s interview of Shreck should dispel any doubts about the seriousness of the book (you won’t be reading this and saying this is pro-Manson) and you can download the podcast here: (shows 2, 3, and 4).

      And of course, just a few weeks ago on his radio show Brian’s recent guest -Garretson’s friend who lived in the guesthouse with her boyfriend/fiancee Darrel Kister- Patty when asked about Rostau out of the blue immediately came up with ‘Smokey Joe’ as in he was the one who always brought the drugs to the party. This was a guest Brian had to find and convince to come on the show, she isn’t someone putting herself out there willingly.

      • cielodrive.com says:

        From my experience with researching this stuff, the people who do talk are very often on the fringes and in many cases embellish their stories to make them more impressive. These people will usually discredit themselves the more you talk to them because eventually they will tell you something that you know for a fact is not true or even possible.

        Now I’m not saying this is the case with Garretson’s friend, I haven’t even heard this interview. But, there are some big red flags just from what you’ve told me.

        I do have Schreck’s book and I’ve read just about everything regarding Joel’s connection to this case.

        In reality Joel is connected to Jay Sebring in a homicide report but there is absolutely no connection made between Joel and the Manson family.

        • johnnyseattle says:

          i hope you have read the entire book. it really builds upon itself and if you just sample in and out the whole impact of the book is missed. just my opinion.

        • Brian Davis says:

          “…but there is absolutely no connection made between Joel and the Manson family.”

          Rostau – Tex Watson is the connection and I would assume Manson knew who Rostau was.

  3. johnnyseattle says:

    Bo, this particular guest was dug up by Brian. She was talking off of memory and did have a mistake in terms of dates, etc. But, that actually showed me she wasn’t someone who was ‘a wannabe’ rather someone who had some experiences that she reluctantly shared.
    she wasn’t anyone who in any sense of the word was talking in order to make a name, etc. This was a reluctant find, just ask LC she was there when Brian made the initial contact. This lady was contacted out of the blue. I do hope you get to hear the interview. She did say that she and her fiance were there off and on up to the time of the murders. I wasn’t there so I can’t say she was telling the truth or not but she rang true and when Brian brought up the name of Rostau she pauses and responds in a way that sounds very convincing.
    As for Rostau, doesn’t it intrigue you at all the connection with the law firm? Doesn’t the April Drug burn intrigue you at all?
    I would really hesitate to make sweeping statements in this case. Just my humble opinion, as I said before being from Seattle I can be all wet.
    Looking forward to the Manson hypnotist discussion.

  4. cielodrive.com says:

    Look I’m not making any sweeping statements, I’m just talking about my own experiences with people. I’m always open minded but at the same time always very skeptical. There are years of vague ill-informed gossip that with time eventually gets reported as fact. Combine that with people’s shaky memories, and things get really confused.

    There’s a massive list of things that intrigue me about this case, but Joel Rostau isn’t even close to being on it. I’ve never seen any creditable information that connects him to the family.

    • johnnyseattle says:

      This is probably where we differ on this case and I am probably all wet in that I am taking a broader look then just ‘The Family.’ As such, Rostau becomes very fascinating in my opinion. If one wants to look just at The Family and Rostau I can see your point.

      But fully agreed that it is a good practice to remain skeptical to avoid ill informed gossip being reported as fact. For example, despite it being widely reported in books like Helter Skelter, etc you were the first to clear up the Morehouse/Guesthouse issue.

      I agree with Rob, this interview sounds like something one can hear on Ghost to Ghost Radio. But it is a good listen and I am very happy to have you make this available.

      Thank you Bo.

  5. Rob says:

    Who is interviewing these Doctors? It feels it is on a talk radio show similar to Coast to Coast AM I have listened to for many years now.

  6. Silentseason says:

    I would tend to agree with Cielo’s view that the fringe elements of TLB are worth a listen to, but not much else. Take Schreck for example; here is someone for unknown reasons gets his sense of importance by attaching himself to Manson. He gives no concrete evidence and in the interview gave flat out false statements. Whether they are an active member of Manson’s con or just fools doesn’t matter as they readily seek out these sickos to pump themselves up.

    If they could give definitive evidence I would gladly change my opinion but thus far no one has successfully deflated Helter Skelter as the main motive.

    • Helter Schmelter says:

      I don’t think there will ever be a new “smoking gun,” because “hard” evidence is simply not likely to turn up. Therefore, short of Bugliosi ever admitting he pursued the Helter Skelter angle to the intentional exclusion of others, that theory will ALWAYS be the DEFAULT motive. It’s crazy, zany, wacky and scary. It kept Hollywood relatively unscathed and the victims more sympathetic, making the jurors more likely to convict.
      Schreck’s book is indeed a great read, and while he has made a name for himself by attaching himself to Manson, that perspective and its from-the-source narrative adds needed personal insight to this whole thing. It is something which would only otherwise be dismissed if came from Manson’s mouth in a televised format. I do believe parts of HS are true, because from the girls perspective early on, that’s all they knew.
      Overall, I’m sure Charlie, Tex, Bruce and Bobby all had their individual scores to settle, their own business dealings outside of Spahn ranch – all which led to a convergence of events that resulted in murder. I believe Joel Rostau was a major player in this and his connections to Cielo were known by Tex. Manson was, in my opinion, the undisputed svengali to the girls and leader/helper to the guys. His specific knowledge of everything was, I think, sort of like Nixon’s in Watergate: he created the atmosphere and worldview in which his people were allowed to percolate with their entanglements. He stirred the counter-culture pot of sinister hatred toward traditional values and the establishment, all while his insecure femme fatales bowed and deferred to his visions. Whether he specifically “ordered” the murders or “choreographed” the specific events as they unfolded will always be a burning question, but I fall on the side of No, he didn’t.
      Did he allow it and approve of it? More likely.
      His powers of persuasion and his odd, phony wisdom proved dangerous, as he was able to manipulate young people to his worldview, making them drop their pasts into a garbage can and prepare them for battle. I don’t think even Manson understood the effectiveness of his own power on those young people.

  7. Gina says:

    Rostau only existed as far as public records go, in the media. I’m not saying he wasn’t a real person, but there are no records (birth, death, social security death, marriage, divorce, nothing on the man) I ran his name on archives.com and the only thing that comes up is 57 news reports, none connecting him to Cielo or the people there. The first report on him in the news was about his apartment being robbed of jewelry, most of the rest of the articles are about his body being found in the trunk of a car at LaGuardia airport. I take it back there is a section called living people search and there is only 1 result (another oddity) that result shows him living on Larabee in Los Angeles. This means that there were no events in his life ie: Death, change of address to cancel out that record. He’s like a phantom as far as public records go, and I think that a lot of answers could be found through information yet to be found on Joel Rostau.

    • DebS says:

      Gina, there is a death record for Rostau at Ancestry JOWBR.

      JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial Registry (JOWBR) about Joel J. Rostau
      Name: Joel J. Rostau
      Birth Date: abt 1936
      Death Date: 26 May 1970
      Age at Death: 34
      Burial Plot: Section 51A, Grave 3
      Burial Place: West Roxbury, Massachusetts, United States
      Comments: Funeral Home: Levine
      Cemetery: Adath Jeshurun
      Cemetery Address: Grove Street
      Cemetery Burials: 4283

  8. Gina says:

    I think these conversations are silly. Sadie came and went when she wanted to, none of these people were tethered to Manson. They all did what they wanted and Tex wanted to kill people and he did.

    • johnnyseattle says:

      That’s interesting. Especially when you consider that after they got caught, the best ‘play’ for the actual killers was to say they were under orders from a Svengali type who used drugs/brainwashing techniques to make them do these horrible things.
      Not saying Charlie is an innocent lamb here, just noting that the ones doing the knifing/shooting are culpable for their own actions.

  9. Peter says:

    It’s interesting that one of the interviewers major concerns appears to be that Manson could hypnotize a jury if he were allowed to represent himself during the trial.

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